Things you can't get your head around...

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Growing up with Kosovar Albanian parents I was taught to never doubt Islam. You are essentially taught that exploring doubt is bad. In Islam once you leave or doubt Allah that's it there's no way back so people tend to suppress any doubt they have because there is more to gain by believing in a religion that in their mind is true then to doubt it and let it be wrong. The moment I stopped being scared of doubting Islam the illusion shattered. Since you can't think about doubting the existence of Allah you avoid thinking about it

How old were you when you stopped believing, if you don't mind me asking? Was there anything in particular that prompted it?

[Fightforever]

14 minutes ago, Guest said:

How old were you when you stopped believing, if you don't mind me asking? Was there anything in particular that prompted it?

I was born here but my parents are from Kosovo around 16 years old I had a conversation with an English atheist friend at school who explained to me how if I religion tells you essentially not to think about doubting religion then it probably isn't very good at explaining things. Kinda snowballed from there.

Edited 9 September 2020 by Fightforever

[deejdeej]

I don't understand how multi-billionaires can feel comfortable sitting on a fortune that they will mostly never touch when there's people without a pot to p**s in.

 

What I do get is that they've exploited markets superbly to earn what they have and there's no rule to say they have to give up any of their money and many do give to charities.

 

But you've got to be very secure with your morals not to feel an ounce of guilt when you see so much famine in the world.

[the fox]

36 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Growing up with Kosovar Albanian parents I was taught to never doubt Islam. You are essentially taught that exploring doubt is bad. In Islam once you leave or doubt Allah that's it there's no way back so people tend to suppress any doubt they have because there is more to gain by believing in a religion that in their mind is true then to doubt it and let it be wrong.

if you don't mind me asking, who told you that? there are answers to the questions/doubts and there is a way back. as long as a person is still alive, he can be forgiven

 

 i myself, had questions, many of them and i sought to understand them through the correct sources and i'm more than happy with the results. 

 

again, if you don't mind me asking, what are the doubts you had?

Edited 9 September 2020 by the fox

[the fox]

i can't get my head around how interest dealing and usury is so excepted in some societies

[deejdeej]

Also, racism. How can your brain be wired to hate somebody because they have a different skin colour to yourself?!

Religious hatred is slightly more understandable I guess (not that it's acceptable).

Edited 9 September 2020 by deejdeej

[Innovindil]

7 minutes ago, deejdeej said:

Also, racism. How can your brain be wired to hate somebody because they have a different skin colour to yourself?!

Religious hatred is slightly more understandable I guess (not that it's acceptable).

The brain isn't wired that way, it's taught to hate. 

[Fightforever]

21 minutes ago, the fox said:

if you don't mind me asking, who told you that? there are answers to the questions/doubts and there is a way back. as long as a person is still alive, he can be forgiven

 

 i myself, had questions, many of them and i sought to understand them through the correct sources and i'm more than happy with the results. 

 

again, if you don't mind me asking, what are the doubts you had?

Parents. as to doubts I am not going to begin because then I would be here all day. If I had to put my finger on it Its a bit like believing in santa Its just something grow out of if your smart enough/want to. In fact you just touched on one of the discrepancies.

Edited 9 September 2020 by Fightforever

[fazzyfox]

Why did Bungle wear pyjamas to sleep in, shorts in the summer but be otherwise naked all day?

[the fox]

1 minute ago, Fightforever said:

Parents. as to doubts I am not going to begin because then I would be here all day

well i think they were wrong. if a person has doubts, he can ask. and there is always a way back, always. 

 

i'm here whenever you feel like asking questions. i think you owe it to yourself to ask those questions instead of suppressing them. if you are open to doubts, you can be open to answers.

[Izzy]

13 minutes ago, deejdeej said:

Also, racism. How can your brain be wired to hate somebody because they have a different skin colour to yourself?!

Religious hatred is slightly more understandable I guess (not that it's acceptable).

I would suggest hatred of any kind is linked to the brains natural threat response. Humans crave certainty and control and feel safe in their own ‘tribe’ so anyone ‘different’ to us can appear as a threat (even perceived, not real)

You could also ask why some football fans ‘hate’ supporters of other teams?
We haven’t really evolved that much as a species in this regard. We’re still tribal deep down and it’s only though education and understanding that we accept and feel safe with different tribes.

[Fightforever]

3 minutes ago, the fox said:

well i think they were wrong. if a person has doubts, he can ask. and there is always a way back, always. 

 

i'm here whenever you feel like asking questions. i think you owe it to yourself to ask those questions instead of suppressing them. if you are open to doubts, you can be open to answers.

Its been almost a decade since I made my mind up on this topic. I don't think there is God is pretty much where I stand on this issue. Issues with Islam in particular I have but I would rather not get into them because I don't want to be seen as Islamophobic. But honestly those are minor problems I just don't think God is real.

Edited 9 September 2020 by Fightforever

[Jon the Hat]

22 minutes ago, deejdeej said:

I don't understand how multi-billionaires can feel comfortable sitting on a fortune that they will mostly never touch when there's people without a pot to p**s in.

 

What I do get is that they've exploited markets superbly to earn what they have and there's no rule to say they have to give up any of their money and many do give to charities.

 

But you've got to be very secure with your morals not to feel an ounce of guilt when you see so much famine in the world.

They aren't sitting on a fortune though are they?  They own a company that employs a **** load of people, pay a fortune in tax overall, and keep loads of other companies going also providing employment and tax.  If they sold those companies and did nothign with their money then you might have a point.  Those who have sold up generally do something else, like Bill Gates for example.

[the fox]

Imagine someone thinking they are better than others because of his race or bloodline. i mean, few things are more hateful than that. it implies that said racist person doesn't even think that they are both human beings.

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, Benguin said:

If you do not believe in an ultimate standard of truth, logic and morality then how do you justify those things having an ultimate standard? If they don’t have any ultimate standard that by what basis can you ground them in objectivity? Are you saying truth is subjective? 

 

But it is subjective, cultural and as such - a construct.  

 

As an Enlightenment philosopher, Immanuel Kant sought to find moral truth in rationality instead of divine authority. He believed that unlike religion, culture, or community, we couldn't 'opt out' of rationality. Kant held that the moral law is a truth of reason, and thereby all rational creatures are subject to and bound by same universal moral law. Utilitarianism opposes this. Rather than being guided by our maxims, or intent, utilitarians believe that our actions should be motivated by what produces the greatest amount of happiness an greater good. This ultimately comes down to the dichotomy between teleological and deontological ethics. 

[Kopfkino]

7 hours ago, Izzy said:

I can't get my head around the net worth of people like Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg.

 

I can sort of imagine £1 million in cash (100 piles of £10,000) but I can't imagine having over £100 billion 

 

I mean £1billion is a thousand million but Bezos has nearly £200 billion and I can't get my head around that.

 

How much do you think they have sat in their current account? Do you think they panic when it gets down to £3.41

[SpacedX]

16 minutes ago, fazzyfox said:

Why did Bungle wear pyjamas to sleep in, shorts in the summer but be otherwise naked all day?

And wasn't Zippy himself a pyjama case? 

 

RIP Jeffrey Hayes. 

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, the fox said:

Imagine someone thinking they are better than others because of his race or bloodline. i mean, few things are more hateful than that. it implies that said racist person doesn't even think that they are both human beings.

It's back to the brain again and our human need for status. If we feel 'better' than someone else we get a hit of dopamine (natures reward chemical) Likewise if we see someone with 'less' status than us, we also get a hit of dopamine and it can become quite addictive.

 

Race and bloodline is taking it to the extreme but every minute of every day we're subconsciously bench-marking ourselves and our status against other humans. Especially in the work place.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

It's back to the brain again and our human need for status. If we feel 'better' than someone else we get a hit of dopamine (natures reward chemical) Likewise if we see someone with 'less' status than us, we also get a hit of dopamine and it can become quite addictive.

 

Race and bloodline is taking it to the extreme but every minute of every day we're subconsciously bench-marking ourselves and our status against other humans. Especially in the work place.

This is possibly the wrong place for this discussion but I'm sure there is evidence somewhere proving humans can and do get a similar dopamine hit from collaboration with other humans rather than competition against them.

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

This is possibly the wrong place for this discussion but I'm sure there is evidence somewhere proving humans can and do get a similar dopamine hit from collaboration with other humans rather than competition against them.

My understanding is we get a slightly different chemical release from collaboration with other humans.

 

Less of a Dopamine 'reward' hit but more of a Serotonin/Oxycontin release based on the feeling of building trust and close relationships.

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, Izzy said:

My understanding is we get a slightly different chemical release from collaboration with other humans.

 

Less of a Dopamine 'reward' hit but more of a Serotonin/Oxycontin release based on the feeling of building trust and close relationships.

That's fair enough.

 

I'd expand on this and say that seeing we have at least some understanding of how such chemical balances exist and work, they are and perhaps should be manageable. (Perhaps that's too "Salarian" of me though, for those who have played Mass Effect.)

[jonthefox]

40 minutes ago, fazzyfox said:

Why did Bungle wear pyjamas to sleep in, shorts in the summer but be otherwise naked all day?

We have a winner 

[the fox]

5 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Its been almost a decade since I made my mind up on this topic. I don't think there is God is pretty much where I stand on this issue. Issues with Islam in particular I have but I would rather not get into them because I don't want to be seen as Islamophobic. But honestly those are minor problems I just don't think God is real.

I said ask me. i didn't say that certain subjects are off limit. there are a lot of misconceptions about Islam. go see the pages 100-101-102 of "also in the news" thread and you might find some answers that will ease you to the discussion.

 

how about we start from "does a Creator exist" and go from there.

 

i will state my argument and you can state yours. i will argue for the existence of a creator.

 

there was a theory in the 1900's, it was called the "static state" theory. it said that the universe is eternal, it was a consensus belief that goes against the concept of the God of the Abrahamic religions and the concept of Creation. anyways, that theory is gone now and was replaces by the "big bang" theory and some others because scientists found that it goes against what the reality is. anyways, if the universe is caused, than what caused that cause? and so on. we will go back for infinity, and if the past in infinite, than there is no THIS (the universe and people and everything) because there is no start. so what does it take to kick all of this off? an eternal, uncaused cause. the uncaused cause has to be, obviously, uncaused. and it has to be way more powerful that any law of nature or it will be effected by it. now the questions is, "there is a Creator entity, but is it conscious?". there are 2 possibilities. the Creator is conscious or is unconscious. and i say conscious. and my reason for saying that is, if the Creator was unconscious (automatic), the Universe would be eternal because the Creator isn't conscious of its actions and because it is eternal, it will make everything that it creates eternal. the entity can't decide when to create if it was unconscious.

[Charl91]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Another thing - game-tree complexity.

 

For instance, the number of possible games of chess lasting 40 moves each is greater than the number of individual baryonic particles (that is to say, protons and neutrons combined) in the universe. And that's only one part of the game tree, and chess isn't even the most complex game.

 

It's amazing how such a simple human invention for the purpose of recreation and competition can contain so much complexity.

On a similar note, the combination of a card shuffle.

 

The fact that when you shuffle a deck of playing cards, the order almost certain to be unique, and the odds are near certain that no one in the past, or the future, will ever manage to shuffle that combination of cards.

 

Big numbers in general are just quite mind blowing.

 

 

Also, this

 

https://scaleofuniverse.com/

[the fox]

26 minutes ago, Izzy said:

It's back to the brain again and our human need for status. If we feel 'better' than someone else we get a hit of dopamine (natures reward chemical) Likewise if we see someone with 'less' status than us, we also get a hit of dopamine and it can become quite addictive.

 

Race and bloodline is taking it to the extreme but every minute of every day we're subconsciously bench-marking ourselves and our status against other humans. Especially in the work place.

I have to disagree with you here, Izzy. whilst humans have instincts, what they feel is also effected by their character and nature. what a person consider as a source for dopamine, others see as disgusting and vice-versa. human nature is human nature, and it comes down to what people think/feel is moral. some people get a hit of dopamine from killing innocent people, it doesn't mean that humans are hardwired to have that chemical reaction.

 

i think there is a deference between a honest effort and one-upmenship. it shouldn't be a "dog eat dog" world because we as humans, are not dogs. taking it as motivation is one thing, but comparing a person's low-lights to others highlights will only produce a toxic, hateful working environment. but hey, that's maybe why a lot of CEOs and politicians are sociopaths who feed the machine of hate and jealousy and encourage "by any means necessary" culture.