Coronavirus Thread

[CosbehFox]

24 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Weird that he's insisting that's the first restriction lifted when it's been repeatedly shown that schools are one of, if not the, leading cause in transmission.

 

Gyms, pubs, and shops all have a stronger case than opening the schools. 

Problem is that those places mentioned in your last sentence are linked. If the gyms, pubs and shops open who looks after the kids of those who work in those sectors? 
 

Having the kids in school removes a huge obstacle to the government. 
 

They have shown complete inability to think different - maybe a 4 day week with a 1 furlough (therefore kids are covered for 2 days in two parent families), schools doing split shifts or 2.5 days in, 2.5 days out. It just isn’t in their minds to think outside the box. They are effectively thick, the government doesn’t possess intelligent people 

[foxile5]

Just now, Cardiff_Fox said:

Problem is that those places mentioned in your last sentence are linked. If the gyms, pubs and shops open who looks after the kids of those who work in those sectors? 
 

Having the kids in school removes a huge obstacle to the government. 
 

They have shown complete inability to think different - maybe a 4 day week with a 1 furlough (therefore kids are covered for 2 days in two parent families), schools doing split shifts or 2.5 days in, 2.5 days out. It just isn’t in their minds to think outside the box. They are effectively thick, the government doesn’t possess intelligent people 

Schools have mooted rotas and reduced timetables plenty enough - it just hasn't been listened to.

 

I totally appreciate the first point - by the way - but that's under normal conditions where both parents are working; these aren't normal conditions and I'd be willing to bet there are more than enough households that could provide adequate care whilst parents are working. Only a hunch, mind, but an informed enough one.

[CosbehFox]

‘We’ve done everything we can’ he says 

 

Earlier on in the day, him and his cabinet were sat around a table saying to restrict quarantine to ‘hot spots’, rather than the entire world. 
 

In my career, you plan for the worst outcome and anything better than that is good. Boris has repeatedly just closed his eyes, ignore advice/evidence and just hope it all goes away. Don’t want to suggest that’s a symptom of a privileged upbringing where everything is laid out for you and paid for....

Edited 27 January 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[LVFox]

Cant help but feel the "We need to wait until this is all over and review what we could have done better" is a little like noticing your curtains are on fire and instead of putting them out, waiting until the entire house burns down.

 

[foxile5]

1 minute ago, LVocey said:

Cant help but feel the "We need to wait until this is all over and review what we could have done better" is a little like noticing your curtains are on fire and instead of putting them out, waiting until the entire house burns down.

 

To act and amend existing plans would be to admit failure in the moment - this government won't do that. They're rather the proles die.

[Dahnsouff]

16 minutes ago, LVocey said:

Cant help but feel the "We need to wait until this is all over and review what we could have done better" is a little like noticing your curtains are on fire and instead of putting them out, waiting until the entire house burns down.

 

Bit of a strange comparison and without any value, but lets go with it for now - what should they do - right now?

[Dahnsouff]

21 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

‘We’ve done everything we can’ he says 

 

Earlier on in the day, him and his cabinet were sat around a table saying to restrict quarantine to ‘hot spots’, rather than the entire world. 
 

In my career, you plan for the worst outcome and anything better than that is good. Boris has repeatedly just closed his eyes, ignore advice/evidence and just hope it all goes away. Don’t want to suggest that’s a symptom of a privileged upbringing where everything is laid out for you and paid for....

He clearly hasn`t - no-one disputes this surely?

 

My only gripe is taking the time to throw mud and find out exactly what went wrong is distracting from the clear path to vaccine rollout.

It is an absolute shit show of the worst kind and they are largely responsible, they must be held to account but I can wait until my, your, everyone's people at risk are safer thank you very much

[Kopfkino]

Obviously a review at this point would be stupid.

 

The government has only sporadically shown an ability to learn from its mistakes, I grant you, but having some ‘review’ conducted properly, wouldn’t really deliver much actionable insight in any useful timeframe and would be heavily distracting. Yeah, the government has to learn, and preferably it would have done more of that.

 

I would suggest the political culture and the nature of the media inhibit the ability of governments to learn, sometimes made worse or better by the individuals involved. It’s not like government is agile and works iteratively and I don’t really know how best to foster that mindset in governments, where outcomes are less driven by the personality of an office holder.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Kopfkino said:

Obviously a review at this point would be stupid.

 

The government has only sporadically shown an ability to learn from its mistakes, I grant you, but having some ‘review’ conducted properly, wouldn’t really deliver much actionable insight in any useful timeframe and would be heavily distracting. Yeah, the government has to learn, and preferably it would have done more of that.

 

I would suggest the political culture and the nature of the media inhibit the ability of governments to learn, sometimes made worse or better by the individuals involved. It’s not like government is agile and works iteratively and I don’t really know how best to foster that mindset in governments, where outcomes are less driven by the personality of an office holder.

Transfer its ownership entirely to a PLC  

 

oh wait.....

[Jon the Hat]

29 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

‘We’ve done everything we can’ he says 

 

Earlier on in the day, him and his cabinet were sat around a table saying to restrict quarantine to ‘hot spots’, rather than the entire world. 
 

In my career, you plan for the worst outcome and anything better than that is good. Boris has repeatedly just closed his eyes, ignore advice/evidence and just hope it all goes away. Don’t want to suggest that’s a symptom of a privileged upbringing where everything is laid out for you and paid for....

Then I suggest you would be pretty useless running a major country though a pandemic with few facts and lots of differing opinions.

I agree Boris has delayed some key decisions until the decision was clearer, but lets not pretend they were easy decisions.  You talk as if there are no long term side effects of every decision made to close businesses, to limit freedoms and close schools.  

[Kopfkino]

Actually thinking about it, the government has acted too iteratively at times instead of going for the jugular to be on the safe side.

 

The big problem is admitting failure, not changing course, and being paralysed by fear of failure from making a decision. 
In Black Box Thinking, Syed speaks bout how Tony Blair still thinks the Iraq War was the right choice. Boris probably thinks he’s done everything he can and the nature of the political environment and the media means you just can’t admit mistakes/failure.

[LVFox]

16 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Bit of a strange comparison and without any value, but lets go with it for now - what should they do - right now?

I mean, I did say "A little like".

 

Honest answer, no idea - i'm in no way smart enough or specialised in a field that lends itself to dealing with a pandemic, so to pretend I had any answers would be foolish.

 

As a general member of public I'd like to see clear easy to follow signs that a lockdown is easing, or what needs to happen for it to ease. % of hospital capacities, daily case numbers, vaccinated numbers, R rates, give us key indicators and thresholds these need to be under/over for things to ease. I know that info is probably there if I wanted to search for it, but don't rely on the average member of the public to do that, give us a weekly update.

 

The vagueness of when things could ease, how things could ease make it feel like it's going to go on for ever, and then people get selfish. The first lockdown had a sense of togetherness because in fairness, data was presented in a very easy to read way to the general public in good regularity.

 

This may be an awful take....but actually, communications have been really poor since Cummins left.

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Then I suggest you would be pretty useless running a major country though a pandemic with few facts and lots of differing opinions.

I agree Boris has delayed some key decisions until the decision was clearer, but lets not pretend they were easy decisions.  You talk as if there are no long term side effects of every decision made to close businesses, to limit freedoms and close schools.  

Still be better than the mug in charge - his decision making is absolutely appalling. Make a mistake once, don't make it again, again and again. 

 

Kopfkino just summed it up well in the post above

Edited 27 January 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[CosbehFox]

21 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

He clearly hasn`t - no-one disputes this surely?

Well his actual words yesterday afternoon were the following :

 

“What I can tell you is that we truly did everything we could, and continue to do everything that we can, to minimise loss of life and to minimise suffering in what has been a very, very difficult stage, and a very, very difficult crisis for our country, and we will continue to do that.”

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, LVocey said:

I mean, I did say "A little like".

 

Honest answer, no idea - i'm in no way smart enough or specialised in a field that lends itself to dealing with a pandemic, so to pretend I had any answers would be foolish.

 

As a general member of public I'd like to see clear easy to follow signs that a lockdown is easing, or what needs to happen for it to ease. % of hospital capacities, daily case numbers, vaccinated numbers, R rates, give us key indicators and thresholds these need to be under/over for things to ease. I know that info is probably there if I wanted to search for it, but don't rely on the average member of the public to do that, give us a weekly update.

 

The vagueness of when things could ease, how things could ease make it feel like it's going to go on for ever, and then people get selfish. The first lockdown had a sense of togetherness because in fairness, data was presented in a very easy to read way to the general public in good regularity.

 

This may be an awful take....but actually, communications have been really poor since Cummins left.

You are going to start trouble with that talk  

Seriously for a moment, it is horrid, the whole period of the pandemic is littered with mistakes, the question becomes were they avoidable? What could we have done better?

This certainly won`t be the last one we see, so we need to up our game as learn how to do just that.

 

I do actually agree that communications has one of the biggest glaring problems (Would not put that down to Cummings leraving mind! I ain`t that brave!)

 

Boris was wrong man too, we actually needed a leader more than a friend, but lets learn these lessons when have time to respond rightly to them.

[LVFox]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

You are going to start trouble with that talk  

Seriously for a moment, it is horrid, the whole period of the pandemic is littered with mistakes, the question becomes were they avoidable? What could we have done better?

This certainly won`t be the last one we see, so we need to up our game as learn how to do just that.

 

I do actually agree that communications has one of the biggest glaring problems (Would not put that down to Cummings leraving mind! I ain`t that brave!)

 

Boris was wrong man too, we actually needed a leader more than a friend, but lets learn these lessons when have time to respond rightly to them.

I agree that it isn't the right time for a full inquest. As you've said, mission number 1 has to be vaccinations, and that seems to be going well.

 

But I just think the rejection of any criticism until after the pandemic makes the government look like they have no interest in learning as they go along. 

[Dahnsouff]

6 minutes ago, LVocey said:

I agree that it isn't the right time for a full inquest. As you've said, mission number 1 has to be vaccinations, and that seems to be going well.

 

But I just think the rejection of any criticism until after the pandemic makes the government look like they have no interest in learning as they go along. 

Fair enough, I view his comments as just more sticks to beat the government with when the inevitable review takes place. People saying there won`t be a review because of blah, blah, blah miss the point, MAKING SURE THERE IS A REVIEW is our grandstand moment, the show of public pressure ensuring it goes on.

 

Maybe change.org will have its day in the sun after all....

 

Edited 27 January 2021 by Dahnsouff

[Leicester_Loyal]

312,770 vaccinations announced today.

 

311,060 first doses.

1710 second doses.

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

 

 

[Costock_Fox]

14 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

312,770 vaccinations announced today.

 

311,060 first doses.

1710 second doses.

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

 

 

Anyone know why we were doing half a mil a day last week?

[Stivo]

11 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Anyone know why we were doing half a mil a day last week?

It seems to grow during the week, perhaps the centres cannot book until they receive a batch early in the week?

[Leicester_Loyal]

23 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Anyone know why we were doing half a mil a day last week?

Could be a number of issues, vaccine supply, the weather (harder to get older people to centres in the snow, more dangerous for them etc.), some places might be doing the final few over 80s before starting on the next category or something.

 

Be nice if it was over 350k daily, two or three 450k+ days will really push the numbers up.

[Leicester_Loyal]

March 8th for (some) schools to start reopening Boris reckons.

[Carl the Llama]

 

[Insert South Park clip here]

[filbertway]

Can anyone more in the know than me explain why there are 25,000 positive cases announced today but the date on the gov site only has about 3,000 (although it does say 25,308)?

 

I realise it says incomplete, but if it's incomplete then how can they announce a figure?

 

Edited 27 January 2021 by filbertway

[filbertway]

On the plus side, at the end of next week it'll be a full 4 weeks since people decided to have their fun over christmas (based on the assumption that people will have been more inclined to mix between 22nd Dec - 2nd Jan) , so I imagine we'll start to see the fall in deaths starting from then. Although I imagine the big drop off won't kick in till the back end of Feb as we've still been suffering from the high amount of cases for a while.