Coronavirus Thread

[Leicester_Loyal]

4 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said:

My mum got a call today to go in on Saturday to get her vaccine, she is in her 70's. Does that mean all the 80+ and vulnerable people have all been done now?  

Depends on the area, but likely they've pretty much done them all now, so can start with the next category group. The last few 80+ people will probably be spread out over a number of days and mixed in with another category.

[dsr-burnley]

6 hours ago, Parafox said:

It's taken 5 weeks so far and now I have reached the verification and online training stage of my application to be a vaccinator. There are 22 different e-learning courses I have to complete and the time it takes is estimated as 12.5 hours! For example: Fire safety, Manual Handling, Adult and child Safeguarding. Equality and Diversity, Risk Management, 

Is it any wonder so many have reached this stage and thought "**** it"?

Some of the courses I have already completed during my time with EMAS, I hope that those results will be transferrable.

Because in the NHS mindset (the administrators, not the people doing the actual work) it is more important to follow procedure than to do the job.  If anyone with any sense was asked "which is better, A- 1,000 people get a jab from a qualified doctor whose Risk Management traiing isn't up to date; or B- none of them get vaccinated and one or two of them die.  Then we all know the answer.  There are people who work for the NHS who disagree.

 

If a qualified doctor or nurse applies for a job on Monday morning, they can use Monday afternoon to check that they are still on the medical register and that they are who they claim to be, and they can start work on Tuesday.  That's how it should be.  Assuming there are two people in the room with the patient there is no need for both of them to have every letter of the "qualifications" anyway.

 

 

[Spudulike]

 

[SpacedX]

12 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Makes you wonder how heroin addicts manage 

We don't necessarily mainline.

[Super_horns]

Sad isn’t it really .

 

A vaccine to save lives has now turned into a chance for a political points scoring game it seems.
 

[Carl the Llama]

13 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Sad isn’t it really .

 

A vaccine to save lives has now turned into a chance for a political points scoring game it seems.
 

I wouldn't call a scramble for supplies 'point scoring'.

[Super_horns]

20 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I wouldn't call a scramble for supplies 'point scoring'.

No but it seems the EU are trying to get our supplies maybe knowing they don’t have enough?

[Carl the Llama]

12 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

No but it seems the EU are trying to get our supplies maybe knowing they don’t have enough?

The reports I've read are more nuanced than that, but yes that's the spin the right-wing rags are putting on it.  What we're seeing is nations/blocs competing for scarce resources because vaccine manufacturers are unable to produce fast enough to keep up with demand.  

[leicsmac]

26 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

The reports I've read are more nuanced than that, but yes that's the spin the right-wing rags are putting on it.  What we're seeing is nations/blocs competing for scarce resources because vaccine manufacturers are unable to produce fast enough to keep up with demand.  

Which doesn't exactly bode well for a future when a more...pointed crisis comes along and another vital resource - or even more than one - becomes scarce.

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Which doesn't exactly bode well for a future when a more...pointed crisis comes along and another vital resource - or even more than one - becomes scarce.

Exactly, which is why "point scoring" doesn't really cover it.

[filbertway]

Is the general gist that we ordered x amount and the EU ordered x amount.

 

Due to an issue with one of the production plants in Belgium they can't meet the quota. We are still getting our full order but the EU aren't getting there's. So they're asking if we will split?

 

Is that right?

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Exactly, which is why "point scoring" doesn't really cover it.

TBH I would say "point scoring" - as in trying to get one over on a perceived rival - is exactly what it is, in the context of getting supplies for "your" team.

 

It's also ridiculous and indicative of an attitude that can and will have far more dire consequences if climate change, for instance, causes half the resource issues it's believed it might do.

Edited 28 January 2021 by leicsmac

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Is the general gist that we ordered x amount and the EU ordered x amount.

 

Due to an issue with one of the production plants in Belgium they can't meet the quota. We are still getting our full order but the EU aren't getting there's. So they're asking if we will split?

 

Is that right?

Issues in Belgium and the Netherlands.  What isn't clear is how much of the Europe-side shortfall is responsible for the total contractual shortfall between the EU and AZ.  I'm yet to see that particular point covered.

[yorkie1999]

12 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Is the general gist that we ordered x amount and the EU ordered x amount.

 

Due to an issue with one of the production plants in Belgium they can't meet the quota. We are still getting our full order but the EU aren't getting there's. So they're asking if we will split?

 

Is that right?

No, astrazeneca signed a contract with the UK government to manufacture the vaccine that was developed in oxford that would guarantee supply to the UK . The EU signed a different contract 3 months later for astrazeneca to supply them with the vaccine, but was a best effort contract, so the plants supplying the UK had a 3 month head start in ironing out any production problems and the plants supplying the EU are 3 months behind but are starting to ramp up production as teething problems are sorted out. But i think the EU are pissed off because the UK is getting a guaranteed supply, where as they are not.

[Stivo]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

The reports I've read are more nuanced than that, but yes that's the spin the right-wing rags are putting on it.  What we're seeing is nations/blocs competing for scarce resources because vaccine manufacturers are unable to produce fast enough to keep up with demand.  

It is certainly a lot more nuanced, and from what I can understand it actually reflects very well on the UK government.

 

Firstly in talking about vaccine manufacture, we need to understand the scale.  This is nothing like the scale of a car factory or brewing plant. 
 

In order to make a million doses you need to produce just 200L of adrenovirus.  ( two domestic baths full). That process takes a month. What you need is a sterile clean room, a bioreactor ( a metal tank the size of a fridge freezer) plus some other equipment for various process steps ( and some highly skilled people).

 

At the start of the pandemic the uk worried about vaccine nationalism and decided that it needed a strategic vaccine manufacturing capability.  It created a non profit called VMIC and funded it to build a dedicated vaccine manufacturing and research centre which should open in the summer this year.  It’s in Oxford.

 

https://www.vmicuk.com

 

Now in the short term, although there was no major vaccine manufacturer in the U.K. there were some university spin-offs that were capable of manufacturing.  So the uk created a virtual VMIC consortium capable of temporary manufacturing until the real VMIC is complete.  This consists of Oxford biomedica, Cobra in Keele ,wockhart  in Wrexham and Halix in Holland.  VMIC provided two extra bioreactors ( I guess these will eventually move to the main VMIC) and funded the expansion of the Biomedica site to fit them in.

 

https://www.ukri.org/news/uks-rapid-response-vaccines-manufacturing-centre-now-approved/

 

Astra Zeneca were chosen by Oxford university to commercialise and deliver the vaccine.  Astra Zeneca do not so far as I know own any vaccine manufacturing sites.  Their delivery model e.g in India as an example is therefore that they contract with a local partner to do the manufacturing.

 

When the uk government signed a deal with AZ, I would guess that the UK  said to them here are the local suppliers that we have chosen for you to use.  The UK and AZ would therefore I assume have signed a contract to deliver using the UK virtual VMIC and the contract from what it sounds like would have restricted their use for other deliveries until the UK had received its doses.

 

Whe the EU approached AZ they planned to deliver to them using Halix ( as the UK seemingly no longer needed it),  a company in Belgium, a company in Germany for the bottling and later expand using the U.K. companies ( cobra and Oxford) when they had completed the U.K.

it would seem that at least at the top level the EU didn’t understand this.

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 January 2021 by Stivo
Added link

[UpTheLeagueFox]

The EU expects us to bend over and help them after trying to shaft us when we had the sheer audacity to leave their cosy cartel.

 

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

The EU expects us to bend over and help them after trying to shaft us when we had the sheer audacity to leave their cosy cartel.

 

Can't wait for the similar arguments when a proper global crisis comes along tbh.

 

2060: "Fifty million Southern Europeans (and others) having to migrate because their land is no longer fit for growing crops and there's not enough potable water?

 

....Nah, fvck em."

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Can't wait for the similar arguments when a proper global crisis comes along tbh.

 

2060: "Fifty million Southern Europeans (and others) having to migrate because their land is no longer fit for growing crops and there's not enough potable water?

 

....Nah, fvck em."

I'd say welcome to Germany! Wheeeeeey. 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

I'd say welcome to Germany! Wheeeeeey. 

Point being, of course, that such effects are often systemic, the other European countries likely wouldn't be able to take the strain and so it would pivot on the UK in the end whether it wanted it to or not.

[Carl the Llama]

26 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

The EU expects us to bend over and help them after trying to shaft us when we had the sheer audacity to leave their cosy cartel.

 

The talksport clickbait shite is rubbing off on you Geoff.

Edited 28 January 2021 by Carl the Llama
And I guess it worked because I made this comment.

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Point being, of course, that such effects are often systemic, the other European countries likely wouldn't be able to take the strain and so it would pivot on the UK in the end whether it wanted it to or not.

Why would the UK be unaffected by this global climate change? If everywhere is shite, there's not going to be anywhere to migrate to is there. 

[leicsmac]

Just now, Innovindil said:

Why would the UK be unaffected by this global climate change? If everywhere is shite, there's not going to be anywhere to migrate to is there. 

Because the equatorial regions will be affected more severely first as they are naturally hotter throughout the year anyway.

 

And the domino effect begins from there.

 

Anyhow, to bring this back to the original point - the UK and EU can play silly buggers over this crisis because it's one that is probably still resolvable if they do. The next one might not be.

[Innovindil]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Because the equatorial regions will be affected more severely first as they are naturally hotter throughout the year anyway.

 

And the domino effect begins from there.

 

Anyhow, to bring this back to the original point - the UK and EU can play silly buggers over this crisis because it's one that is probably still resolvable if they do. The next one might not be.

Then we'll all end up in Russia anyways. 

 

And on the original point, I don't think either side are playing silly buggers. The eu have messed up their precurement and are trying to save face and as far as I'm aware the UK government haven't done anything wrong (in regards to getting the vaccines). They are already in enough shit with all the failings from the get go, if they then sent some of our order, which has been agreed to, paid for and made here over to the eu I think we'd see some real problems. Nothing wrong with helping yourself before others, I'm sure once all our lot are jabbed we'll happily ship everything left to the (hopefully but doubtfully thankful) EU. 

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

No, astrazeneca signed a contract with the UK government to manufacture the vaccine that was developed in oxford that would guarantee supply to the UK . The EU signed a different contract 3 months later for astrazeneca to supply them with the vaccine, but was a best effort contract, so the plants supplying the UK had a 3 month head start in ironing out any production problems and the plants supplying the EU are 3 months behind but are starting to ramp up production as teething problems are sorted out. But i think the EU are pissed off because the UK is getting a guaranteed supply, where as they are not.

Nice one, I'll obviously have to read into it all bit more

 

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Then we'll all end up in Russia anyways. 

 

And on the original point, I don't think either side are playing silly buggers. The eu have messed up their precurement and are trying to save face and as far as I'm aware the UK government haven't done anything wrong (in regards to getting the vaccines). They are already in enough shit with all the failings from the get go, if they then sent some of our order, which has been agreed to, paid for and made here over to the eu I think we'd see some real problems. Nothing wrong with helping yourself before others, I'm sure once all our lot are jabbed we'll happily ship everything left to the (hopefully but doubtfully thankful) EU. 

That's fair enough.

 

It just strikes me as an incredibly needless diplomatic spat (fuelled by a media needing to sell itself by telling people what they want to hear) and doesn't give me much hope that other needless diplomatic spats won't happen under more pressured conditions.