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filbertway

Coronavirus Thread

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Heard that one of the local schools had 13 staff having to self isolate and none of them had anything wrong with them, turns out they'd all left their phones in a staff room and someone went in doing some work whose own phone had been contacted, which consequently set all the other ones off.

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10 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

I wonder if you could go into the pub and order your plate of cheesy chips, only to be told "there is a backlog in the kitchen and there will be a three hour delay" - and bring out a plate of nuts to show willing, and allow you a pint of beer or three while you are waiting.

Funny guy

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8 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

Macmillan Cancer Support - experts int he field - say that 50,000 fewer cancers have been diagnosed this year compared with last, and 33,000 people have not been treated for known cancers who should have been treated.  Where is that factored into the "we must have lockdown" analysis?

Has the government stopped cancer diagnosis as part of lockdown?

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18 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Heard that one of the local schools had 13 staff having to self isolate and none of them had anything wrong with them, turns out they'd all left their phones in a staff room and someone went in doing some work whose own phone had been contacted, which consequently set all the other ones off.

So the system worked then.

 

Whats the challenge procedure after you’ve had a text to self isolate, is there 1, should there be 1?
It’s clearly obvious what’s happened here once investigation has been followed through, probably by the individuals themselves, but have the NHS the resource to follow up on every ping and subsequent challenge they would receive?

 

Its a “dumb” system, in that the program parameters are fixed so unless we are all Bio-chipped it’s the only way we have some element of tracking I guess.

 

Just thinking more about the school staff as I type, do they really need to self isolate? Surely they would have received a txt to say they (their phones) have been close to someone who has themselves been close to someone who has tested positive, so more of an interest txt not an action txt otherwise how far down the “closeness” chain do they go?

The person who entered would got a txt to say they have been in contact with someone who has tested positive therefore self isolate so unless that person then went and tested positive why would following txts be sent triggered by that phone & even then there would be days in between events, how would they know the source your not told are you?


The last bit is me thinking out aloud trying to work out the scenario not a challenge on you Yorkie :blink:

 

 

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4 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Has the government stopped cancer diagnosis as part of lockdown?

Diagnosis still going on though fewer people are presenting at Docs with their ailments - its the treatment that's really under pressure.

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1 minute ago, Nick said:

Diagnosis still going on though fewer people are presenting at Docs with their ailments - its the treatment that's really under pressure.

What I’m getting at is that @dsr-burnleyputs the blame for the lack of cancer diagnosis and treatment on lockdowns. Surely the government are allowing these to proceed even during lockdown?

 

More likely is that people are not presenting for diagnosis or treatment because they don’t want to risk infection at the surgery or hospital, or because doctors have restricted face to face treatment for fear of spreading virus or catching it themselves, or because hospitals simply don’t have the capacity. It is surely not because people are not allowed to seek treatment as part of lockdown restrictions. If infection is allowed to spread uncontrollably the situation would clearly be worse in all these categories.

 

This point has been made dozens of times, but seems to be ignored by people trying to push their weird agenda.

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15 hours ago, DennisNedry said:

I'm still allowed to take my car in for it's service in a couple of weeks, nip into town and go Christmas shopping...

...but I can't go with my wife to her 12 week scan of our first child.

 

Both gutted and furious.

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Fktf said:

If you can spare 50 quid, go private. Me and my missus did a few times in her pregnancy because I couldn't get in the hospital with her.

 

Aye,  I also went down this route with my wife (17 weeks now)  too but do your research with these companies as obviously they would be more driven by profit than NHS-  I have read some questionable stories about their practice but it it is likely to be isolated examples rather than general consensus!

 

All the best with the pregnancy @DennisNedry and @Fktf-  it is quite a journey as I am sure you two have experienced by now! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 26/11/2020 at 08:32, reporterpenguin said:

What has formed that opinion though? These vaccines have been trialed on tens of thousands of people and has been shown to be safe. Statistically it is likely that any problems would have been highlighted by these trials, especially given the wide ranging demographic they have been conducted with. 

 

I'm genuinely curious about why you consider it a con on the public.

there a few factors in play imo, I'm not saying the vaccine is harmful but they are changing the way society lives because of damage to the planet and ecosystems and this virus is just a blanket to start that change

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2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

In Australia, and in particular Victoria, state lockdown policies have been decisive, committed and effectual aided by a compliant citizenship that unlike the UK enforced and maintained distancing protocols. This in tandem with a comprehensive programme of testing and contact tracing. Lockdown is not an isolated measure - as has been painstakingly explained again and again and again, it is designed to reduce clinical impact, reduce the r-nought value and bring the virus under control, it is therefore not a policy that operates in isolation from a range of other measures. It is however demonstrably necessary. 

 

Worldwide, overwhelming evidence suggests that lockdowns help contain coronavirus outbreaks and prevent additional deaths. Data shows that where lockdown measures have been observed to prevent the COVID-19 pandemic, that the spread of the virus can be significantly reduced and suppressed by this preventive restriction. However, that alone will not actually stop the virus, China had to undertake rapid testing of any suspect case, immediate isolation of anyone who was a confirmed or suspected case, and then quarantine the close contacts for 14 days so that they could then figure out if any were infected. Those were the measures that stopped transmission in China, as opposed to simply major travel restrictions and lockdowns. 

 

Nonetheless, in Wuhan, China, it is known that the city's lockdown on January 23 prevented tens of thousands of infections throughout the Hubei province. Without the lockdown, cases in Hubei would have been 65% higher. International researchers also recently determined that overall social distancing in China reduced the number of daily interactions by at least sevenfold, thereby lowering transmission.

 

This is an incredibly complex set of variables that we are confronted with. The populist notion that the people are "wise to it" is complete horseshit and that is precisely the foolhardy rhetoric and misconception that causes guidelines and restrictions to be flagrantly flouted, will inflict further damage to the economy long term, usher in further waves of infection and ultimately costs lives.

 

In spite of this data and complexity, last week I read on this thread that apparently 'lockdown doesn't work'.

 

So it must be true then :appl:

 

Odd that, because global data would beg to differ. Perhaps that's because the informed expertise in the fields of virology, immunology and epidemiology is preoccupied with applying their appreciable experience modelling infectious disease rates as opposed to posting scientifically illiterate populist horseshit on a football forum. 

 

Some of the 'self-proclaimed' armchair experts on here should visit the State of Victoria and tell the governors, biosecurity specialists, virologists, immunologists and epidemiologists that "lockdown doesn't work". Don't forget to also let them know that you are a member of a provincial UK internet football forum and that the University of You Tube sent you. 

 

That aside, since we have established on Thursday that 'Lockdowns don't work' because several members of Foxes Talk said so, can I reiterate the requests from both St.Albans Fox and Leicsmac for these people to detail an alternative strategy that does? Only, judging by the total lack of response, it must have slipped their minds.

what a load of bollox

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Just now, whoareyaaa said:

what a load of bollox

No use saying it. Do feel free to demonstrate why. Go ahead. And whist on the subject of "bollox"...

 

19 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

there a few factors in play imo, I'm not saying the vaccine is harmful but they are changing the way society lives because of damage to the planet and ecosystems and this virus is just a blanket to start that change

lol

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Purely in an effort to raise the standard of discourse here right now, I ask, sincerely:

 

@whoareyaaa (and anyone else who might share a similar viewpoint), what would be the best way out of this, in your opinion - and why?

 

I'm honestly interested in thoughts here - if it is just an unsubstantiated hunch, feel free to say so, there's no actual shame in that.

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2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

In Australia, and in particular Victoria, state lockdown policies have been decisive, committed and effectual aided by a compliant citizenship that unlike the UK enforced and maintained distancing protocols. This in tandem with a comprehensive programme of testing and contact tracing. Lockdown is not an isolated measure - as has been painstakingly explained again and again and again, it is designed to reduce clinical impact, reduce the r-nought value and bring the virus under control, it is therefore not a policy that operates in isolation from a range of other measures. It is however demonstrably necessary. 

 

Worldwide, overwhelming evidence suggests that lockdowns help contain coronavirus outbreaks and prevent additional deaths. Data shows that where lockdown measures have been observed to prevent the COVID-19 pandemic, that the spread of the virus can be significantly reduced and suppressed by this preventive restriction. However, that alone will not actually stop the virus, China had to undertake rapid testing of any suspect case, immediate isolation of anyone who was a confirmed or suspected case, and then quarantine the close contacts for 14 days so that they could then figure out if any were infected. Those were the measures that stopped transmission in China, as opposed to simply major travel restrictions and lockdowns. 

 

Nonetheless, in Wuhan, China, it is known that the city's lockdown on January 23 prevented tens of thousands of infections throughout the Hubei province. Without the lockdown, cases in Hubei would have been 65% higher. International researchers also recently determined that overall social distancing in China reduced the number of daily interactions by at least sevenfold, thereby lowering transmission.

 

This is an incredibly complex set of variables that we are confronted with. The populist notion that the people are "wise to it" is complete horseshit and that is precisely the foolhardy rhetoric and misconception that causes guidelines and restrictions to be flagrantly flouted, will inflict further damage to the economy long term, usher in further waves of infection and ultimately costs lives.

 

In spite of this data and complexity, last week I read on this thread that apparently 'lockdown doesn't work'.

 

So it must be true then :appl:

 

Odd that, because global data would beg to differ. Perhaps that's because the informed expertise in the fields of virology, immunology and epidemiology is preoccupied with applying their appreciable experience modelling infectious disease rates as opposed to posting scientifically illiterate populist horseshit on a football forum. 

 

Some of the 'self-proclaimed' armchair experts on here should visit the State of Victoria and tell the governors, biosecurity specialists, virologists, immunologists and epidemiologists that "lockdown doesn't work". Don't forget to also let them know that you are a member of a provincial UK internet football forum and that the University of You Tube sent you. 

 

That aside, since we have established on Thursday that 'Lockdowns don't work' because several members of Foxes Talk said so, can I reiterate the requests from both St.Albans Fox and Leicsmac for these people to detail an alternative strategy that does? Only, judging by the total lack of response, it must have slipped their minds.

Course a lockdown works, it's bound to, and if you take it to the extreme and lock everyone in their houses for long enough, no-one will catch it and the figures will say zero, but the problem is that a lockdown can't go on forever, and consequently people will argue that lockdowns don't work because eventually you have to come out of a lockdown and the whole problem starts again, just delayed by 2 months. The government are trying to stop the nhs being overwhelmed, which must be working because the nhs appears not to be overwhelmed, but at what cost to the general health of the nation 12 months down the line, no-one knows what it could be like.

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3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Purely in an effort to raise the standard of discourse here right now, I ask, sincerely:

 

@whoareyaaa (and anyone else who might share a similar viewpoint), what would be the best way out of this, in your opinion - and why?

 

I'm honestly interested in thoughts here - if it is just an unsubstantiated hunch, feel free to say so, there's no actual shame in that.

there is nothing we can do, until the government say otherwise... it doesn't matter what we do.

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Just now, whoareyaaa said:

there is nothing we can do, until the government say otherwise... it doesn't matter what we do.

Other than vote once every few years or get out into the streets when the time is right and things are really dire, that's probably about true.

 

But I am however still interested in an opinion.

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1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Course a lockdown works, it's bound to, and if you take it to the extreme and lock everyone in their houses for long enough, no-one will catch it and the figures will say zero, but the problem is that a lockdown can't go on forever, and consequently people will argue that lockdowns don't work because eventually you have to come out of a lockdown and the whole problem starts again, just delayed by 2 months. The government are trying to stop the nhs being overwhelmed, which must be working because the nhs appears not to be overwhelmed, but at what cost to the general health of the nation 12 months down the line, no-one knows what it could be like.

Absolutely - a point eloquently expressed by Alf Bentley - in particular the long term costs of lockdown which have been debated extensively on this thread. My post was simply in response to those on Thursday that claimed "lockdown doesn't work" and to reiterate, it is not a strategy that is employed in isolation of a range of other measures. 

 

Regarding the future, these policies will remain until the widespread availability and implementation of a programme of vaccination.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

An opinion on what the best response would be to the pandemic until a vaccine is ready that would minimise the cost in lives and money.

whatever the government is suggesting really, I don't know how I can expand on that..... until the vaccine is rolled out globally we just have to abide by the rules the problem is bigger than the vaccine though.

 

who's to say the vaccine will effectively work and we then have to wait another year a new one and if it does work what happens if another virus appears almost straight after... this could go on for years imo as its a blanket to change the way society lives, climate change, eco systems etc.. imo of course LineX will be falling of his chair reading this I expect a laugh emjoi is incoming 

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4 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

whatever the government is suggesting really, I don't know how I can expand on that..... until the vaccine is rolled out globally we just have to abide by the rules the problem is bigger than the vaccine though.

 

who's to say the vaccine will effectively work and we then have to wait another year a new one and if it does work what happens if another virus appears almost straight after... this could go on for years imo as its a blanket to change the way society lives, climate change, eco systems etc.. imo of course LineX will be falling of his chair reading this I expect a laugh emjoi is incoming 

Fair enough.

 

Personally, I have no reason to doubt the vaccine and the researchers who have worked on it - some politicians may play consiprationally in order to increase their personal power but the way I see it the scientists who have actually made it work have precious little interest in that and if they cannot be trusted...well, no one can and things just collapse.

 

Regarding the latter part of the post, FWIW I think humanity needs to adapt to the effects of climate change that are on the way, and while those changes may be subtle or drastic (or most likely a mix of both) almost all of them would be preferable to the alternative where nothing is done because that road leads only to a death count in the millions and a migrant count likely in the billions.

Edited by leicsmac
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1 hour ago, The Blur said:

 

 

Aye,  I also went down this route with my wife (17 weeks now)  too but do your research with these companies as obviously they would be more driven by profit than NHS-  I have read some questionable stories about their practice but it it is likely to be isolated examples rather than general consensus!

 

All the best with the pregnancy @DennisNedry and @Fktf-  it is quite a journey as I am sure you two have experienced by now! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We went to a place in Wigston (more interested in selling us shite than doing the scan), and then Hinckley (brilliant - told them we were there for peace of mind, and they talked us through the scan, showing all the organs and limbs and the like).

 

Cheers for the well wishes mate, hope it goes smooth for you. We're just coming to end of 'the fourth trimester' now, so give us a shout if you have any questions about what is to come!

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13 minutes ago, Lionator said:

The reason the rules are tighter is because a vaccine is coming, if there was no prospect of it then they'd have to look at ways beyond it. But we have three months now to save as many lives as possible.

You do know that we have had no excess deaths since June and the average age of people who die from covid are 82?.Suggest you take a look at the World Economic forum and the great reset

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