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filbertway

Coronavirus Thread

By filbertway, in General Chat

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

who's to say the vaccine will effectively work and we then have to wait another year a new one and if it does work what happens if another virus appears almost straight after... 

Actually, you raise a very good point. We are living with a global pandemic (sorry @Nod.E), which will very likely become endemic and require periodic vaccination. Even then, it is unlikely to be fully effective. A partially effective vaccine is preferable to no vaccine at all. The annual flu vaccination is only 50% effective, but it plays a huge part in reducing the clinical impacts of flu in the population. 

 

A successful virus must be a chameleon like master of disguise, changing their protein coat regularly. If the mutations are too subtle the viral coat will be easily identified by antibodies, too drastic a change might inactivate the virus. Successful mutations are the happy medium. These influenza viruses that cloak themselves in rapidly evolving RNA are expert shapeshifters. We know that influenza mutations can result in pandemics that can claim millions of lives so as flu evolves, virologists respond with a seasonal vaccine with remains effective for a time.

 

Corona viruses apparently have a proof reading mechanism that edits out mutations, because the RNA genomes are very large meaning that they are more prone to error. That means they change less regularly than flu does, which is good news for vaccine developers - but you are right, there is still much more research to be done to determine just how long this may be effective for.  We also know that the corona virus family is strewn across the animal kingdom, so again, your fears are justified, another zoonotic infection/outbreak of a similar scale is inevitable. 

 

13 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

this could go on for years imo as its a blanket to change the way society lives, climate change, eco systems etc.. imo of course LineX will be falling of his chair reading this I expect a laugh emjoi is incoming 

Not at all - I encourage you to expand on that. I apologise if you think that I was being glib, derisory or dismissive. Your post implied that this situation is somehow nefariously engineering to effect population control in response to environmental sustainability. Could you clarify what you mean by "blanket to change the way society lives"? Are you saying that the corona virus outbreak is a watershed or a sea change in terms of societal norms and that this can be exploited in the future by world governments? Or are you suggesting that a global vaccination programme has more sinister implications?

 

Could you also for the benefit of those reading this thread, demonstrate why you deemed my post to be, I quote directly - "bollox"? I have no objection to having my comments challenged and disproved - in fact I invite evidence to the contrary from you or anyone else. However, if you are going to dismiss something you need to substantiate that with such evidence - as opposed to opinion - (not to say that I'm not also interested in eliciting the latter - as Leicsmac similarly invited you to do so). Could you by any chance present it instead of hurling ad hominem abuse and logical fallacy in the direction of anyone or anything that runs counter to your preconceptions? 

 

Again, apologies if you thought I was unnecessarily dismissive of your post. Could you explain what you mean by the roll out of a vaccine as a "blanket to change the way society lives"? in addition to why you branded my post as "bollox"? I'm genuinely intrigued. 

 

- Cheers.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, everton carr said:

You do know that we have had no excess deaths since June and the average age of people who die from covid are 82?.Suggest you take a look at the World Economic forum and the great reset

Same question again, then - what do we do instead, and why would it be the safest way?

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, everton carr said:

Suggest you take a look at the World Economic forum and the great reset

 

The WEF plan explores how countries might recover from the economic damage caused by the coronavirus pandemic and the ways that it provides a unique opportunity to shape about the kind of sustainable future we want for future generations. It has inevitably been seized upon by social media, largely far right conspiracy theorists and alt-news to suggest sinister intent - no different to the the conspiratorial horseshit that surrounded Agenda21. 

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Nick

Nick

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Posted

Witty explained it well I thought the other day...

 

Tier 1: Doesn’t stop cases rising. It does however stop them going through the roof.

 

Tier 2: Doesn’t lower cases but keeps them on a flat rate.

 

Tier 3: Actively lowers transmission rate and cases.

 

 

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Nalis

Nalis

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Nick said:

Witty explained it well I thought the other day...

 

Tier 1: Doesn’t stop cases rising. It does however stop them going through the roof.

 

Tier 2: Doesn’t lower cases but keeps them on a flat rate.

 

Tier 3: Actively lowers transmission rate and cases.

 

 

Makes sense - Pretty much means it will be extremely difficult for anyone to get from Tier 2 to Tier 1 without the vaccine rollout.

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whoareyaaa

whoareyaaa

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Line-X said:

Actually, you raise a very good point. We are living with a global pandemic (sorry @Nod.E), which will very likely become endemic and require periodic vaccination. Even then, it is unlikely to be fully effective. A partially effective vaccine is preferable to no vaccine at all. The annual flu vaccination is only 50% effective, but it plays a huge part in reducing the clinical impacts of flu in the population. 

 

A successful virus must be a chameleon like master of disguise, changing their protein coat regularly. If the mutations are too subtle the viral coat will be easily identified by antibodies, too drastic a change might inactivate the virus. Successful mutations are the happy medium. These influenza viruses that cloak themselves in rapidly evolving RNA are expert shapeshifters. We know that influenza mutations can result in pandemics that can claim millions of lives so as flu evolves, virologists respond with a seasonal vaccine with remains effective for a time.

 

Corona viruses apparently have a proof reading mechanism that edits out mutations, because the RNA genomes are very large meaning that they are more prone to error. That means they change less regularly than flu does, which is good news for vaccine developers - but you are right, there is still much more research to be done to determine just how long this may be effective for.  We also know that the corona virus family is strewn across the animal kingdom, so again, your fears are justified, another zoonotic infection/outbreak of a similar scale is inevitable. 

 

Not at all - I encourage you to expand on that. I apologise if you think that I was being glib, derisory or dismissive. Your post implied that this situation is somehow nefariously engineering to effect population control in response to environmental sustainability. Could you clarify what you mean by "blanket to change the way society lives"? Are you saying that the corona virus outbreak is a watershed or a sea change in terms of societal norms and that this can be exploited in the future by world governments? Or are you suggesting that a global vaccination programme has more sinister implications?

 

Could you also for the benefit of those reading this thread, demonstrate why you deemed my post to be, I quote directly - "bollox"? I have no objection to having my comments challenged and disproved - in fact I invite evidence to the contrary from you or anyone else. However, if you are going to dismiss something you need to substantiate that with such evidence - as opposed to opinion - (not to say that I'm not also interested in eliciting the latter - as Leicsmac similarly invited you to do so). Could you by any chance present it instead of hurling ad hominem abuse and logical fallacy in the direction of anyone or anything that runs counter to your preconceptions? 

 

Again, apologies if you thought I was unnecessarily dismissive of your post. Could you explain what you mean by the roll out of a vaccine as a "blanket to change the way society lives"? in addition to why you branded my post as "bollox"? I'm genuinely intrigued. 

 

- Cheers.

I branded your post bollox because that's how you dimiss my posts not like you have done here though and actually gone into conservation, so fair play. It wasn't directed at the post more at you.

 

Regarding your question I think to be able to make such a drastic change to the planet and way we live a blanket approach has to be taken and that's what's happening now

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

I branded your post bollox because that's how you dimiss my posts 

 

Thanks for your reply. I apologise if that has previously been the case - but I'm sure you'll find that I have at least provided reasons as to why. And it isn't a personal attack, rather, directed at the post not you. Completely the reverse of this...

5 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

It wasn't directed at the post more at you.

 

So as I said, ad hominem logical fallacy then. 

 

Irrespective of any of this - it's best forgotten I think you'll agree. Again, thanks for taking the time to reply. 

 

6 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Regarding your question I think to be able to make such a drastic change to the planet and way we live a blanket approach has to be taken 

It does and I completely agree. There was a very insightful discussion about this on here earlier in the year as the crisis was unfolding - can't recall whether it was on this thread or whether it was a separate one. The Covid-19 pandemic, and the political, economic and social disruption it has unleashed has forced us to challenge the traditional context for decision-making and reevaluate our priorities. The shortcomings and contradictions of multiple global systems from business and finance, to industry, health, education, the geographies of the workplace and energy are more exposed than ever amidst a global context of concern for lives, livelihoods and the future of the planet. Covid-19 has revealed the shaky foundations on which much of what we take for granted in the developed world is built, from the intricately interwoven nature of globalised supply chains and manufacturing infrastructure and the just-in-time distribution models, as well as stark contrasts between nationalised healthcare systems and those financed by private insurance.

 

National governments have instituted drastic measures to immobilise their populations and suspend entire sectors of the economy in a bid to to control the pandemic. This has highlighted the appreciable power of the state, unleashed when it realises it must act decisively to protect its citizens. Such a national collective response is only normally seen in war-time, when the entire workforce and industrial base is repurposed to defeat an external enemy. But, in fact, what is needed to counter the threat posed by both the coronavirus pandemic and climate change is a kind of anti-war economy, to reduce industrial production and energy use. 

 

We now find ourselves ushering in a window of opportunity through the recovery process to engender, fashion and shape a sustainable future. If we seize the initiative it will afford invaluable insight to inform global stakeholders to cooperate in simultaneously effecting such a vision. The WEF Great Reset initiative which was mentioned earlier on this thread has proposed a new social contract that honours the dignity of every human being. Very utopian and idealistic, but concerns over the future implications of such centralised control and the spectre of an Orwellian state have justifiably been raised on this thread. Nonetheless, whilst being enormously disruptive and painful, the corona virus pandemic has increased awareness of our vulnerability as a species and such crises also invariably nurture the emergence of great common purpose, solidarity, creativity, and improvisation. I believe in looking for opportunity in the face of adversity. Sounds a tad naive or excessively panglossian, but life has taught me that it's there if you are prepared to seize it. 

 

7 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

and that's what's happening now

Yes, but not by design, in response to a global crisis. I am hopeful that this watershed may be for the greater good. I was trying to establish whether you are suggesting that an imminent global vaccination programme was being seized upon with sinister intent - as opposed to simply being capitalised upon in terms of profit? 

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DennisNedry

DennisNedry

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Fktf said:

If you can spare 50 quid, go private. Me and my missus did a few times in her pregnancy because I couldn't get in the hospital with her.

 

8 hours ago, The Blur said:

 

 

Aye,  I also went down this route with my wife (17 weeks now)  too but do your research with these companies as obviously they would be more driven by profit than NHS-  I have read some questionable stories about their practice but it it is likely to be isolated examples rather than general consensus!

 

All the best with the pregnancy @DennisNedry and @Fktf-  it is quite a journey as I am sure you two have experienced by now! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers guys - wasn't even aware this was an option. We're gonna do a private (gender) scan around 15 weeks together :thumbup:

Edited by DennisNedry
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