Coronavirus Thread

[Dunge]

49 minutes ago, Stivo said:

It seems to grow during the week, perhaps the centres cannot book until they receive a batch early in the week?

Just been watching today’s press conference. They got asked about this and one of the scientists said it was to be expected that it’ll vary given the stage of development and batch timings. I reckon part of it will be because they’re targeting harder-to-reach areas too.

 

Boris wouldn’t be drawn on the AstraZeneca/EU saga. Not sure I’d have been able to hold my tongue.

[Dahnsouff]

Sigh. No idea how accurate this is, but doubt it will end well

 

https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-inland/with-this-letter-by-jens-spahn-the-vaccine-disaster-in-the-eu-begann-74736986.bild.html

 

[reynard]

28 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Can anyone more in the know than me explain why there are 25,000 positive cases announced today but the date on the gov site only has about 3,000 (although it does say 25,308)?

 

I realise it says incomplete, but if it's incomplete then how can they announce a figure?

 

As far as I understand it the figure you see under the word daily applies to the number of positive cases registered today. That doesn't mean tests done today they can have been done anytime in the last 4 or 5 days. So if you look at say Melton in an area search you may get the daily total of 30 and you will see say 5 for the most recent date but if you check over a period of a few days you will see the numbers for the previous days increase each day until there are no more positive results due for that day. This is why the interactive map of cases for eg lags around 5 days behind the actual date.

 

The figures for Leicester are actually pretty bad and it is one of the few places where cases are either stagnant or rising slowly. Realy think local and national governemnt need a big focus on Leicester to see why this is and to try and do something about it as it will be having a detrimental effect on the county numbers too.  Just about all other big cities are seeing quite big falls in daily cases right now.

[Suzie the Fox]

My mum got a call today to go in on Saturday to get her vaccine, she is in her 70's. Does that mean all the 80+ and vulnerable people have all been done now?  

[surrifox]

13 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Sigh. No idea how accurate this is, but doubt it will end well

 

https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-inland/with-this-letter-by-jens-spahn-the-vaccine-disaster-in-the-eu-begann-74736986.bild.html

 

Quick we need to blame the Brits . Everyone will believe us , no-one thinks we can cock things up on this sort of scale 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

4 hours ago, Harrydc said:

Schools opening March 8th at the earliest...

 

4 hours ago, Super_horns said:

Will that satisfy both teachers and parents who might have have different concerns and priorities?

Whatever they do - with schools or other things - will be good for some and not for others.

There isn't and has never been a perfect scenario for everyone so there'll always be complaints.

 

1 minute ago, Suzie the Fox said:

My mum got a call today to go in on Saturday to get her vaccine, she is in her 70's. Does that mean all the 80+ and vulnerable people have all been done now?  

My mum is 78 and having her first jab on Friday.

[Col city fan]

3 hours ago, LVocey said:

Cant help but feel the "We need to wait until this is all over and review what we could have done better" is a little like noticing your curtains are on fire and instead of putting them out, waiting until the entire house burns down.

 

The term ‘lessons learnt’ is possibly one of the most oft used and meaningless phrases of the 21st century. It’s used as a catch all for any organisation or team who have fooked up, grandly, but it’s acceptable because apparently ‘lessons will be learnt’

Utter bollox

[Stivo]

39 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Boris wouldn’t be drawn on the AstraZeneca/EU saga

Best strategy. The UK government is a (currently) disinterested third party and he isn’t a lawyer.

 

what baffles me is that this is a £300M contract.  AZ and the EU have and had access to fleets of highly trained lawyers.  This dispute is not about some minor clause but the fundamental concept that the whole thing is about.  There will be mountains of stuff in there about compliance to packaging and labelling, liability etc etc, but this is page 1 stuff.
 

They both must have considered that delays were possible. They both knew that deliveries were already committed to the uk.

Surely this was discussed in detail?

 

I have some very limited training in contract law ( I used to be involved occasionally with our legal team as the technical expert in our products).  I know just enough to understand that you cannot  as a layman read a contract and interpret it as it sounds to you. Phrases like best efforts, best endeavours, reasonable endeavours, commercially reasonable endeavours, liquidated damages etc have legal meanings that have been established and may differ in different legal systems.

Edited 27 January 2021 by Stivo

[SpacedX]

6 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

The term ‘lessons learnt’ is possibly one of the most oft used and meaningless phrases of the 21st century. It’s used as a catch all for any organisation or team who have fooked up, grandly, but it’s acceptable because apparently ‘lessons will be learnt’

Utter bollox

[Parafox]

On 26/01/2021 at 16:48, The Fox Covert said:

The prominent person with a messy barnet that you are talking about just can't resist the oxygen of publicity!

 

[Parafox]

It's taken 5 weeks so far and now I have reached the verification and online training stage of my application to be a vaccinator. There are 22 different e-learning courses I have to complete and the time it takes is estimated as 12.5 hours! For example: Fire safety, Manual Handling, Adult and child Safeguarding. Equality and Diversity, Risk Management, 

Is it any wonder so many have reached this stage and thought "**** it"?

Some of the courses I have already completed during my time with EMAS, I hope that those results will be transferrable.

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, Parafox said:

It's taken 5 weeks so far and now I have reached the verification and online training stage of my application to be a vaccinator. There are 22 different e-learning courses I have to complete and the time it takes is estimated as 12.5 hours! For example: Fire safety, Manual Handling, Adult and child Safeguarding. Equality and Diversity, Risk Management, 

Is it any wonder so many have reached this stage and thought "**** it"?

Some of the courses I have already completed during my time with EMAS, I hope that those results will be transferrable.

I find this absolutely ridiculous tbh.

 

When I turned up for my jab, there were two nurses in the room. One at the computer asking me all the questions, and one who injected me. The 'vaccinator' just said "top of your arm", then ripped open the packet, stuck the needle in me, and that was it.

 

I can't believe you need to do 22 fvckin courses over 12.5 hours in order to do that. 

[Stivo]

11 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I can't believe you need to do 22 fvckin courses over 12.5 hours in order to do that.

But what if the building had caught fire?!

[surrifox]

9 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I find this absolutely ridiculous tbh.

 

When I turned up for my jab, there were two nurses in the room. One at the computer asking me all the questions, and one who injected me. The 'vaccinator' just said "top of your arm", then ripped open the packet, stuck the needle in me, and that was it.

 

I can't believe you need to do 22 fvckin courses over 12.5 hours in order to do that. 

You don’t . You just need someone trained  to watch the process willing to sign an affidavit that everything was in order and the action some dick is bringing against the NHS because the inoculation was wrongly administered/ caused him to become impotent/ lost him his dream job has no merit 

[Dunge]

37 minutes ago, Stivo said:

Best strategy. The UK government is a (currently) disinterested third party and he isn’t a lawyer.

 

what baffles me is that this is a £300M contract.  AZ and the EU have and had access to fleets of highly trained lawyers.  This dispute is not about some minor clause but the fundamental concept that the whole thing is about.  There will be mountains of stuff in there about compliance to packaging and labelling, liability etc etc, but this is page 1 stuff.
 

They both must have considered that delays were possible. They both knew that deliveries were already committed to the uk.

Surely this was discussed in detail?

 

I have some very limited training in contract law ( I used to be involved occasionally with our legal team as the technical expert in our products).  I know just enough to understand that you cannot  as a layman read a contract and interpret it as it sounds to you. Phrases like best efforts, best endeavours, reasonable endeavours, commercially reasonable endeavours, liquidated damages etc have legal meanings that have been established and may differ in different legal systems.

I agree soft diplomacy is the best way to go with this. It’s unfortunate that the EU are set on dragging us into this, now saying we and AZ have an obligation to hand over some vaccine to make up for delays in Belgium and the Netherlands.

 

I should clarify at this point that my regard for the powers-that-be in the EU was through the floor in the first place, but it’s reading to me right now like they’re making things up as they go along to cover their own incompetence, inexplicably angering a vaccine provider in the middle of a pandemic, and now trying to effectively steal our supplies. I’m finding it hard not to be angry about it, frankly.
 

Whether this contract gets made public, we’ll have to see. I’d be interested to know what you and others in the know with legal terminology make of it if it does. I do wonder why the EU are apparently demanding to see this contract though. Surely if they’re co-signatories they should have a copy?

[Stivo]

21 minutes ago, Parafox said:

It's taken 5 weeks so far and now I have reached the verification and online training stage of my application to be a vaccinator. There are 22 different e-learning courses I have to complete and the time it takes is estimated as 12.5 hours! For example: Fire safety, Manual Handling, Adult and child Safeguarding. Equality and Diversity, Risk Management, 

Is it any wonder so many have reached this stage and thought "**** it"?

Some of the courses I have already completed during my time with EMAS, I hope that those results will be transferrable.

I thought that Boris had said a few weeks ago that they were going to simplify this?

[surrifox]

11 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I agree soft diplomacy is the best way to go with this. It’s unfortunate that the EU are set on dragging us into this, now saying we and AZ have an obligation to hand over some vaccine to make up for delays in Belgium and the Netherlands.

 

I should clarify at this point that my regard for the powers-that-be in the EU was through the floor in the first place, but it’s reading to me right now like they’re making things up as they go along to cover their own incompetence, inexplicably angering a vaccine provider in the middle of a pandemic, and now trying to effectively steal our supplies. I’m finding it hard not to be angry about it, frankly.
 

Whether this contract gets made public, we’ll have to see. I’d be interested to know what you and others in the know with legal terminology make of it if it does. I do wonder why the EU are apparently demanding to see this contract though. Surely if they’re co-signatories they should have a copy?

AZ are supplying their vax at around £5 a shot compared to £25 for Pfizer and have stated they will supply third world countries at little or zero profit . They have nothing to gain by withholding supplies and no way are the bad guys in this . AZ is a UK/ Swedish company and at the end of the day are a commercial business ; perhaps Sweden might like to add their voice to the debate by cautioning the EU commissioners that they won’t allow slander to cover for their incompetence 

[oxford blue]

33 minutes ago, Parafox said:

It's taken 5 weeks so far and now I have reached the verification and online training stage of my application to be a vaccinator. There are 22 different e-learning courses I have to complete and the time it takes is estimated as 12.5 hours! For example: Fire safety, Manual Handling, Adult and child Safeguarding. Equality and Diversity, Risk Management, 

Is it any wonder so many have reached this stage and thought "**** it"?

Some of the courses I have already completed during my time with EMAS, I hope that those results will be transferrable.

Firstly, thank you for volunteering to be a vaccinator. I am sure many more will be needed with mass vaccination centres opening around the country.

 

The government (apparently)simplified procedures a few weeks ago; the number of courses you have to do appears to be bureaucratic nonsense. It should be the minimum necessary given there will always be a qualified medical professional available/around Equality/diversity - anyone at a vaccination centre will have to vaccinate whose ever turn it is. Safeguarding seems pointless given vaccinations take a minute or so at most - and no children are going to be vaccinated.

[DennisNedry]

4 hours ago, LVocey said:

Cant help but feel the "We need to wait until this is all over and review what we could have done better" is a little like noticing your curtains are on fire and instead of putting them out, waiting until the entire house burns down.

 

Surely conducting a review now would be like trying to figure out how the fire started and spread so quickly, rather than focusing on putting it out first?

[BKLFox]

We live a in blame culture world sadly, everyone has to cover their arses hence the paperwork I’d assume.

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, Stivo said:

I thought that Boris had said a few weeks ago that they were going to simplify this?

They haven't 

[foxile5]

The EU health commissioner is acting like a right tool. They're supposed to be free market regulators and not dictators. 

[The People's Hero]

14 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

The EU health commissioner is acting like a right tool. They're supposed to be free market regulators and not dictators. 

A rose by any other name?

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

I find this absolutely ridiculous tbh.

 

When I turned up for my jab, there were two nurses in the room. One at the computer asking me all the questions, and one who injected me. The 'vaccinator' just said "top of your arm", then ripped open the packet, stuck the needle in me, and that was it.

 

I can't believe you need to do 22 fvckin courses over 12.5 hours in order to do that. 

Makes you wonder how heroin addicts manage 

[Innovindil]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

I find this absolutely ridiculous tbh.

 

When I turned up for my jab, there were two nurses in the room. One at the computer asking me all the questions, and one who injected me. The 'vaccinator' just said "top of your arm", then ripped open the packet, stuck the needle in me, and that was it.

 

I can't believe you need to do 22 fvckin courses over 12.5 hours in order to do that. 

It's the world we live in. If anything goes wrong then someone has to take the blame, very rare to just chalk something up to an accident now. I had to do 8 full days at college on health and safety before they'd let me turn a machine on. A short weekend of e-courses doesn't seem that absurd when it's reguarding someone's health.