Coronavirus Thread

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

38 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Wrong.

 

If refusal to do so endangers the lives of others. 

Can’t agree with you on this point, what you’re saying is people should be forced to have the vaccine against their will, that’s about the gist of it, that’s wrong.

[whoareyaaa]

42 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Wrong.

 

If refusal to do so endangers the lives of others. 

it's not going to be mandatory though.

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

it's not going to be mandatory though.

No it's not, but you can bet your life that you won't be able to fly to other countries and probably not allowed in places like the KP. 

[whoareyaaa]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

No it's not, but you can bet your life that you won't be able to fly to other countries and probably not allowed in places like the KP. 

I think that is just a rumour and has been brushed aside, air travel may try to make it mandatory but can't see it myself.

[Costock_Fox]

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

Theres a lot of talk this morning about  a vaccine passport system. Where you have to provide proof of a jab to enter any establishnent. 

 

No one should be forced to put something in their body they don't want.. Ever. 

Do you drink tap water?

[yorkie1999]

Just now, whoareyaaa said:

I think that is just a rumour and has been brushed aside, air travel may try to make it mandatory but can't see it myself.

It's not that airlines will make it mandatory, it's the countries at the other end.

[whoareyaaa]

Just now, yorkie1999 said:

It's not that airlines will make it mandatory, it's the countries at the other end.

yes could be a problem depends on the country I guess

[SpacedX]

15 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

it's not going to be mandatory though.

No it's not, but I wasn't necessarily or solely referring to the Covid 19 vaccine. 

[Guest Harrydc]

If those who are vulnerable and old have the vaccine then what's the issue if someone who hasn't had it wants to go to a pub or even go to work? 

 

For those unfer 65 with no underlying health conditions the survival rate is around 99.95%.

[SpacedX]

Just now, Harrydc said:

If those who are vulnerable and old have the vaccine then what's the issue if someone who hasn't had it wants to go to a pub or even go to work? 

 

Seriously - how many times does this have to be explained to you? 

[Mickyblueeyes]

• Leicester: 17,519

• Blaby: 3,110

• Charnwood: 6,295

• Harborough: 2,029

• Hinckley and Bosworth: 2,497

• Melton: 1,120

• North West Leicestershire: 2,313

• Oadby and Wigston: 2,443

Latest figures from the Merc. Good news is that the latest figures are the lowest daily increase in a week. Blaby had the second highest after Leicester (city) and remains a "problem". Charnwood was third but perhaps their figures are linked to the uni. 

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Harrydc said:

Theres a lot of talk this morning about  a vaccine passport system. Where you have to provide proof of a jab to enter any establishnent. 

 

No one should be forced to put something in their body they don't want.. Ever. 

Not too dis-similar to entry requirements of a number of countries. 
 

Unless you want to invalidate your travel insurance 

[SpacedX]

18 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Not too dis-similar to entry requirements of a number of countries. 
 

Unless you want to invalidate your travel insurance 

...Or depending upon the destination risk contracting cholera, diphtheria, hepatitis A or B, meningococcal meningitis,

polio, yellow fever, tetanus, rabies, encephalitis, TB, typhoid or yellow fever. 

Edited 1 December 2020 by Line-X

[yorkie1999]

22 minutes ago, Line-X said:

...Or depending upon the destination risk contracting cholera, diphtheria, hepatitis A or B, meningococcal meningitis,

polio, yellow fever, tetanus, rabies, encephalitis, TB, typhoid or yellow fever. 

And people have vaccinations for all those things yet are moaning about an extra one.

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

And people have vaccinations for all those things yet are moaning about an extra one.

Ignoring the anti-vax lunatics (which actually I try to do) I think the concern is over the fact that it is a novel vaccine that has been rushed to market. Nonetheless, the trails have been extensive (particularly in the case of the Pfizer product) and no issues have emerged within two months of monitoring which is the period that problems tend to arise. 

[whoareyaaa]

2 hours ago, Line-X said:

Ignoring the anti-vax lunatics (which actually I try to do) I think the concern is over the fact that it is a novel vaccine that has been rushed to market. Nonetheless, the trails have been extensive (particularly in the case of the Pfizer product) and no issues have emerged within two months of monitoring which is the period that problems tend to arise. 

Don't you think two months is a little short I know they have more tools and data than we do but are there no long term effects that could arise? And is the amount of people it's been tested on enough? 

[Dunge]

16 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Don't you think two months is a little short I know they have more tools and data than we do but are there no long term effects that could arise? And is the amount of people it's been tested on enough? 

First of all, I’d say that the fact these potential vaccines are currently being assessed by regulatory authorities is precisely to address these concerns and more. Essentially, the foremost experts in the field around the world are reviewing this. It’ll be interesting to see what, if anything, they say about the “wrong dose” situation of the Oxford vaccine, which has caused a bit of a stir within the community. (Although it should be said it shouldn’t have an impact on safety assessments.)

 

But to address the two questions: These vaccines were tested on thousands and thousands of people. And when a participant has gone to hospital it’s been front page headlines. You may remember someone in America ending up in hospital and the Oxford vaccine trial halting. I understand this caused them to break the double-blind for this individual and find out that actually they were in the placebo group. But this should demonstrate not only that they’re being careful, but also that nothing’s going to be hidden with this. Besides, imagine what would happen if there were widespread medical problems following a vaccine rollout. There would be mass panic, a plummet in compliance and even worse problems for the world. It makes no sense as a plan to put something risky on the market.

 

Regarding the short time frames, this would probably be my greatest concern too, but frankly the same could be said for COVID itself. And there’s a significant percentage of people who have contracted the virus who are finding just that in Long COVID. But it’s also important to remember what the vaccines consist of. Essentially, it’s not a vial of magic mystery juice being injected into your bloodstream and hoping for the best. There are different ways each vaccine works, but typically they’re the equivalent of versions of the virus that have been modified to make it harmless. It’s like creating our own deliberately mutated version of the virus. And if that sounds scary, it shouldn’t. Mutations generally weaken viruses. A big problem with this virus is that it’s too consistent and not mutating enough - it stays just as vicious. And what we’ve done is weakened it, mutated it, tested it in both thousands of volunteers and in many lab tests before that and - pending the assessment of the regulators - come up with something safe and effective in training the immune system to fight the real thing before we encounter it.

 

Long story short, if and when the call comes, get to your GP, get your arm out and get that needle in it. Then go back again in a month’s time to do it again. And then you’ve played your part in getting rid of these damn restrictions.

[SpacedX]

31 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Don't you think two months is a little short I know they have more tools and data than we do but are there no long term effects that could arise? And is the amount of people it's been tested on enough? 

The issue you want to consider is size, because it tells you how rare of an event you can detect, The vaccine candidates in late stage trials undertaken by Pfizer and Moderna are actually considered to be large because they incorporated in excess of 30,000 volunteers each I think Pfizer involved some 43,500 volunteers. Both organisations also recruited a diverse group of participants and included people of different ages and medical backgrounds. Moderna’s trial, for instance, enrolled 5,000 people with high-risk chronic diseases.

 

Of course, appreciating that this is a brand-new type of vaccine, it is not inconceivable that someone could be allergic to it, but like I said, this would usually manifest itself immediately following administration of the vaccine. In the US, The FDA mandates that vaccine developers submit two months of follow-up safety data as part of the application for emergency use ensuring that drugmakers can monitor trial participants for any serious safety issues after vaccination. For trials in the UK, the vaccine and the trial must receive individual approval from the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), who will independently track the results. If you go beyond 10 million people, you can never eliminate the chance that there will be a very small proportion that might respond in a abnormal way, but we are going to have to accept that there are going to be risks. Saying that, to a greater or lesser extent nothing that we do in life is entirely devoid of risk. Almost invariably, most side effects from vaccines will occur within 60 days of receiving the shot. As I suggested in a previous post, we could wait six months, a year or two years to have sufficient data, but should we withhold the vaccine from the  population for two years because we want flawless data?  Of course, we do, but given where we are in the midst of a pandemic right now, and the threat that it poses to the vulnerable - in addition to the devastating socio-economic impact of continued lockdowns, we have to find that balance.

[dsr-burnley]

Ask me 6 months ago, and I've have been wary about such a short tested vaccine.  Ask me now, and you can stick what you want in my arm if it gives us a chance of getting out of the house.  If a nice Romany lady comes to the door offering a bit of lucky heather and a coronavirus vaccine, I'll take it.

[Nod.E]

Going to be tough on the vaccine thing.

 

The temptation is to tell the idiots that they're being idiots and punish those not willing to take the vaccine. But that will only push them further the other way. 

 

It will need very careful communication and management, this.

 

Give them a sniff of authority or a sense they're being coerced and it will backfire. It needs to some how be positioned in a way that makes them believe it's their idea or to their benefit.

 

The 'Can't make me wear a mask', 'Take back control' lot simply will not respond if they feel imposed upon. They're an incredibly insecure bunch. I'd know, plenty of them in my family. I'm not sure celebrities telling people it's the right thing to do is the right play.

 

I've been the first to be sceptical of this government and the measures introduced to tackle this pandemic, but given a route out of this I am only too happy to play my part.

 

Forget the conspiracy nuts, there's no winning them over. It's the somewhat selfish 'I'll sit back while everyone else takes the vaccine' types that need winning over.

 

The alternative of continued deaths and (more importantly in my view) continued restrictions and the implications to business and wider society and long term deaths associated, is monstrous in comparison to the tiny risk associated with taking a vaccine that is probably more researched with more expert global opinion than any other vaccine in the history of planet earth.

 

It's those factors that need to be made abundantly clear. Usage of words like 'opportunity', finding a way to demystify the vaccine itself and subtly presenting the alternative. That's how you get people on side.

 

[StanSP]

UK approves Pfizer vaccine to be used from next week. 

 

Great news 

[Bellend Sebastian]

Great news, obviously, but if the roll out could be delayed just a little bit more will be spared the devastating effects of a family Christmas

[Bellend Sebastian]

7 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Going to be tough on the vaccine thing.

 

The temptation is to tell the idiots that they're being idiots and punish those not willing to take the vaccine. But that will only push them further the other way. 

 

It will need very careful communication and management, this.

 

Give them a sniff of authority or a sense they're being coerced and it will backfire. It needs to some how be positioned in a way that makes them believe it's their idea or to their benefit.

 

The 'Can't make me wear a mask', 'Take back control' lot simply will not respond if they feel imposed upon. They're an incredibly insecure bunch. I'd know, plenty of them in my family. I'm not sure celebrities telling people it's the right thing to do is the right play.

 

I've been the first to be sceptical of this government and the measures introduced to tackle this pandemic, but given a route out of this I am only too happy to play my part.

 

Forget the conspiracy nuts, there's no winning them over. It's the somewhat selfish 'I'll sit back while everyone else takes the vaccine' types that need winning over.

 

The alternative of continued deaths and (more importantly in my view) continued restrictions and the implications to business and wider society and long term deaths associated, is monstrous in comparison to the tiny risk associated with taking a vaccine that is probably more researched with more expert global opinion than any other vaccine in the history of planet earth.

 

It's those factors that need to be made abundantly clear. Usage of words like 'opportunity', finding a way to demystify the vaccine itself and subtly presenting the alternative. That's how you get people on side.

 

I'm not usually an authoritarian but I think it SHOULD be made compulsory, just so there's the prospect of seeing Laurence Fox, Ian Brown etc and their ilk being forcibly bundled into a police van.

 

We all get to be protected, and they get to be genuinely oppressed which I think is all they want anyway.

 

Everybody wins

[Innovindil]

7 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Going to be tough on the vaccine thing.

 

The temptation is to tell the idiots that they're being idiots and punish those not willing to take the vaccine. But that will only push them further the other way. 

 

It will need very careful communication and management, this.

 

Give them a sniff of authority or a sense they're being coerced and it will backfire. It needs to some how be positioned in a way that makes them believe it's their idea or to their benefit.

 

The 'Can't make me wear a mask', 'Take back control' lot simply will not respond if they feel imposed upon. They're an incredibly insecure bunch. I'd know, plenty of them in my family. I'm not sure celebrities telling people it's the right thing to do is the right play.

 

I've been the first to be sceptical of this government and the measures introduced to tackle this pandemic, but given a route out of this I am only too happy to play my part.

 

Forget the conspiracy nuts, there's no winning them over. It's the somewhat selfish 'I'll sit back while everyone else takes the vaccine' types that need winning over.

 

The alternative of continued deaths and (more importantly in my view) continued restrictions and the implications to business and wider society and long term deaths associated, is monstrous in comparison to the tiny risk associated with taking a vaccine that is probably more researched with more expert global opinion than any other vaccine in the history of planet earth.

 

It's those factors that need to be made abundantly clear. Usage of words like 'opportunity', finding a way to demystify the vaccine itself and subtly presenting the alternative. That's how you get people on side.

 

Easy solution. Have all MP's take the vaccine and air it on tele. The narrative will change from "they're gonna force us to take it" to "why do those privileged bastards get it but we don't". Queue made rush for the doors. 

[Thefox81]

Great news to wake up to. Best christmas present we all could have wished for.