Coronavirus Thread

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

 

At which point they'll be another system implemented. They must think we're bloody stupid, just be honest for Gods sake!

[Leicester_Loyal]

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1332635452642357249?s=20

 

[StanSP]

I don't get how a date - even Easter 4 and a bit months away - can be given for 'life to go back to normal'. 

 

Mainly because of how the government have handled it so far gives me little faith they can stick to the dates suggested ('world-beating test and trace system'...) but I think it's far too ambitious to give a date like that given that the virus is barely under control at the moment...

[Guest StevieLynex]

13 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I don't get how a date - even Easter 4 and a bit months away - can be given for 'life to go back to normal'. 

 

Mainly because of how the government have handled it so far gives me little faith they can stick to the dates suggested ('world-beating test and trace system'...) but I think it's far too ambitious to give a date like that given that the virus is barely under control at the moment...

Vaccinations for the general public are unlikely to begin until January. With two vaccinations being required, it will probably take to early Summer before the over 50s are vaccinated. Will they decide to vaccinate younger people as well? If so, that will take us through to the Autumn at least. I doubt that anyone can give any assurances that 'life will return to normal'. No-one knows - will the vaccine be effective? Will it make a difference? Does everyone need to stay at home until the vaccination campaign is completed?

[reynard]

11 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Has the government stopped cancer diagnosis as part of lockdown?

Not this lockdown but it certainly came to pretty much a halt in April/May. This was certainly our experience. My wife was diagnosed with cancer in July and it would have helped to have had an earlier diagnosis but that was not possible. However, I can only speak for Leicester, but cancer treatment has been going on since July/August and in fact my wife has had three operations in that time. The service was absolutely fantastic though I was not allowed to visit her on each occasion or to attend any of her diognastic biopsies etc. Obviously things are not completely normal but other than the fact that initial biopsises could only be done 1 day a week instead of three and that instead of visiting the consultant to get your results that is done by phone call we haven't noticed much difference. It is a far different picture to what was going on in April/May.

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

 

At which point they'll be another system implemented. They must think we're bloody stupid, just be honest for Gods sake!

I could’ve predicted it would end in tiers.

[WigstonWanderer]

45 minutes ago, reynard said:

Not this lockdown but it certainly came to pretty much a halt in April/May. This was certainly our experience. My wife was diagnosed with cancer in July and it would have helped to have had an earlier diagnosis but that was not possible. However, I can only speak for Leicester, but cancer treatment has been going on since July/August and in fact my wife has had three operations in that time. The service was absolutely fantastic though I was not allowed to visit her on each occasion or to attend any of her diognastic biopsies etc. Obviously things are not completely normal but other than the fact that initial biopsises could only be done 1 day a week instead of three and that instead of visiting the consultant to get your results that is done by phone call we haven't noticed much difference. It is a far different picture to what was going on in April/May.

I hope your wife is well on the mend, it must have been very frightening to have had her diagnosis and treatment delayed. An awful experience at any time, but particularly then.

 

I assume that the delay was a result of practical difficulties and priorities for hospitals and doctors caused by the virus circulating, rather than due to the lockdown imposed? I believe at peak that hospitals were very close to full in the UK, and if it was anything like here, doctors were reluctant to treat face to face in their surgeries.

 

The point I was trying to make is that had there been no lockdown the situation would have been even worse as there would be even more virus circulating and hospitals would be even more stretched. The appalling situation that you and many others faced where cancer diagnosis and treatment was delayed has been wrongly used to argue against lockdowns. In fact it should be used to argue the exact opposite. Earlier lockdown would have stopped the virus getting out of control, which would have allowed doctors and hospitals to continue their work more easily.

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I could’ve predicted it would end in tiers.

Not now Strokes

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Not now Strokes

🙃

[Guest Fktf]

2 hours ago, StevieLynex said:

Vaccinations for the general public are unlikely to begin until January. With two vaccinations being required, it will probably take to early Summer before the over 50s are vaccinated. Will they decide to vaccinate younger people as well? If so, that will take us through to the Autumn at least. I doubt that anyone can give any assurances that 'life will return to normal'. No-one knows - will the vaccine be effective? Will it make a difference? Does everyone need to stay at home until the vaccination campaign is completed?

The time frame we need to focus on is October ish next year. We saw in summer we can have some normality, as outside events don't seem to pose much risk. Same will happen in the next cycle. But we can break that cycle if the vaccines are done by Autumn, as long as enough people elect to take it. I'm confident we won't have another lockdown past this winter if we can vaccinate quick enough (assuming people will have it), as the effectiveness from early data looks ok.

Edited 28 November 2020 by Fktf

[Guest Fktf]

4 hours ago, DennisNedry said:

 

 

Cheers guys - wasn't even aware this was an option. We're gonna do a private (gender) scan around 15 weeks together 

Well worth it mate. We did one later in the pregnancy too - just to settle our minds really. 20 weeks is the last one on the NHS if all is going well, and that's a long way out from the due date.

[Buce]

10 hours ago, StanSP said:

I don't get how a date - even Easter 4 and a bit months away - can be given for 'life to go back to normal'. 

 

Mainly because of how the government have handled it so far gives me little faith they can stick to the dates suggested ('world-beating test and trace system'...) but I think it's far too ambitious to give a date like that given that the virus is barely under control at the moment...

 

Tbf, they'll already have contracts in place with some MP's friends/relativesshell-companies...

[Chrysalis]

11 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

 

At which point they'll be another system implemented. They must think we're bloody stupid, just be honest for Gods sake!

There will be some kind of lockdown whether its national or tiered, not sure what those rebellion MPs are expecting.

[Bellend Sebastian]

12 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

If you still want a christmas present, then yes.

Because they've planned ahead, I've already got it.

 

I have to say this is all going very well

[Chrysalis]

21 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

What I’m getting at is that @dsr-burnleyputs the blame for the lack of cancer diagnosis and treatment on lockdowns. Surely the government are allowing these to proceed even during lockdown?

 

More likely is that people are not presenting for diagnosis or treatment because they don’t want to risk infection at the surgery or hospital, or because doctors have restricted face to face treatment for fear of spreading virus or catching it themselves, or because hospitals simply don’t have the capacity. It is surely not because people are not allowed to seek treatment as part of lockdown restrictions. If infection is allowed to spread uncontrollably the situation would clearly be worse in all these categories.

 

This point has been made dozens of times, but seems to be ignored by people trying to push their weird agenda.

Yes and no.

 

In cases where cancer is already determined or suspected, treatment is still happening but with the help of private hospitals.  However if you think about people who initially are not suspected, might e.g. have a face to face with a GP, those sort of appointments are no longer happening.

 

Yeah, there is also people who are putting of treatment, not just for cancer but also things like cardiac as they consider the risk of catching covid higher.

[Costock_Fox]

12 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

 

At which point they'll be another system implemented. They must think we're bloody stupid, just be honest for Gods sake!

Announce the “Levels” system.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

11 hours ago, StanSP said:

I don't get how a date - even Easter 4 and a bit months away - can be given for 'life to go back to normal'. 

 

Mainly because of how the government have handled it so far gives me little faith they can stick to the dates suggested ('world-beating test and trace system'...) but I think it's far too ambitious to give a date like that given that the virus is barely under control at the moment...

I think you’re being very harsh, the not so world beating track and trace system has only cost anywhere between 11 million and 12 billion, Quite a discrepancy in reported numbers! 😂 
It’s difficult to believe anything this government tells us at the moment.

[WigstonWanderer]

49 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Yes and no.

 

In cases where cancer is already determined or suspected, treatment is still happening but with the help of private hospitals.  However if you think about people who initially are not suspected, might e.g. have a face to face with a GP, those sort of appointments are no longer happening.

 

Yeah, there is also people who are putting of treatment, not just for cancer but also things like cardiac as they consider the risk of catching covid higher.

Yes, but the point is that those things are caused by the density of virus, not by lockdown.

[Guest Markyblue]

12 hours ago, StevieLynex said:

Vaccinations for the general public are unlikely to begin until January. With two vaccinations being required, it will probably take to early Summer before the over 50s are vaccinated. Will they decide to vaccinate younger people as well? If so, that will take us through to the Autumn at least. I doubt that anyone can give any assurances that 'life will return to normal'. No-one knows - will the vaccine be effective? Will it make a difference? Does everyone need to stay at home until the vaccination campaign is completed?

Why have 67 million people got to be vaccinated for life to get back to normal? Once the most vulnerable are vaccinated the time line for the rest of the population is irrelevant. For the vast majority of the population the virus is at best a minor irritant.  For a significant minority its  deadly so these people are obviously the priority, this virus is not the black death that treats everyone the same it attacks the old ill and weak considerably worse than huge numbers of out population.  The idea that everyone has to be vaccinated is complete crap.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Why have 67 million people got to be vaccinated for life to get back to normal? Once the most vulnerable are vaccinated the time line for the rest of the population is irrelevant. For the vast majority of the population the virus is at best a minor irritant.  For a significant minority its  deadly so these people are obviously the priority, this virus is not the black death that treats everyone the same it attacks the old ill and weak considerably worse than huge numbers of out population.  The idea that everyone has to be vaccinated is complete crap.

There's a reason most vaccination programs in the past have been mass efforts targetting a lot of the population rather than the few that it might hit badly. That reason is to build herd immunity - which we've never gotten close to without a vaccine - because some people are both vulnerable to the disease and cannot be vaccinated for various reasons, such as being immunocompromised.

[Guest Markyblue]

Just now, leicsmac said:

There's a reason most vaccination programs in the past have been mass efforts targetting a lot of the population rather than the few that it might hit badly. That reason is to build herd immunity - which we've never gotten close to without a vaccine - because some people are both vulnerable to the disease and cannot be vaccinated for various reasons, such as being immunocompromised.

That is true but the vaccine is going to protect upto 95% of those taking it and other things are being worked on for those it doesn't protect.  Are you seriously saying normality can not return until 100% of people are completely protected, thats fantasy land. Children are more likely to die of a lightning strike are we to fit them all with earthing rods.

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

That is true but the vaccine is going to protect upto 95% of those taking it and other things are being worked on for those it doesn't protect.  Are you seriously saying normality can not return until 100% of people are completely protected, thats fantasy land. Children are more likely to die of a lightning strike are we to fit them all with earthing rods.

As I said, vaccinating those children isn't to directly protect them primarily (though it will), it's to protect the people they may come in contact with while about their daily business who cannot be vaccinated. What other things, exactly, are being worked on for people who cannot take the vaccine?

 

Sometimes, measures like this aren't just about protecting the person themselves, it's about protecting other people, too.

[Guest Markyblue]

Just now, leicsmac said:

As I said, vaccinating those children isn't to directly protect them primarily (though it will), it's to protect the people they may come in contact with while about their daily business who cannot be vaccinated. What other things, exactly, are being worked on for people who cannot take the vaccine?

 

Sometimes, measures like this aren't just about protecting the person themselves, it's about protecting other people, too.

But the most vulnerable will be vaccinated FIRST. There has to be a balance of protection and getting back to normal to protect the untold amount of people this is affecting in numerous ways other than catching covid. Job losses depression ,cancers not treated and various other factors. 

[leicsmac]

22 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

But the most vulnerable will be vaccinated FIRST. There has to be a balance of protection and getting back to normal to protect the untold amount of people this is affecting in numerous ways other than catching covid. Job losses depression ,cancers not treated and various other factors. 

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear here...some of the most vulnerable will not be vaccinated, simply because they *cannot be* due to their own existing conditions.

 

I certainly agree that there has to be an economic and social restart as soon as is possible, but like it or not that does rely on a significant proportion of the populace getting the vaccine, or it will continue to perpetuate and produce problems for at least some vulnerable people and get further in the way of that recovery by consuming resources that would be better used elsewhere.

[Guest Markyblue]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear here...some of the most vulnerable will not be vaccinated, simply because they *cannot be* due to their own existing conditions.

 

I certainly agree that there has to be an economic and social restart as soon as is possible, but like it or not that does rely on a significant proportion of the populace getting the vaccine, or it will continue to perpetuate and produce problems for at least some vulnerable people and get further in the way of that recovery by consuming resources that would be better used elsewhere.

My last words mac i enjoy many of your posts and know you are very intelligent but i feel your playing devils advocate. In plain terms the few that cannot be vaccinated will have to be protected in other ways "the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few". Have a good day.