Underacheiving Football Clubs

[bovril]

Just now, Sol thewall Bamba said:

"A club of their size" what a completely unremarkable football club that had a whirlwind 5 year spell under a generational manager, who since then have returned to their second tier, unremarkable setting? Absolute myth of a football club. 

I don't disagree that they have an inflated sense of self-importance, but they are a big club by most standards and to have only once looked like coming close to returning to the PL in 22 years is pretty remarkable. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

I don't disagree that they have an inflated sense of self-importance, but they are a big club by most standards and to have only once looked like coming close to returning to the PL in 22 years is pretty remarkable. 

They overachieved for 5 years, not underachieved for the subsequent 40 (FORTY).

[bovril]

Just now, Sol thewall Bamba said:

They overachieved for 5 years, not underachieved for the subsequent 40 (FORTY).

Both can be true. Their aim is to get back to the Premier League. Leaving aside vague notions of what makes a big club, to have not achieved that aim is undoubtedly "underachieving". 

[Corky]

Newcastle. Forget all this stuff about deluded fans, they've not won a domestic trophy for 65 years. How many of those were in the top flight?

 

Even in the last 30 years with the likes of Keegan and Robson they threatened but never made it.

[Nalis]

For population and land mass, Kent arent represented much (Gillingham only I think).

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

Both can be true. Their aim is to get back to the Premier League. Leaving aside vague notions of what makes a big club, to have not achieved that aim is undoubtedly "underachieving". 

Yeah I would agree with that tbf. They've been out for what, 21/22 seasons now, 3 teams get promoted a season so even just by averages they should have got close by now. Imagine your best season in that long ended in DJ Campbell burying you at your own ground  

[Nalis]

Forest size wise are in that bracket of about 15-20 clubs such as West Brom, Sheff Wed and Utd, Swansea, Birmingham, Derby, Stoke, Fulham, Portsmouth, Charlton, etc. So I think its fair to say them and Sheff Wed have underachieved in that regard.

[AjcW]

I know it's probably been mentioned, but my best mate is a Bristol City fan, and I find it absolutely insane that a city that large has never had a Premier League (92 onwards...) side, especially given there's two clubs.

 

I think someone mentioned it earlier about the south west in general, but it seems like Southampton seem to absolutely clean up on any academy talent from that region.

 

Bristol City are making advances, stadium and training ground have had massive upgrades, however under the 'Bristol Sport' umbrella it's the Rugby that is top of the agenda currently, and they share both the ground and new training ground with them.

They've ALMOST got there on many occasions in the last few years, but they seem to be regressing now and you wonder if they've missed the boat for another few seasons at least.

[bovril]

Just now, Nalis said:

Forest size wise are in that bracket of about 15-20 clubs such as West Brom, Sheff Wed and Utd, Swansea, Birmingham, Derby, Stoke, Fulham, Portsmouth, Charlton, etc. So I think its fair to say them and Sheff Wed have underachieved in that regard.

Wouldn't agree about Fulham. Have been punching above their weight for a while. Nice club but pretty insignificant. 

 

The Sheffield teams, Derby and Forest really haven't reached their potential in the PL era. Neither Ipswich, save for that one season. The success seems to be concentrated in London and the North West and I'd say we're the only provincial club that has come close to establishing ourselves in the elite. 

[Brizzle Fox]

2 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

Oh really? Still a very poor showing given the size of the city. 

Always been a rugby area tbh. Rovers always skint and though City owned by a billionaire he also owns the Bristol Bears and is more interested in smashing the wage cap with them and trying to win something. Much pricier to try and invest to grow a football team into a Premier League club rather than build a rugby club to success. 

[Zear0]

Arsenal

[David Guiza]

Everton are certainly also one in recent decades.

 

I'm not old enough to have lived through their glory years, but they are/were a huge club. Granted some were a ridiculously long time ago, but nine time top flight winners and five time FA Cup winners is a more than decent achievement. Could have potentially have won more in Europe were it not for the ban too.

 

[Fox in the North]

Just now, David Guiza said:

Everton are certainly also one in recent decades.

 

I'm not old enough to have lived through their glory years, but they are/were a huge club. Granted some were a ridiculously long time ago, but nine time top flight winners and five time FA Cup winners is a more than decent achievement. Could have potentially have won more in Europe were it not for the ban too.

 

I was thinking Everton too, considering how long they’ve been in the top flight, in recent history they’ve only won the 94-95 FA Cup. Quite a recent underachiever in terms of their stature.

[Dan]

Call me mad, but Loughborough Dynamo? I feel like Loughborough could've been in the 92 and they're in the 8th tier. I feel like they could be bigger.

[Voll Blau]

1 minute ago, Dan LCFC said:

Call me mad, but Loughborough Dynamo? I feel like Loughborough could've been in the 92 and they're in the 8th tier. I feel like they could be bigger.

Leicestershire as a county underachieves in terms of having a second club, if you like, in higher tiers at present.

[Dan]

10 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Leicestershire as a county underachieves in terms of having a second club, if you like, in higher tiers at present.

I've always thought that. I don't really know the ins and outs of why but in my memory there's not been another football league club in Leicestershire, since I've followed anyway.

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, Nalis said:

For population and land mass, Kent arent represented much (Gillingham only I think).

 

True.....and I had to look up some data on counties by population: https://www.statista.com/statistics/971694/county-population-england/

 

Kent (Gillingham FC) has a bigger population than....

- Hampshire (Southampton, Pompey)

- Lancashire (Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley, Fleetwood, Preston)

- Merseyside (Liverpool, Everton, Tranmere)

- South Yorks (Sheff Utd, Sheff W, Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster)

 

Kent has almost twice the population of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire or Tyne & Wear

 

Part of the explanation will be social class & urbanisation - higher proportion of middle-class with little football-going tradition; no medium/large city.

 

I reckon it's also partly the dominance of London clubs over players and fans. This applies to other Home Counties with fairly large populations, like Essex & Surrey.

A fair few Kent residents commute to follow the nearest London clubs like Charlton & Millwall - or the big boys. Similarly, a lot from Essex go to West Ham; from Surrey to Palace etc.

 

Almost 10m people live in the Home Counties, yet which clubs have made the top tier in recent decades? Brighton, Watford, Reading... not many

[Voll Blau]

40 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

I've always thought that. I don't really know the ins and outs of why but in my memory there's not been another football league club in Leicestershire, since I've followed anyway.

It's just the Victorian Loughborough FC who managed it. They folded in 1900.

Edited 10 February 2021 by Voll Blau

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

Call me mad, but Loughborough Dynamo? I feel like Loughborough could've been in the 92 and they're in the 8th tier. I feel like they could be bigger.

As I said lots of clubs like that in the pyramid but what makes Loughborough unique is that they have always had their own ground (in recent years). A lot of bigger town non league clubs struggle when they sell or lose their ground and then seemingly spend ages trying to get back to the town (Newark, Worcester, Aylesbury, Hinckley). 
 

There’s scope for a non league club in Leicestershire to at least try and be something different that you find up and down the country rather than plodding. 

[Voll Blau]

6 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

As I said lots of clubs like that in the pyramid but what makes Loughborough unique is that they have always had their own ground (in recent years). A lot of bigger town non league clubs struggle when they sell or lose their ground and then seemingly spend ages trying to get back to the town (Newark, Worcester, Aylesbury, Hinckley). 
 

There’s scope for a non league club in Leicestershire to at least try and be something different that you find up and down the country rather than plodding. 

On a similar point, it's good to see Gloucester looking good for promotion to the National League at the moment after what they've been through.

[KingsX]

there is a common thread underlying so many of these responses.

 

       

[BenTheFox]

Don't quite understand the claims for West Ham. They're currently in the top six of the Premier league and there are three bigger clubs in the same with many other well supported clubs. 

[spacemunky]

7 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Problem with Birmingham is that you probably have little scope or attract fans within the city. The population pool of football fans isn’t that large. Villa fans seem to always be from the surroundings like Lichfield, Sutton Coldfield, Bromsgrove etc. Bloos in that sense feel like the city club a bit more. A lot of people living in Birmingham is similar to London in the sense they moved here for work. 
 

Bristol is split by clubs and rugby. Throw in that it’s surrounding areas are well off and prefer Bath, Gloucester or Bristol in the Union. 
 

Bradford’s history is lousy unlike their RL counterparts but both clubs are utterly fcuked at the mo. They are in that Leeds bubble aswell. No reason they couldn’t be at the same level as Barnsley. 
 

Generally think football clubs settle about right once in the professional ranks. There are however numerous larger towns which baffle why they don’t have decent non league clubs - albeit a lot of stems where they’ve lost their original ground and remained marooned outside of their town 

This is why I enjoy this forum.

 

These are the things I learn from here, that I wouldn't have known/thought of  otherwise.

 

Birmingham was the 1st thing that popped into my head.

 

 

[LeedsFox95]

9 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

York’s too posh - with huge ties to Leeds. They only took 9k to the playoff final they were promoted at it in 2012/13. 

York is honestly nowhere near as posh as people think - especially compared to Harrogate, Cambridge and Oxford - all of which currently have EFL clubs. Likewise with Wimbledon, and arguably Brighton (though nowadays it’s less posh and more hipster).

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

Cardiff - capital of Wales, good fan base (even while Rugby takes precedent), good facilities but never really made any big moves.