The OH Leuven Thread 2020/21

[baldeagle]

12 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...Grandmother is Welsh I believe...makes him Welsh so far as I am concerned!!!

Nah  he was born in England so definitely English 😉

[HighPeakFox]

It's worth saying at this point that Belgium is hardly alone within Europe when it comes to how countries came to be. I only say this because insufferable tossers in public life like to slag countries like Belgium off for 'not being a real country' out of pure ignorance.

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, baldeagle said:

Nah  he was born in England so definitely English 😉

Thanks I did try to find it on Wiki but just looked under Belgium not their Revolution.

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

It's worth saying at this point that Belgium is hardly alone within Europe when it comes to how countries came to be. I only say this because insufferable tossers in public life like to slag countries like Belgium off for 'not being a real country' out of pure ignorance.

I think it shows like Scotland that Countries are not prepared to be homogenised into one gigantic existence ruled from a single establishment.

[sacreblueits442]

8 minutes ago, baldeagle said:

Nah  he was born in England so definitely English 😉

...this is a debate that had been had for a very long time!!!

  I just cannot agree with you on this one.

[Houdini Logic]

Are the matches available to watch online or on any UK channels?

[davieG]

1 hour ago, KlaaZ said:

Enjoy the read.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Revolution

Thanks I did try to find it on Wiki but just looked under Belgium not their Revolution.

 

So pretty much religious based then which I guess is the reason for lot of Country boundaries in the World.

[baldeagle]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

Thanks I did try to find it on Wiki but just looked under Belgium not their Revolution.

Think you’ve e quoted the wrong person 🤷‍♂️

[davieG]

11 minutes ago, baldeagle said:

Think you’ve e quoted the wrong person 🤷‍♂️

Oops You're correct.

[mozartfox]

Are people from Wallonia called Wallies?

[Babylon]

On 13/01/2021 at 11:51, Lizhang said:

Just to be clear, i was kidding. OHL isn't owned by Leicester. Leicester didn't invest anything, @StriderHiryu, King Power did. While i'm sure both clubs will work together in mutual benefit, i very much doubt we will turn into a satellite or feeder club. That's not the way KP is communicating with OHL. And even if it were, let me remind you that King Power does not own the grounds, does not own the stadium, does not own the training facilities, doesn't even have the option to pull the money out of OHL that they put into it.

 

Young players that aren't good enough to play for Leicester yet, and that could grow at OHL, or players like Sowah who can't play in the UK at the time and need to get a work permit, sure. That will happen, but in such a situation if it is beneficial to both parties, and not one being a tool for the other. Should we sign or grow the next Tielemans, i'm sure he'll be off to Leicester after a year or two, and not Man City or PSG. I see it as a symbiotic relationship rather than one taking advantage of the other. If that balance would be disturbed, it would not be in the best interest of King Power or Leicester.

The better Leuven do, the more chance Leicester have of gaining something from the deal. Simple as that. Everyone wins. 

 

[HighPeakFox]

14 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

Are people from Wallonia called Wallies?

There's an ostrich joke to be made at this point, given you live in Austria...  

[Betelgeuze]

3 hours ago, shen said:

There have historically been cliques reported in the English national teams, based on their club allegiances, which often leads to speculation of whether the English team ever performs to it's potential (notably the team of the early 00's with Beckham, Gerrard, Owen, Lampard etc).

 

I can imagine the Belgian NT has faced similar issues of trying to integrate the French and Flemish speaking groups throughout the years.

If the split was made, you'd imagine more cohesion within the squad, which could lead to better or similar performances to what we're seeing now.
This generation of Belgian players is absolutely unique from a talent perspective - probably only the team from the early-mid 80s comes close - so I can see why you'd want to keep things as they are from a football perspective. However, once this generation passes, it might be back to another decade or two in the periphery of world football...

That is indeed my fear.

 

Once Hazard, De Bruyne, Lukaku, ... end their career, we won't be at the top of the world anymore. Even though some of our younger players have a lot of potential, they will not be as good as this generation. Lets hope we won't fall back to the time when we were 72th on the FIFA ranking and lost against teams like Finland, Estonia, Armenia, ...

 

England doesn't have that problem because your 'pool to fish' is much bigger than ours. In my humble opinion, in the last decade the only thing England really lacks, is a top class goalkeeper.

[shen]

1 hour ago, Betelgeuze said:

That is indeed my fear.

 

Once Hazard, De Bruyne, Lukaku, ... end their career, we won't be at the top of the world anymore. Even though some of our younger players have a lot of potential, they will not be as good as this generation. Lets hope we won't fall back to the time when we were 72th on the FIFA ranking and lost against teams like Finland, Estonia, Armenia, ...

 

England doesn't have that problem because your 'pool to fish' is much bigger than ours. In my humble opinion, in the last decade the only thing England really lacks, is a top class goalkeeper.

I don't genuinely think Belgium will become that poor again. There seems to be a steady stream of talent coming through, albeit maybe not as abundant as the current crop. 

 

I don't agree with your assessment of the England team however. They have lacked far more than just a top class goalkeeper. I don't think you can say they've had a top class midfielder since Gerrard and their tournament results suggest that a lot overestimate their team. There has to be some bias due to the world-wide exposure of the Premier League. For years and years the average Joe in Denmark as well as the media, had been bigging up England prior to tournaments, but these days it's become a meme to the point people will genuinely be surprised to see England win anything. 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Betelgeuze said:

That is indeed my fear.

 

Once Hazard, De Bruyne, Lukaku, ... end their career, we won't be at the top of the world anymore. Even though some of our younger players have a lot of potential, they will not be as good as this generation. Lets hope we won't fall back to the time when we were 72th on the FIFA ranking and lost against teams like Finland, Estonia, Armenia, ...

 

England doesn't have that problem because your 'pool to fish' is much bigger than ours. In my humble opinion, in the last decade the only thing England really lacks, is a top class goalkeeper.

What do they put the stream of talent down to? There must have been changes at grass roots level some time ago to see such a large number of decent talents appear?

[shen]

8 minutes ago, Babylon said:

What do they put the stream of talent down to? There must have been changes at grass roots level some time ago to see such a large number of decent talents appear?

There are a couple of interesting pieces here: 

https://footballwhispers.com/blog/the-rise-of-belgium-national-football-team/ 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12098/11387201/belgium-are-much-more-than-a-golden-generation-and-it-is-not-luck

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2047716-hazards-generation-how-belgium-became-a-team-to-be-reckoned-with

 

To sum it up crudely and answer your question, 1) the Euro 2000 fiasco prompted changes to the grassroots setup and manifested itself in a clear development plant and 2) a bit of luck.

 

[Betelgeuze]

29 minutes ago, shen said:

There are a couple of interesting pieces here: 

https://footballwhispers.com/blog/the-rise-of-belgium-national-football-team/ 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12098/11387201/belgium-are-much-more-than-a-golden-generation-and-it-is-not-luck

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2047716-hazards-generation-how-belgium-became-a-team-to-be-reckoned-with

 

To sum it up crudely and answer your question, 1) the Euro 2000 fiasco prompted changes to the grassroots setup and manifested itself in a clear development plant and 2) a bit of luck.

 

Another reason is that quite a few players got their development in the youth system outside of Belgium, which were at that time far better: Hazard (Lille) Vermaelen, Alderweireld and Vertonghen (Ajax), ...

[Betelgeuze]

55 minutes ago, shen said:

I don't genuinely think Belgium will become that poor again. There seems to be a steady stream of talent coming through, albeit maybe not as abundant as the current crop. 

 

I don't agree with your assessment of the England team however. They have lacked far more than just a top class goalkeeper. I don't think you can say they've had a top class midfielder since Gerrard and their tournament results suggest that a lot overestimate their team. There has to be some bias due to the world-wide exposure of the Premier League. For years and years the average Joe in Denmark as well as the media, had been bigging up England prior to tournaments, but these days it's become a meme to the point people will genuinely be surprised to see England win anything. 

Of course not only the goalkeeper is the issue, but a goalie that wins you matches and points (like Courtois) can be the difference between good and world class.

 

Since Seaman I haven't seen an English goalie that could compete with the best.

[moore_94]

Been some awards given out for the Belgian league, here is how Leuven did:

 

Golden Shoe (Best player) https://twitter.com/OHLeuven/status/1349733468717023234

 

Winner Lior Refaelov - Mercier 9th, Henry 18th, Sowah 21st, Hubert 31st

 

Coach of the year https://twitter.com/OHLeuven/status/1349733615702196224

 

Winner Philippe Clement - Brys 4th 

 

Keeper of the year https://twitter.com/OHLeuven/status/1349733798074695680

 

Winner Simon Mignolet - Romo 9th

 

Young player of the year https://twitter.com/OHLeuven/status/1349733912872845314

 

Winner Charles De Ketelaere - Sowah 8th

Edited 14 January 2021 by moore_94

[Lizhang]

51 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Been some awards given out for the Belgian league, here is how Leuven did:

 

Golden Shoe (Best player) https://twitter.com/OHLeuven/status/1349733468717023234

 

Winner Lior Refaelov - Mercier 9th, Henry 18th, Sowah 21st, Hubert 31st

 

Coach of the year https://twitter.com/OHLeuven/status/1349733615702196224

 

Winner Philippe Clement - Brys 4th 

 

Keeper of the year https://twitter.com/OHLeuven/status/1349733798074695680

 

Winner Simon Mignolet - Romo 9th

 

Young player of the year https://twitter.com/OHLeuven/status/1349733912872845314

 

Winner Charles De Ketelaere - Sowah 8th

It's a joke, a popularity contest, nothing more. The newspaper behind the awards has strong ties to certain player agents. And since OHL isn't playing nice with their mob connections, this is what you can expect.

 

11 hours ago, Betelgeuze said:

For example, the media in Flanders almost never talks about 'Belgium' but is always about 'Flanders'. 

It's a cultural thing. Pop media will hardly ever talk about Belgium, because important / well known people here, are not known in Wallonia and vice versa. Artists, singers, actors, etc. Politically since a few decades ago, Brussels, Flanders and Wallonia can decide a large part of which course they will follow, autonomously. On top of that, there is the ever present language barrier. While notion of French is slipping in Flanders, notion of Dutch is still nearly non-existent in Wallonia.

4 hours ago, Betelgeuze said:

Another reason is that quite a few players got their development in the youth system outside of Belgium, which were at that time far better: Hazard (Lille) Vermaelen, Alderweireld and Vertonghen (Ajax), ...

Eh, no they weren't. Fellaini, Witsel, Dembélé, etc are all older than Hazard and were all molded in Belgium. Hazard was molded at Tubize (Belgium) until the age of 14 and only played at Lille from 2005-2007. Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembélé, Vermaelen... they all came out of the Beerschot youth academy and went to the Netherlands after turning 15 - 18. Please do some fact checking. Not to mention De Bruyne, Courtois, Mertens, are the same age or older than Hazard, all molded in Belgium. Lukaku is one or two years younger, came through Lierse before moving to Anderlecht.

Edited 14 January 2021 by Lizhang

[Betelgeuze]

The players I named were at certain age in the youth system outside Belgium. Period. There is no lie in that, so don't talk to me about getting my facts straight.

 

Or are you gonna say that the Ajax youth development had nothing to do with the qualities of Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Vermaelen in their career? 

Edited 15 January 2021 by Betelgeuze

[KlaaZ]

35 minutes ago, Betelgeuze said:

The players I named were at certain age in the youth system outside Belgium. Period. There is no lie in that, so don't talk to me about getting my facts straight.

 

Or are you gonna say that the Ajax youth development had nothing to do with the qualities of Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Vermaelen in their career? 

Sure it has, but he has a fair point in saying that most of their development happened in Belgium and that the foreign clubs in this case merely 1) finished the product and 2) gave them the chance to show themselves in the first team. 

[shen]

20 hours ago, Lizhang said:

It's a cultural thing. Pop media will hardly ever talk about Belgium, because important / well known people here, are not known in Wallonia and vice versa. Artists, singers, actors, etc. Politically since a few decades ago, Brussels, Flanders and Wallonia can decide a large part of which course they will follow, autonomously. On top of that, there is the ever present language barrier. While notion of French is slipping in Flanders, notion of Dutch is still nearly non-existent in Wallonia.

This always bugged me. Growing up in bilingual Brussels (For the uninitiated, Brussels has a primariliy French-speaking population, but geographically is an enclave in Flanders) I knew many folks, especially French-speaking Belgians, who were unable and more importantly unwilling to learn Dutch. I realise the two languages are nothing alike being predominantly latin- and germanic-based respectively - but if I was living in a bilingual country (trilingual if you acknowledge the German enclave around Eupen), I'd make the conscious effort of learning the other language. 
 

I never bothered to understand Belgian politics - it never took more than a minute before the mind boggled at the complexity of it all.

[sacreblueits442]

7 minutes ago, shen said:

This always bugged me. Growing up in bilingual Brussels (For the uninitiated, Brussels has a primariliy French-speaking population, but geographically is an enclave in Flanders) I knew many folks, especially French-speaking Belgians, who were unable and more importantly unwilling to learn Dutch. I realise the two languages are nothing alike being predominantly latin- and germanic-based respectively - but if I was living in a bilingual country (trilingual if you acknowledge the German enclave around Eupen), I'd make the conscious effort of learning the other language. 
 

I never bothered to understand Belgian politics - it never took more than a minute before the mind boggled at the complexity of it all.

...yeah.....you take a look at the setup of the leagues regarding promotion and relegation in Belgium..I think Einstein may have had a hand in it!!!

[KingsX]

14 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...yeah.....you take a look at the setup of the leagues regarding promotion and relegation in Belgium..I think Einstein may have had a hand in it!!!

 

Actually they tried to explain it to him once.