The Ashes 21/22

[The People's Hero]

3 minutes ago, SexyGammonFox said:

Hardly surprising though, the management have spent most of the year trying to undermine any confidence he may have had left.

We are absolute toss.

 

Fortunately the ECB is sorting this out by slowly eroding the county game where young English players might get a game in favour of 'rent-a-star' for the pointless (fewer) franchises in the hundred.

 

Hoorary!

[RowlattsFox]

Don't know if Stokes is stiff from his bowling or he's injured. Doesn't look comfortable at all but at least he's solid. Really want him to go after Lyon but it's a huge risk. 

 

Burns and Hameed will be praying they get to the follow on score so it rules out them batting in the dark tonight. 

 

I always forget how annoying Matt Smith is as a host until I see him again. 

[The People's Hero]

2 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

Don't know if Stokes is stiff from his bowling or he's injured. Doesn't look comfortable at all but at least he's solid. Really want him to go after Lyon but it's a huge risk. 

 

Burns and Hameed will be praying they get to the follow on score so it rules out them batting in the dark tonight. 

 

I always forget how annoying Matt Smith is as a host until I see him again. 

Stokes has basically played no cricket for ages and when he gets back the squad is effectively like 'thank god you're back; we're downing tools for a bit - go out and get 150 runs and 10 wickets will you?'

 

Root and Stokes must look around themselves sometimes and wonder what on earth is going on.

 

I'm not even going to start on the bowling but the fact the Aussies know exactly how to get all of our top 6 out EVERY time, with the exception of Root (I can't really account for Malan's success, but will be watching carefully) is an absolute joke. I know you shouldn't change technique during a test, but just about anyone could have told you how Burns and Hameed would be likely to get on since the Australians have them worked out.

[Tommy Fresh]

17 minutes ago, StanSP said:

How come England didn’t pick a spinner for this test? 

The only two they seem confident in ever selecting are Leach and Bess, despite there being numerous spinners at County level who probably deserve a go. If Callum Parkinson didn't play for Leicestershire he'd be getting mentioned.

Edited 18 December 2021 by Tommy Fresh

[Voll Blau]

36 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Unless Buttler pulls out some big numbers during the remainder of the series he's surely out of the test side after this 

You know what'll happen. We'll have one innings where he finally gets to come in at 300+ for 5, make a swashbuckling 80-odd, everyone will rave about how "that's something only he can give us" and he'll get the benefit of the doubt again.

[Tommy Fresh]

1 minute ago, The People's Hero said:

Stokes has basically played no cricket for ages and when he gets back the squad is effectively like 'thank god you're back; we're downing tools for a bit - go out and get 150 runs and 10 wickets will you?'

 

Root and Stokes must look around themselves sometimes and wonder what on earth is going on.

 

I'm not even going to start on the bowling but the fact the Aussies know exactly how to get all of our top 6 out EVERY time, with the exception of Root (I can't really account for Malan's success, but will be watching carefully) is an absolute joke. I know you shouldn't change technique during a test, but just about anyone could have told you how Burns and Hameed would be likely to get on since the Australians have them worked out.

Mentioned it on a previous page Sam Robson really should have been on the Lions tour at least

[dmayne7]

5 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

We are absolute toss.

 

Fortunately the ECB is sorting this out by slowly eroding the county game where young English players might get a game in favour of 'rent-a-star' for the pointless (fewer) franchises in the hundred.

 

Hoorary!

Given the amount of money we get, how can we only have about 3 test quality batsmen? The ECB need a massive re think.

 

Whilst I agree with you, how is it that the other 2 nations who get/got all the money, manage to have brilliant franchise cricket and yet still produce tons of test quality players?! Especially when the English First Class system has always been seen as the pinnacle.

 

Been like this for 10 years now and you still have hope that it will get better. How stupid.

 

[coolhandfox]

Just now, Voll Blau said:

You know what'll happen. We'll have one innings where he finally gets to come in at 300+ for 5, make a swashbuckling 80-odd, everyone will rave about how "that's something only he can give us" and he'll get the benefit of the doubt again.

This rinse and repeat.

 

Would'nt mind so much if he could catch the bloody thing.

 

I sure we could find a very good wicketkeeper who can get the odd 10 or 20 runs. 

 

How much did his drops cost us in this test?

[The People's Hero]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

The only two they seem confident in ever selecting are Leach and Bess, despite their being numerous spinners at County level who probably deserve a go. If Callum Parkinson didn't play for Leicestershire he'd be getting mentioned.

Lets be honest though, if any of those three are test standard for England then you can understand why they don't pick a spinner and Root wearily announces to the selectors 'alright, alright, I'll get all the runs and captain and be the main spinner again; just pick 10 filler guys who will leave me alone and do as they're told'.

 

The issue is mainly as I suggested previously. How many young spinners get a game in England? The English game is unadventurous which encourages a non-specialist spinner just to chuck down fairly flat, low-risk spin, coupled with the fact the ECB is determined to get exciting overseas big-names over to play in their pet vanity project, which no one cares about.

 

Rehan Ahmed is a shining beacon of something young, exciting and a bit different who is already playing well above his age group for England. Naturally the next stage is for someone in the England set up to strongly encourage he move to Nottinghamshire such that he has a shot at senior England selection where they will not select him and waste his career away.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

I know we lack players that can bat but silverwood really doesn't impress me.

[Tommy Fresh]

2 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

You know what'll happen. We'll have one innings where he finally gets to come in at 300+ for 5, make a swashbuckling 80-odd, everyone will rave about how "that's something only he can give us" and he'll get the benefit of the doubt again.

This or he'll get a last chance on the West Indies tour score a load of runs and earn himself another 2 years. Alternatively Foakes will replace him against the West Indies, keep perfectly and average over 50 only to be dropped for Buttler in the summer.

[Tommy Fresh]

6 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Lets be honest though, if any of those three are test standard for England then you can understand why they don't pick a spinner and Root wearily announces to the selectors 'alright, alright, I'll get all the runs and captain and be the main spinner again; just pick 10 filler guys who will leave me alone and do as they're told'.

 

The issue is mainly as I suggested previously. How many young spinners get a game in England? The English game is unadventurous which encourages a non-specialist spinner just to chuck down fairly flat, low-risk spin, coupled with the fact the ECB is determined to get exciting overseas big-names over to play in their pet vanity project, which no one cares about.

 

Rehan Ahmed is a shining beacon of something young, exciting and a bit different who is already playing well above his age group for England. Naturally the next stage is for someone in the England set up to strongly encourage he move to Nottinghamshire such that he has a shot at senior England selection where they will not select him and waste his career away.

Yeah I agree that the standard isn't great but if you're taking Leach and then Bess with the Lions I'd argue there's better choices. The alternative that I've mentioned is give Livingstone a chance in this format, at least you get another fairly capable spin option but don't weaken the bowling attack. Add in the bloke is pretty much one for the big stage and has played a bit in Australia. Averages just under 40 in first class cricket and just over 35 with the ball I believe

Edited 18 December 2021 by Tommy Fresh

[SexyGammonFox]

Pope is the new Hick/Ramps.

[The People's Hero]

2 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

Given the amount of money we get, how can we only have about 3 test quality batsmen? The ECB need a massive re think.

 

Whilst I agree with you, how is it that the other 2 nations who get/got all the money, manage to have brilliant franchise cricket and yet still produce tons of test quality players?! Especially when the English First Class system has always been seen as the pinnacle.

 

Been like this for 10 years now and you still have hope that it will get better. How stupid.

 

Because, unless I'm wrong here (I might be):

 

- The franchises are well supported and liked and have some history to them, whilst I find ours distasteful.

- The franchises are the traditional route in to national cricket, which remains the objective for their players, ie its the ultimate honour, not some shameless cash grab to the detriment of the existing 1st class game in those countries (that is the 1st class game there and their next level down feeds in to it). Australians absolutely love to earn that green baggie! Our young players (big generalisation I know) possibly (I don't know for fact) dream instead of the ££££ to be made from shorter format contracts in global competitions. Nothing altogether wrong with is objectively I suppose, and I think we are probably still not a bad 20 over side; but these players don't play enough of other formats and no longer have playing for England in test matches as the ultimate goal (which as a cricket obsessed boy, I always did)

- Their franchise systems play a variety of cricket formats; not just hundred ball slogathons

- They actively promote domestic talent; whilst we actively tend to look for ways to naturalise foreign players, sign more overseas and put the exciting overseas players in to our sexy shallow new franchise system to get fans there (for free though, no one is buying the tickets)

- There is a clear direction about their domestic game and national selection process. Ours is all over the place. Get 200 runs in a franchise team overseas (regardless of each one) and you're in the conversation; over here you have to be playing for the fashionable, pet counties. 'This guy averages 55 with the bat'... hmm yeah but he plays in division 2, let's pick the guy averaging 31 for Yorkshire/Lancashire/Nottinghamshire/Hampshire/Surrey (I'll have forgotten some). 

- Sabotaging of our own young talent by effectively forcing them to move to counties who will stockpile that talent and stunt career development.

- We seem to be horrifically coached. There is a long list of examples of players getting selected for England and then massively dropping off, particularly with the bat. Very obvious deficiencies just never seem to be worked on, with batsmen dismissed the same way time and time again. Confidence seems to be shot amonst loads of them also. What are our coaches/management doing with them.

- Conversely, whilst Australians know how to get each of our batsmen and have clear and thought out plans where the only question mark is how well they can execute them (whilst they try to get out the 10 at the other end and leave Root stranded), our bowlers our clearly just thrown the ball with no plan in mind; although to give them some credit, someone has obviously just learned the old 'stick your fielders out on the leg side and bowl short routine' and its become our very telegraphed go-to strategy. I can just about deal with us being sh1t, but having zero game plan is a huge question mark against the management and Root. Turning up in Australia with a mantra of 'just keep bowling and bowling and they might make a mistake or declare and hopefully they have less than 600' is not an inspiring approach.

 

I think a lot of that didn't actually answer your question, but it felt good to type it.

 

In short, in the Test arena we are our own worst enemies. If not for Root and Stokes (and in this purple patch, Malan) and when Anderson and Broad retire, we look so so so average!

[The People's Hero]

Whilst we're talking about cricket and I feel pissed off about it, can I just have another moan about that cheating Somerset keeper and the pathetic ECB response.

 

James Vince is a fine player, but to apologise for his keeper there was disgusting. I hope he never plays for England again and I hope his every dismissal next year is similar.

[trabuch]

Innings defeat looking likely now.

[The People's Hero]

2 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Whilst we're talking about cricket and I feel pissed off about it, can I just have another moan about that cheating Somerset keeper and the pathetic ECB response.

 

James Vince is a fine player, but to apologise for his keeper there was disgusting. I hope he never plays for England again and I hope his every dismissal next year is similar.

Might have been Hampshire. Why do I have such disdain for Somerset? What did they do? Was it just 'outplay and comfortably beat us?' if so I've probably been a bit unfair then.

 

Who did the ball tampering? Was that Surrey or was that why I don't like Somerset?
 

What happened in the Somerset game? Didn't we kick start the season of a couple of their batsmen who couldn't buy a run?

[Voll Blau]

21 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

This rinse and repeat.

 

Would'nt mind so much if he could catch the bloody thing.

 

I sure we could find a very good wicketkeeper who can get the odd 10 or 20 runs. 

 

How much did his drops cost us in this test?

The best wicketkeeper in the country by a country mile has already proved he can serve with the bat too at Test level.

 

People act like Foakes is some kind of bunny and the only grounds for that seems to be that he's really good with the gloves too. It's ridiculous.

[The People's Hero]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

The best wicketkeeper in the country by a country mile has already proved he can serve with the bat too at Test level.

 

People act like Foakes is some kind of bunny and the only grounds for that seems to be that he's really good with the gloves too. It's ridiculous.

Also plays for Surrey so its extremely curious.

 

I actually like Pope, to be honest, just something about him with the bat I've always liked. Buttler looks a state out there.

 

I'd definitely be up for giving Foakes a go. He's been consistently excellent at county level.

[Voll Blau]

3 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Also plays for Surrey so its extremely curious.

 

I actually like Pope, to be honest, just something about him with the bat I've always liked. Buttler looks a state out there.

 

I'd definitely be up for giving Foakes a go. He's been consistently excellent at county level.

He's never really let England down either.  Was horrifically unlucky with injury over the summer, but even if he'd got a run I reckon they'd still have gone for Buttler this winter because of this 'X Factor' the selectors are convinced he has.

[The People's Hero]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

He's never really let England down either.  Was horrifically unlucky with injury over the summer, but even if he'd got a run I reckon they'd still have gone for Buttler this winter because of this 'X Factor' the selectors are convinced he has.

You sound like a cricket fan to me and probably someone who watches a lot of England cricket. Think back to a lot of Root's interviews etc and he generally talks glowingly about Buttler.

 

Its partly this obsession with big shots, strike rates, 'personality', game-changers etc etc which people clearly think Buttler is and don't get me wrong, he's had his moments.

 

Foakes goes about his craft with a bit more consistency and is without question the better keeper. His record in the county game with the bat shows he can do it as well and presumably we'd only be putting him in at 6/7 anyway. I do have my doubts whether he'd made much a difference against Australia with the bat but its hard to imagine he wouldn't have kept better than Buttler.

 

That's another point though about Buttler catching the eye. His glove work is often 3/10 but then he will take an acrobatic catch and that's what people remember. 

 

If we are honest, there is more here than the selection blunders/choice of keeper:

 

- We've batted atrociously in general (Root and Malan get a pass; possibly Stokes too although its been chancey)

- We're over reliant on a part injured and not very fit Stokes.

- We haven't bowled to plans at all. I don't think we have plans.

- We've been poorly (unimaginatively captained)

- We've fielded as poorly as I've seen us in ages; so many dropped catches and misfields.

- Our specialist spinner bowled terribly first test and we allowed him to be hit out of the attack and that seems to be that; so predictable selections in future (4 seamers!)

 

[Swarles Barkley]

Another day or waking up to England being woefully pathetic. Sigh

[Super_horns]

Got a feeling of Deja vu.

Didn't we see this pattern last week?

[Tommy Fresh]

34 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Might have been Hampshire. Why do I have such disdain for Somerset? What did they do? Was it just 'outplay and comfortably beat us?' if so I've probably been a bit unfair then.

 

Who did the ball tampering? Was that Surrey or was that why I don't like Somerset?
 

What happened in the Somerset game? Didn't we kick start the season of a couple of their batsmen who couldn't buy a run?

Yeah the stumping was Hampshire

[Finnegan]

Not sure I understand why you'd let England off the hook here? 

 

Batsmen really lacking confidence, new ball, under lights, would you not put them back in and pelt them for a bit? 

 

Is this all just about fatigue and the Australians needing a rest?