Coronavirus Thread

[CosbehFox]

Guys I’d really be surprised if Parliament decisions or votes really swung public opinion that much. 
 

You only have to look at the last two years for that! 

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, Corky said:

What is the point? 

Made the point elsewhere - regardless of if you offer beer, food or non alcoholic drinks. It still involves the same act of sitting in a (more) enclosed space and having people nearby. What’s the difference between a single coffee being drank and a single pint of beer? 
 

That act is either increasing the risk of spreading the injection or it’s not at all. Regardless of what goes down your mouth. 
 

The ‘drunk’ argument can be stopped if pubs are advised to only serve so many beers (whilst still maintaining trade). I think the danger of house parties is probably larger if you don’t have them open rather than if you do but that can be debated. (Worth noting that hundreds of Christmas parties will occur at workplaces this year within warehouse and office settings where companies just buy shedloads of beer). 
 

These halfway house decisions help no one. Means pubs still have to make orders, still have to pay wages and still have to pay utility bills. Close them and support them, then they don’t lose money from ordered food, they don’t needlessly pay staff and their utility bills are vastly reduced. 
 

All four nations across the board have been fecking clueless throughout. 

[z-layrex]

2 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

Spineless. They sit on the fence and if it goes wrong they'll just blame the Tories rather than actually opposing it and helping to come up with a better solution.

Which is why they won't be in power again for a very long time.

[st albans fox]

Love Twitter !

 

[UniFox21]

10 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

Spineless. They sit on the fence and if it goes wrong they'll just blame the Tories rather than actually opposing it and helping to come up with a better solution.

Pathetic. They could actually challenge this with the help of the tory mp's voting against and produce a better system. But no, Labour will sit on the sidelines waiting for it to fail and then come out saying "we told you so". 

[CosbehFox]

 

7 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Pathetic. They could actually challenge this with the help of the tory mp's voting against and produce a better system. But no, Labour will sit on the sidelines waiting for it to fail and then come out saying "we told you so". 

They are challenging the financial package. They aren’t challenging the restrictions.
 

They vote against the government; on the 2nd December the legislation proposed doesn’t take place and we were remain in the status quo now or no restrictions at all (depend on the legislations timescale - as saw by NI’s recent boo-boo). 
 

It’s a tricky choice given the lack of time between vote and legislation passed. Equally they won’t have been party to the same discussions Tory MPs had on Monday with the government.

 

I understand the disagreement against Labour’s action but the choices are available to them aren’t great 

[Strokes]

24 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

 

They are challenging the financial package. They aren’t challenging the restrictions.
 

They vote against the government; on the 2nd December the legislation proposed doesn’t take place and we were remain in the status quo now or no restrictions at all (depend on the legislations timescale - as saw by NI’s recent boo-boo). 
 

It’s a tricky choice given the lack of time between vote and legislation passed. Equally they won’t have been party to the same discussions Tory MPs had on Monday with the government.

 

I understand the disagreement against Labour’s action but the choices are available to them aren’t great 

They are abstaining because they know it could go either way and if they are on the winning side they are accountable. This way they can sit on the sides and criticise as per....

[Finnaldo]

It’ll pass either way. Tory ‘rebels’ have a track record of making racket about golf courses then vote in line. 
 

Quite how the 80 seat-majority government got to this point where it’s even discussed will be a tad concerning for them I imagine.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

They are abstaining because they know it could go either way and if they are on the winning side they are accountable. This way they can sit on the sides and criticise as per....

It passes regardless of their support and there's been countless motions about restrictions and lockdown already where they have voted with government....hence accountable. But they didn't make the press. 

[Jon the Hat]

28 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

It’ll pass either way. Tory ‘rebels’ have a track record of making racket about golf courses then vote in line. 
 

Quite how the 80 seat-majority government got to this point where it’s even discussed will be a tad concerning for them I imagine.

Of course - but it is pretty tough when the Tier 3 areas look like a map of the Blue Wall which gave them that majority...

[Mapperleyfox]

10 hours ago, Corky said:

What is the point? 

There can't be a point, other than to deliberately break businesses and antagonize the public over the absurdity of it all.

[ealingfox]

This is what has happened when Labour has offered to work with the government to produce a better system btw

 

 

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

It passes regardless of their support and there's been countless motions about restrictions and lockdown already where they have voted with government....hence accountable. But they didn't make the press. 

I’m aware of that, but now they can let it play out and let the government take all the flack and attack where necessary. If they take a side, they can only attack effectively if they pick the right side.

[Mickyblueeyes]

48 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

This is what has happened when Labour has offered to work with the government to produce a better system btw

 

 

Nadine Dorries - what an asshole. Whatever your politics, this is an unacceptable response. Even more so given the current climate. Whatever happened to professionalism. 

[Crinklyfox]

I've just received my latest missive from Matt Hancock.  Interestingly it advises everyone to take Vitamin D over the winter months - extract below

I wrote to you a few weeks ago to let you know about the guidance and support that was in place for people considered to be at highest risk from COVID-19 (sometimes referred to as clinically extremely vulnerable) during the four-week period of the national restrictions. That guidance, as well as the national restrictions for the general population, will be coming to an end on 2 December. On 23 November, the Prime Minister announced that the Government will be reintroducing the system of local Tiers from 2 December. At each Tier there will be a set of rules that everyone in your area must follow. This letter is to let you know about the new guidance that will be in place for clinically extremely vulnerable people from 2 December, and which you may want to follow to help keep yourself safe. This guidance includes additional precautions covering things like socialising, travel and going to work and school. These are not rules but advice, so you can choose whether you wish to follow them. There is a table at the bottom of this letter that summarises the precautionary actions you can take. Unlike the guidance that has been in place since 5 November, we are no longer advising you to stay away from work or school. However, you should continue to keep the number of social interactions that you have low and try to reduce the amount of time you spend in settings where you are unable to maintain social distancing. This might include gatherings with large numbers of people, especially indoors, because it significantly increases your risk. The full guidance can be found online at https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus and you can find out what Tier your local area is in here: https://www.gov.uk/find-coronavirus-local-restrictions If you are advised to shield in the future, we will write to you setting out the guidance and additional support that will be available if you need it. Advice for clinically extremely vulnerable children and young people As our knowledge of COVID-19 has grown, we now know that very few children are at highest risk of severe illness due to the virus. Doctors have therefore been reviewing all children and young people who were initially identified as clinically extremely vulnerable to confirm whether they are still thought to be at highest risk. If this letter is addressed to a child or young person, and you have not yet heard from your child’s hospital doctor or GP to discuss this, please contact whoever usually provides care for your child to check whether they should still be considered clinically extremely vulnerable. If you have already discussed this with your child’s doctors and they have confirmed your child is still considered highest risk, your child should follow the advice as set out in this letter. Advice for the festive period From 23 to 27 December, the Government will be changing some restrictions on social contact. This allows you to form a ‘Christmas bubble’ in which you can spend time indoors and outdoors with people from up to three households, including your own. You can choose to be part of a Christmas bubble if you are clinically extremely vulnerable, but it does involve greater risks for you as you will be increasing the number of people you have contact with. It is important that you and the other people in your Christmas bubble consider these risks carefully before agreeing to form a bubble. Forming a Christmas bubble is a personal choice and should be balanced against the increased risk of infection. More information on Christmas bubbles can be found at the end of this letter. Access to health and care The NHS is open, and we urge you to continue to access all the NHS services that you need, whatever Tier your local area is in. It is safer for you to use the NHS than to try to manage alone. You can also quickly and easily access a range of NHS services from home, including ordering repeat prescriptions or having an online appointment with your healthcare professional. To find out more visit: https://www.nhs.uk/health-at-home or download the NHS App. You should also continue to receive support from social care if you require it. Please make sure your GP has your most up to date contact details, including your home address and, if possible, a personal email address, so that we can contact you quickly in the event that guidance changes in the future. Access to additional support Please visit https://www.gov.uk/find-coronavirus-support to get more information on what government support is available to everyone during the pandemic. Your local council may run local support networks or hubs, and there might be local charities in your area that can provide you with any extra help you need. Your local council’s website will have more information about this. NHS Volunteer Responders are also available to help with things like collecting shopping, medication or other essential supplies and with transport to medical appointments. They can also provide a regular, friendly phone call which can be provided by different volunteers each time or by someone who was previously advised to shield and will stay in contact for several weeks. More information is available at https://www.nhsvolunteerresponders.org.uk or you can call 0808 196 3646 between 8am and 8pm. If you are in a Tier Three: Very High alert area you can also register via https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus-shielding-support to request access to priority supermarket deliveries, if you do not have someone you can rely on to go shopping for you. If you already have priority deliveries with a supermarket, that will continue – you do not need to do anything further. If you are in a Tier Three: Very High alert area and need other forms of help, you should contact your local council directly. Find out how your local council can help you at https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus-local-help. It is also really important to look after your mental health. The Every Mind Matters website offers advice and practical steps that you can take to support your wellbeing and manage your mental health during this pandemic. You can visit them at https://www.nhs.uk/oneyou/every-mind-matters. Vitamin D supplements During the autumn and winter months everyone is advised to take a supplement of vitamin D every day to support general health and in particular for bone and muscle health. Many of us have been indoors more than usual this year and so might not have been making enough vitamin D from sunlight. You can find general advice on vitamin D here: https://www.nhs.uk/vitamin-d This advice is particularly important for people who have been shielding this year due to COVID-19, or who are living in care homes, because they are most likely to have been indoors over the spring and summer and so may not have been able to obtain enough vitamin D from sunlight. The Government is offering a free 4-month supply of daily supplements of vitamin D for all adults who are clinically extremely vulnerable to support general health and in particular for bone and muscle health. If you would like to opt-in to receive your free supply of vitamin D, you will need register your details between 30 November 2020 and 4 January 2021 at the following link: https://www.nhs.uk/get-vitamin-d You do not need to opt-in to receive the vitamin D supplements if: You are already taking, or are prescribed, a vitamin D supplement by your GP or healthcare professional You are currently living in a nursing or residential care home as we will provide these direct to the home where you live. We expect to start distributing the vitamin D supplements from January 2021. Further guidance on how to safely take vitamin D supplements will be provided during the opt in process. I know it has been really hard for you during the pandemic and appreciate the sacrifices that you have made. We will continue to support you in your efforts to keep yourself and others safe. Yours sincerely, MATT HANCOCK Secretary of State for Health and Social Care

[Guest Harrydc]

Theres a lot of talk this morning about  a vaccine passport system. Where you have to provide proof of a jab to enter any establishnent. 

 

No one should be forced to put something in their body they don't want.. Ever. 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Harrydc said:

Theres a lot of talk this morning about  a vaccine passport system. Where you have to provide proof of a jab to enter any establishnent. 

 

No one should be forced to put something in their body they don't want.. Ever. 

This is true, you can not have a vaccine and accept not going to such places.

[Alf Bentley]

44 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’m aware of that, but now they can let it play out and let the government take all the flack and attack where necessary. If they take a side, they can only attack effectively if they pick the right side.

 

But what's their choice of sides?

 

What they have argued for is broad support for govt restrictions (but quicker action), a better test-and-trace system and more economic support during restrictions.

They've argued that for months in parliament and the media - and they can argue until they're blue in the face, but they're facing a majority govt so won't get their way unless the govt agrees or there's a vast Tory rebellion agreeing with them.

 

Their real choice of sides is:

- Ally with Tory rebels mainly interested in fewer restrictions so as to leave us with no post-lockdown strategy or restrictions going into Xmas.....that would be utterly irresponsible party politics when they support restrictions, just better & more support

- Support the Govt restrictions and get public criticism for not standing up for economic support, better test-and-trace etc. This is essentially the risk they've taken for months, consistently supporting govt but making constructive suggestions that are ignored.

- .....or abstain and get criticism from some for "sitting on the fence".

 

On the other hand, abstaining is a shot across the bows for Johnson that he can't rely on Labour support whatever he does on Covid. That is a meaningful shot across the bows, even though he has a majority, as he has a lot of discontent on his own benches. Having used his majority to largely ignore Labour's approach of support with constructive criticism, he knows he might need to make the odd concession in future to retain a majority for his Covid policies......

 

If you want to see this as pure cynicism, I'm probably not going to convince you otherwise. But, if they're so cynical, why have they consistently supported govt action (while making constructive criticism) for months - taking a side and taking the risk of being slated for supporting unpopular govt action?

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

But what's their choice of sides?

 

What they have argued for is broad support for govt restrictions (but quicker action), a better test-and-trace system and more economic support during restrictions.

They've argued that for months in parliament and the media - and they can argue until they're blue in the face, but they're facing a majority govt so won't get their way unless the govt agrees or there's a vast Tory rebellion agreeing with them.

 

Their real choice of sides is:

- Ally with Tory rebels mainly interested in fewer restrictions so as to leave us with no post-lockdown strategy or restrictions going into Xmas.....that would be utterly irresponsible party politics when they support restrictions, just better & more support

- Support the Govt restrictions and get public criticism for not standing up for economic support, better test-and-trace etc. This is essentially the risk they've taken for months, consistently supporting govt but making constructive suggestions that are ignored.

- .....or abstain and get criticism from some for "sitting on the fence".

 

On the other hand, abstaining is a shot across the bows for Johnson that he can't rely on Labour support whatever he does on Covid. That is a meaningful shot across the bows, even though he has a majority, as he has a lot of discontent on his own benches. Having used his majority to largely ignore Labour's approach of support with constructive criticism, he knows he might need to make the odd concession in future to retain a majority for his Covid policies......

 

If you want to see this as pure cynicism, I'm probably not going to convince you otherwise. But, if they're so cynical, why have they consistently supported govt action (while making constructive criticism) for months - taking a side and taking the risk of being slated for supporting unpopular govt action?

To be fair, that is a well constructed point and I do remain cynical but it has given me food for thought.

[rachhere]

2 hours ago, ealingfox said:

This is what has happened when Labour has offered to work with the government to produce a better system btw

 

 

I genuinely would have struggled not to throw something at her head if I were there. 

[String fellow]

Let's hope that Labour's MPs (and inevitably the SNP MPs) abstentions today don't coincide with another Tuesday surge in deaths.

[SpacedX]

46 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

No one should be forced to put something in their body they don't want.. Ever. 

Wrong.

 

If refusal to do so endangers the lives of others. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Let's hope that Labour's MPs (and inevitably the SNP MPs) abstentions today don't coincide with another Tuesday surge in deaths.

It's amazing how covid19 always takes the weekend off.

 

 

That's a knock at how we record stuff, not anyone here.

[Innovindil]

53 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

Theres a lot of talk this morning about  a vaccine passport system. Where you have to provide proof of a jab to enter any establishnent. 

 

No one should be forced to put something in their body they don't want.. Ever. 

Not quite that is it. For one, no one is forcing you to take it. And secondly Gove has come out and said that a passport system isn't the plan, and it would be left to individual businesses on who they admitted. 

 

In any event, I somewhat support it. Everyone who takes the vaccine is taking a risk, even if I believe that to be a small risk. Seems odd to let anti-vaxers have the same benefits while taking none of the risks tbh. 

[MonmoreStef]

I can sort of see both sides of this vaccine  debate. I’m not keen on it and certainly won’t be rushing to take it but ultimately accept that I’ll take it. Age wise I’m probably at a stage where if I looked at the pros and cons then taking it is the correct decision. However, if I was a fit as a fiddle person under 30 I’d probably look at it very differently.  Easy for us that feel slightly vulnerable to criticise them that aren’t vulnerable and aren’t keen to take it. Is there any vaccine we ever have taken, out of interest, that we don’t need but will help protect others ?