Beliall Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 (edited) Me either, I guess I'm too boring to be banned. or maybe i'm just not a **** if you'll allow my own sweeping generalisation Edited 22 January 2022 by Beliall 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Beliall said: Me either, I guess I'm too boring to be banned. or maybe i'm just not a **** if you'll allow my own sweeping generalisation See, this is abusive, so is the perfect example of my point. This is abusive towards all who have been banned at any time. It is a direct breach of the forum rules. I have just reported it as an experiment. I will bet that you do not get a ban. EDIT: And I would not want you to get a ban. But it should illustrate my point. Be abusive and breach forum rules = no ban. Express an opinion in a respectful way which a popular forum-pet does not agree with = instant ban with no communication as to length. Edited 22 January 2022 by The People's Hero Clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliall Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 Just now, The People's Hero said: See, this is abusive, so is the perfect example of my point. This is abusive towards all who have been banned at any time. It is a direct breach of the forum rules. I have just reported it as an experiment. I will bet that you do not get a ban. i would be surprised as well if i was banned for that. because its one post. not a pattern of behaviour. and i haven't circumvented the swear filter. but if i do get banned I'll accept it and get on with my day 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 Just now, Beliall said: i would be surprised as well if i was banned for that. because its one post. not a pattern of behaviour. and i haven't circumvented the swear filter. but if i do get banned I'll accept it and get on with my day I would be disappointed if you were banned. But it is abusive and is a breach of the forum guidelines. You won't be banned for it. If anyone will get re-banned, it will be me, for shining a light on the issue. I notice someone liked one of my posts as well, so I can imagine they might be in line for a ban; it does rather work that way (you might want to 'unlike' - I want say your username!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 11 minutes ago, The People's Hero said: Have you seriously never been banned? Do you post in general chat? Pretty much all bans come from general chat and they are usually interesting conversations but where the admin feel that one particular view needs to be suppressed or threads are moving away from being echo chambers. The ideal here, you understand, is threads of complete consensus which just become ever-growing echo-chambers. I'm not entirely sure why that is sought, but it is. You can essentially abuse anyone you like and break all forum rules and you won't be banned, but if someone 'reports' your post because they disagree with it, and that poster is one of the liked posters, then you'll be banned. Just trust me, I've been through the cycle many many times and I've had many many DMs from others in exactly the same situation. If you've never been banned, then you probably just generally agree with the popular consensus on everything, which is fine, but sometimes its interesting for others to challenge the narrative, even if they are playing devil's advocate. It can generate interesting debate. Its just a shame its frowned upon. Think of it like a dinner party. I like to invite people with interesting views and varying areas of expertise to generate decent debate. My wife will generally discourage that and try to invite people who she thinks will broadly get on and agree. Both are fine, but are very different sorts of conversation and evening. Foxestalk is the latter. Those that conform to the majority forum held opinion, are fine, of course they will never be banned, they contribute to strengthening the agreed upon narrative and everyone can pat themselves on the back as definitely right (it sounds like you're in this group - enjoy it - nothing wrong with it). Those that disagree and might have valuable and interesting contributions aren't welcomed since they contribute toward conflict (conflict isn't always bad) and disagreement and debate. Mods/Admin panic when they see disagreement and so posts need to be deleted and people banned - is it easier to ban the 80% or the 20%. You're in the 80%. I'm in the 20% that says what I think and that sometimes goes against the grain and so I get banned. I know my place and I'm comfortable with it. I've suggested the place would be better without banning myself and others like me. It seems that generally the admin/owners and also probably the general posters here, disagree with that, so there we go. Why struggle? I'm only guessing here, but I have two ideas. On a very local FT-only level, it just makes things easier to moderate - as you mentioned, path of least resistance and the people who mod this forum only have so much time and so many spoons. On a much grander scale, as much as rugged individualism and saying what one thinks is laudable in the right time and place, proper human strength, the strength to guarantee a future when it's really needed, lies in human unity - of thought and therefore action. Of course, that's a bit big for what goes of here but I'm sure you get me. The cut and thrust of debate is often valuable, but sometimes what's true is what's true and...it isn't valuable then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: I'm only guessing here, but I have two ideas. On a very local FT-only level, it just makes things easier to moderate - as you mentioned, path of least resistance and the people who mod this forum only have so much time and so many spoons. On a much grander scale, as much as rugged individualism and saying what one thinks is laudable in the right time and place, proper human strength, the strength to guarantee a future when it's really needed, lies in human unity - of thought and therefore action. Of course, that's a bit big for what goes of here but I'm sure you get me. The cut and thrust of debate is often valuable, but sometimes what's true is what's true and...it isn't valuable then. I agree. The owner/admin are real people with finite time so of course they will do what is easiest/quickest and not necessarily what is 'right' (this is my truth, tell me yours!). Path of least resistance and cut down any disagreement/conflict quickly. For me, the conflict is essential as that is where arguments are scrutinised and we might all learn something; but there we are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 1 minute ago, The People's Hero said: I agree. The owner/admin are real people with finite time so of course they will do what is easiest/quickest and not necessarily what is 'right' (this is my truth, tell me yours!). Path of least resistance and cut down any disagreement/conflict quickly. For me, the conflict is essential as that is where arguments are scrutinised and we might all learn something; but there we are. I can see why you think that because such scrutiny is important; unaccountable power corrupts and often a better solution can be found. So it does need to be done. However, there can and will be points where such conflict will become counterproductive and a unified action needs to be taken, for one of many reasons - lack of time perhaps being one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 Just now, leicsmac said: I can see why you think that because such scrutiny is important; unaccountable power corrupts and often a better solution can be found. So it does need to be done. However, there can and will be points where such conflict will become counterproductive and a unified action needs to be taken, for one of many reasons - lack of time perhaps being one of them. I agree, but we are talking about people being banned from a 'general chat' portion of a website here, having broken no forum rules. Essentially, if you ensure you are in the majority view on a subject, you can abuse anyone with impunity. If you happen to disagree, you will be banned, if one of the forum lap-dogs requests so. I don't think it creates good debate and you must also concede surely that removing all disagreement just leads to stale consensus and back-patting and an echo chamber. Some people of course like to feel reassured that they must be 'right' because all voices to the contrary have been silenced. I find that a very curious position to adopt; but I know its human nature to feel reassured and agreed with so perhaps that's all part of it. Imagine if a political party and then laterally a war mongering government tried that! Echo chambers can be dangerous (but probably not on foxestalk). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalis Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 1 minute ago, The People's Hero said: I agree, but we are talking about people being banned from a 'general chat' portion of a website here, having broken no forum rules. Essentially, if you ensure you are in the majority view on a subject, you can abuse anyone with impunity. If you happen to disagree, you will be banned, if one of the forum lap-dogs requests so. I don't think it creates good debate and you must also concede surely that removing all disagreement just leads to stale consensus and back-patting and an echo chamber. Some people of course like to feel reassured that they must be 'right' because all voices to the contrary have been silenced. I find that a very curious position to adopt; but I know its human nature to feel reassured and agreed with so perhaps that's all part of it. Imagine if a political party and then laterally a war mongering government tried that! Echo chambers can be dangerous (but probably not on foxestalk). In terms on bans, I think its more to do with the manner of how debates and difference of opinions are put across as opposed to the actual opinions themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 1 minute ago, The People's Hero said: I agree, but we are talking about people being banned from a 'general chat' portion of a website here, having broken no forum rules. Essentially, if you ensure you are in the majority view on a subject, you can abuse anyone with impunity. If you happen to disagree, you will be banned, if one of the forum lap-dogs requests so. I don't think it creates good debate and you must also concede surely that removing all disagreement just leads to stale consensus and back-patting and an echo chamber. Some people of course like to feel reassured that they must be 'right' because all voices to the contrary have been silenced. I find that a very curious position to adopt; but I know its human nature to feel reassured and agreed with so perhaps that's all part of it. Imagine if a political party and then laterally a war mongering government tried that! Echo chambers can be dangerous (but probably not on foxestalk). Well, they have and they do - there's quite a few real-world examples. There's also examples of discord between people of one "tribe" meaning an external threat comes in and wipes the floor with them when they might not have done so otherwise. It's a matter of balance, unfortunately where that balance itself lies is also a talking point and so it all gets rather runny. But yeah, with respect to FT only, I think the first explanation about time and spoons makes the most sense. NB. I'd rather that you were not banned tbh, but that is not my department. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duquesne Whistle Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 2 minutes ago, The People's Hero said: I notice someone liked one of my posts as well, so I can imagine they might be in line for a ban; it does rather work that way (you might want to 'unlike' - I want say your username!) Not sure if you're referring to me, I assume so. Nah, I found your post witty and it made me laugh, hence the 'laughing' emoji. I don't want to remove it. Pretty sure I won't be banned for it, but if I am, I'll stand tall and take it on the chin . I'm mostly (though not always) just trying to make people laugh when I post and I respond to others posts I find funny. It wasn't meant as a dig at the poster you were responding too, I just genuinely laughed out loud when I read it. I've only had one ban from memory though (I think). I understood it, but thought the other poster should have been treated the same as they kicked off the argument on both occasions. That is just my opinion though and no one is required to legitimise their decision to me. My 'thoughts' on the decision are inconsequential anyway. I do not contribute financially to the forum and I do enjoy using it, so I wouldn't post a public complaint about anything (I'm not saying it's wrong to do so, just that I personally wouldn't do it). I hope you find some peace with it TPH and please don't stop posting, you regularly make me laugh out loud. I have respect for a man who likes to fight against all the odds, throwing verbal punches as he goes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shade Posted 22 January 2022 Author Share Posted 22 January 2022 1 hour ago, Nalis said: In terms on bans, I think its more to do with the manner of how debates and difference of opinions are put across as opposed to the actual opinions themselves. The perplexing thing for me was it went from people saying how nice it was to see people having differences of opinion but remaining civilised to me having blood on my hands for my interpretation of the official data. 😅 Fair to say it escalated quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 2 minutes ago, shade said: The perplexing thing for me was it went from people saying how nice it was to see people having differences of opinion but remaining civilised to me having blood on my hands for my interpretation of the official data. 😅 Fair to say it escalated quickly. You cannot be sure that was the reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 Great to see some excellent posts here today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrington fox Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 Question. Why am I seeing more of these pop up adverts in this semi banned state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duquesne Whistle Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 (edited) Second thoughts. Edited 22 January 2022 by Duquesne Whistle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shade Posted 22 January 2022 Author Share Posted 22 January 2022 37 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: You cannot be sure that was the reason There in lies the problem, not even an indication what the offending post was. How can I be expected to rehabilitate if I don't know what my offence was, of course we all think we're being reasonable and rational otherwise we wouldn't post what we do. I can say everything I said I tried to back up with sources, and never once resorted to ad hominem attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 The forum operates a chat shit get banned policy, and has for years. Mark explained some time ago that the reason he (or the other mods) don't give a reason for a ban is because they are busy and can't be arsed arguing with people about whether a ban was deserved or not. As someone who has got banned more times than I can count during the brexit debate days, I'd say take a few days, maybe a couple of weeks reflecting then message mark and say you're sorry and ready for another shot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 3 hours ago, shade said: There in lies the problem, not even an indication what the offending post was. How can I be expected to rehabilitate if I don't know what my offence was, of course we all think we're being reasonable and rational otherwise we wouldn't post what we do. I can say everything I said I tried to back up with sources, and never once resorted to ad hominem attacks. It might just be persistence shade, but someone mentioned egregious homophobic stuff - maybe it was that. But once again, I must reiterate it might just be the way you went about what you said rather than the content. Enough people objected to you at the time to tip you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 Whenever I've received a ban it's always been possible to work out why. I've not always agreed with the decision but it's never completely out of the blue, there's always something(s) in my recent posts which I can pinpoint as a likely trigger, again even if I don't agree with the assessment. In my experience if there's a time limit on the ban it will tell you how long is left when you click on a text box in one of the forum's you're banned from, if there's no indication of an end date then it's presumably indefinite in which case you'll need to work out what you did, stop doing it, then have a nice conversation with one of the mods about what can be done to repair your status. If you can't see any reason at all why a ban's been given to you then it's fair to say there's no point removing the ban because you'll more than likely do the same thing again. I would strongly advise against making threads or comments casting aspersions against other users or the mod team, even if you're convinced it's factual and have politely left out any swear words. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinkenzo Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 Can someone not just give him a permanent ban...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 5 hours ago, HighPeakFox said: It might just be persistence shade, but someone mentioned egregious homophobic stuff - maybe it was that. But once again, I must reiterate it might just be the way you went about what you said rather than the content. Enough people objected to you at the time to tip you off. You should get a ban for the use of “egregious” Peaky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 22 January 2022 Share Posted 22 January 2022 (edited) I once got banned for 3 days for calling Ginger fox a copper nob but that’s about it. Edited 22 January 2022 by MPH 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shade Posted 23 January 2022 Author Share Posted 23 January 2022 13 hours ago, HighPeakFox said: It might just be persistence shade, but someone mentioned egregious homophobic stuff - maybe it was that. But once again, I must reiterate it might just be the way you went about what you said rather than the content. Enough people objected to you at the time to tip you off. 👍🏼 It definitely wasn't homophobia, possibly it was insensitivity to the subject though, but I think I know what it was now judging by what posts were deleted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 23 January 2022 Share Posted 23 January 2022 4 hours ago, shade said: 👍🏼 It definitely wasn't homophobia It absolutely was, a pretty unbelievable thing to post in this day and age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts