The Ashes 21/22

[RowlattsFox]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Not sure I understand why you'd let England off the hook here? 

 

Batsmen really lacking confidence, new ball, under lights, would you not put them back in and pelt them for a bit? 

 

Is this all just about fatigue and the Australians needing a rest? 

Run England bowlers into the ground, get such a big lead to humiliate, bat until the last session tomorrow then probably get it all done tomorrow night. 

 

Bit of practice batting under the lights  in no pressure situation. 

 

But mainly it is to give your bowlers a bit of a rest rather than risk having them bowl 2 full days, however unlikely that is. 

[Voll Blau]

43 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

You sound like a cricket fan to me and probably someone who watches a lot of England cricket. Think back to a lot of Root's interviews etc and he generally talks glowingly about Buttler.

 

Its partly this obsession with big shots, strike rates, 'personality', game-changers etc etc which people clearly think Buttler is and don't get me wrong, he's had his moments.

 

Foakes goes about his craft with a bit more consistency and is without question the better keeper. His record in the county game with the bat shows he can do it as well and presumably we'd only be putting him in at 6/7 anyway. I do have my doubts whether he'd made much a difference against Australia with the bat but its hard to imagine he wouldn't have kept better than Buttler.

 

That's another point though about Buttler catching the eye. His glove work is often 3/10 but then he will take an acrobatic catch and that's what people remember. 

 

If we are honest, there is more here than the selection blunders/choice of keeper:

 

- We've batted atrociously in general (Root and Malan get a pass; possibly Stokes too although its been chancey)

- We're over reliant on a part injured and not very fit Stokes.

- We haven't bowled to plans at all. I don't think we have plans.

- We've been poorly (unimaginatively captained)

- We've fielded as poorly as I've seen us in ages; so many dropped catches and misfields.

- Our specialist spinner bowled terribly first test and we allowed him to be hit out of the attack and that seems to be that; so predictable selections in future (4 seamers!)

 

Oh, completely agree. I just think the persistence with Buttler typifies the lack of logic and general brainlessness you rightly point out when it comes to the Test team.

 

We're so over-reliant on one world-class batter in Root, a once in a generation all-rounder in Stokes, and a bowling attack that seldom fails at home that it's scary.

[RonnieTodger]

it’s unbelievable. I can’t imagine a scenario in which England score 300+
 

Meanwhile Australia make it look easy. Shouldn’t be on the same pitch. What’s sad is that this is hardly an amazing Australia team either. 

[EastAnglianFox]

It's utter humiliation. 

 

They don't even have their Captain or 2 main strike bowlers playing and it's still men v boys. 

[Spiritwalker]

We’re back in it.

[Corky]

2 hours ago, ealingfox said:

Not at a competitive standard on or off the pitch. Embarrassing and this series will go down as an unacceptably bad showing from a supposedly top-level nation.

I don't see it changing any time soon, either. We are woefully short against the top nations home and away right now.

[Super_horns]

1 minute ago, Spiritwalker said:

We’re back in it.

A rare error from the Aussies.

 

I think they want to give the bowlers a rest then have another go at us as the lights come into play tomorrow.

[filbertway]

Im assuming Australia are planning to utterly humiliate us by racking up another 4-500 runs knowing they only need a day to skittle the village team batsmen out?

 

This is spoken as someone that if they were asked to name an England XI would be able to name about 3 players

 

 

I reckon they should call Hoggard up to open and just have him block for days.

[Duquesne Whistle]

Most teams don't follow on these days, why would you with two days of the test left? You don't need that long to bowl out a side where barely any batsmen averages 40.

 

With a lead bordering on 300 already, I imagine Australia intend to bat solidly until lunchtime tomorrow, then have a little T20 fun with the tiring England bowlers in the late afternoon, thus adding humiliation of our bowlers to the time honoured tradition of humiliating our batsmen on Aussie soil. If any of our squad open a laptop in the next couple of weeks, all they'll read is the Aussie press mocking them and their own fans calling them useless. Not the best of preparation for the Boxing day test..

 

Australia were neutered by India in their own conditions, They aren't a particularly good side, they're just a much better side than England. They would have won last time across here, but for a Stokes innings of a lifetime, so the gulf shouldn't be that surprising. England simply don't have good enough batsmen (anywhere) or bowlers (in Aussie conditions) to do the same. Barring a miracle, this test and the series have gone already. If this series concludes in a now familiar scenario, England must start looking at people like Liam Livingstone and gambling that they may have more to offer than the current lot. There's a chance Livingstone could be another Andrew Symonds, but what do England have to lose in giving fresh players a try?

 

Woakes (in away series), Burns and Buttler (in all test cricket) have to be jettisoned in the long term, regardless of what they do in the rest of this series. Others could be dropped, but finding one replacement batsman is difficult enough, so Malan needs to stay for the meanwhile.

The importance in the likes of Archer and Stone is obvious to this England squad, but fast bowling is notoriously brutal on the body and I'm not sure either is cut out for long test careers, more's the pity.

 

 

 

[dmayne7]

7 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

Because, unless I'm wrong here (I might be):

 

- The franchises are well supported and liked and have some history to them, whilst I find ours distasteful.

- The franchises are the traditional route in to national cricket, which remains the objective for their players, ie its the ultimate honour, not some shameless cash grab to the detriment of the existing 1st class game in those countries (that is the 1st class game there and their next level down feeds in to it). Australians absolutely love to earn that green baggie! Our young players (big generalisation I know) possibly (I don't know for fact) dream instead of the ££££ to be made from shorter format contracts in global competitions. Nothing altogether wrong with is objectively I suppose, and I think we are probably still not a bad 20 over side; but these players don't play enough of other formats and no longer have playing for England in test matches as the ultimate goal (which as a cricket obsessed boy, I always did)

- Their franchise systems play a variety of cricket formats; not just hundred ball slogathons

- They actively promote domestic talent; whilst we actively tend to look for ways to naturalise foreign players, sign more overseas and put the exciting overseas players in to our sexy shallow new franchise system to get fans there (for free though, no one is buying the tickets)

- There is a clear direction about their domestic game and national selection process. Ours is all over the place. Get 200 runs in a franchise team overseas (regardless of each one) and you're in the conversation; over here you have to be playing for the fashionable, pet counties. 'This guy averages 55 with the bat'... hmm yeah but he plays in division 2, let's pick the guy averaging 31 for Yorkshire/Lancashire/Nottinghamshire/Hampshire/Surrey (I'll have forgotten some). 

- Sabotaging of our own young talent by effectively forcing them to move to counties who will stockpile that talent and stunt career development.

- We seem to be horrifically coached. There is a long list of examples of players getting selected for England and then massively dropping off, particularly with the bat. Very obvious deficiencies just never seem to be worked on, with batsmen dismissed the same way time and time again. Confidence seems to be shot amonst loads of them also. What are our coaches/management doing with them.

- Conversely, whilst Australians know how to get each of our batsmen and have clear and thought out plans where the only question mark is how well they can execute them (whilst they try to get out the 10 at the other end and leave Root stranded), our bowlers our clearly just thrown the ball with no plan in mind; although to give them some credit, someone has obviously just learned the old 'stick your fielders out on the leg side and bowl short routine' and its become our very telegraphed go-to strategy. I can just about deal with us being sh1t, but having zero game plan is a huge question mark against the management and Root. Turning up in Australia with a mantra of 'just keep bowling and bowling and they might make a mistake or declare and hopefully they have less than 600' is not an inspiring approach.

 

I think a lot of that didn't actually answer your question, but it felt good to type it.

 

In short, in the Test arena we are our own worst enemies. If not for Root and Stokes (and in this purple patch, Malan) and when Anderson and Broad retire, we look so so so average!

Going out on a limb here, but do you think you're a bit annoyed with the cricket .

 

So the franchises are definitely not the same. 6 states compete in the Sheffield shield and 8 in the BBL. In India it's definitely not like for like either. And pretty sure both of those 20/20 comps allow more overseas players than the T20 blast does here (may be wrong). And we invent T20 cricket and rather than adapt that, bring in the shitty hundred as England yet again creates a sport and does a crap job in continuing to innovate.

 

The biggest issue is as you say, the lack of direction. The selection used to be great people people like Broad, Anderson, Trescothick, Stokes etc. arguably before they were ready but knowing they'd make it and now we don't get that. Totally agree with you overlooking the div 2 thing. I get that batting can be distorted by facer 'lesser' bowlers or certainly slower bowlers but there's also a great argument for picking guys in form regardless of the level. 

 

One of the biggest jokes is that James Hildreth never got a cap considering how rubbish our batting has been for a decade.

[surrifox]

Worrying body language . This lot look like they’d rather be in Syria than Australia . Completely undercooked and lacking application - if they cancel the series it would be a relief . This isn’t even a particularly impressive Australian side 

[Super_horns]

5 minutes ago, surrifox said:

Worrying body language . This lot look like they’d rather be in Syria than Australia . Completely undercooked and lacking application - if they cancel the series it would be a relief . This isn’t even a particularly impressive Australian side 

Basically playing their 2nd string bowling attack.

 

And before the Ashes Starc was deemed as a potentially weak link !

Edited 18 December 2021 by Super_horns

[Guest Lako42]

Let's not talk about it being an Aussie 2nd string. 

 

This is all about England and the opposition doesn't come into the issues we've got here. 

 

I think I'm alone in believing that this is actually a very good Australian side, but it isn't important. 

[Izzy]

10 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

Let's not talk about it being an Aussie 2nd string. 

 

This is all about England and the opposition doesn't come into the issues we've got here. 

 

I think I'm alone in believing that this is actually a very good Australian side, but it isn't important. 

I think it’s a decent Aussie side too. Not one of their greats, but still pretty good IMO.

 

Its just a shame we’re not even slightly competitive and can’t give them a game. Same old, same old and I’m sticking with my pre series 5-0 whitewash prediction unfortunately 

 

[Tommy Fresh]

49 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

Let's not talk about it being an Aussie 2nd string. 

 

This is all about England and the opposition doesn't come into the issues we've got here. 

 

I think I'm alone in believing that this is actually a very good Australian side, but it isn't important. 

They are a good side, probably not as much quality throughout as some of their great sides but they don't need to have such a complete team here. They have two top four batsman who average over 60 and decent players backing them up, add in the fact our batting line up is so feeble at the minute their bowling attack doesn't need to be on the same level as Lee, McGrath, Warne etc

Edited 18 December 2021 by Tommy Fresh

[Bert]

There’s a few problems with us. 
 

Our openers aren’t good enough, and too many times 3&4 are coming in virtually facing a new ball.
 

Our wicket keeper isn’t scoring enough runs. When was the last time he put a big score in? You look back to the likes of Alec Stewart, Matt Prior and they were always good for a big score 1 in 3 tests.

 

Our star all rounder has just come back from an injury and a mental health problem, which obviously won’t be the most ideal situation for a 2 month stint on the other side of the world.
 

We don’t have a decent enough spinner to do what the likes of Lyon can do. Our premier bowlers, albeit they’re still world class won’t be able to carry on for much longer and they were both already left out of the first test. They won’t be on the next overseas ashes tour that’s for sure. 
 

We are constantly letting opposition’s tail take the game away from us as well. We do the hard work and get the big scorers out but seem to struggle getting over the line at the moment. 

[martyn]

The batting is the main issue clearly. Root is the only test quality player in there of the genuine batsmen. The slip catching over the last few series has been as bad as it has ever been as well.

 

I know the seam attack is a bit samey, but we've been stuffed by Archer and even Stone not being available to rotate with Wood and get some express pace into the side. Generally you can still rely on the bowling more times than not to do their job, but it makes their job so much harder when you can't bat for more than a day at a time. 

 

I know Malan has done quite well in this series so far, but a top 3 of Burns, Hameed and Malan has to be one of the worst around in test cricket. I was really hopeful for Ollie Pope, and he has plenty of time, but he looks like a flat track bully at this point, and a walking wicket against spin.

 

Trouble is, who is there in county cricket knocking on the door. I can't think of any obvious top 3 batsmen to come in.

Edited 18 December 2021 by martyn

[Tommy Fresh]

2 hours ago, martyn said:

The batting is the main issue clearly. Root is the only test quality player in there of the genuine batsmen. The slip catching over the last few series has been as bad as it has ever been as well.

 

I know the seam attack is a bit samey, but we've been stuffed by Archer and even Stone not being available to rotate with Wood and get some express pace into the side. Generally you can still rely on the bowling more times than not to do their job, but it makes their job so much harder when you can't bat for more than a day at a time. 

 

I know Malan has done quite well in this series so far, but a top 3 of Burns, Hameed and Malan has to be one of the worst around in test cricket. I was really hopeful for Ollie Pope, and he has plenty of time, but he looks like a flat track bully at this point, and a walking wicket against spin.

 

Trouble is, who is there in county cricket knocking on the door. I can't think of any obvious top 3 batsmen to come in.

Sam Robson should have been off with the Lions, strange he hasn't been given another go but Hameed has sooner with poorer output

[trabuch]

Horrible. Seems to be no TMS.

[Duquesne Whistle]

4 minutes ago, trabuch said:

Horrible. Seems to be no TMS.

Horrible is correct, my bt sport seems to be working perfectly..

Getting up at 4am to watch an Aussie procession is strictly my own doing though.

[CosbehFox]

9 minutes ago, trabuch said:

Horrible. Seems to be no TMS.

Isolating. One of them has tested positive for covid 

[CosbehFox]

WTF is happening here? 

[Duquesne Whistle]

Neser and Harris gone in consecutive overs. Nice start. Sensational catch by Buttler followed by...

Smith dropped on zero by Buttler...

 

 

Too much, too little, too late,.

[trabuch]

Bloody harsh that. Aussies are lucky.

 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, trabuch said:

Bloody harsh that. Aussies are lucky.

 

That luck almost always seems to follow them around at home, the last India tour aside.