Daggers Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said: The problem facing the govt right now is that is they are inept and they have given everyone who is a Party member a huge brown envelope stuffed with £millions of public money FTFY 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said: Rishi Sunak is not and has never been an accountant. The NHS has so many problems it is hard to even grasp how to fix it. The problem facing the govt right now is that is they given everyone a huge payrise, they have even less money to employ more people to fill the gaps, and to try and improve. 1) "Huge payrise" seriously... Pay rises that do not exceed inflation are income CUTS! 2) They can have more money simply by taxing the wealthy and corporations at decent levels again, remember when the top tax rate was $0.90 ..now its HALF THAT... and for Corporations its 1/3rd.....oh my... why dont we have enough money to employ more people??? 3) The problem now is that too many wealthy people are pretending they dont know how to solve a revenue shortage, how do people who are supposedly trained in finance continue to shrug and say.. i dont know what to do. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 32 minutes ago, ozleicester said: 1) "Huge payrise" seriously... Pay rises that do not exceed inflation are income CUTS! 2) They can have more money simply by taxing the wealthy and corporations at decent levels again, remember when the top tax rate was $0.90 ..now its HALF THAT... and for Corporations its 1/3rd.....oh my... why dont we have enough money to employ more people??? 3) The problem now is that too many wealthy people are pretending they dont know how to solve a revenue shortage, how do people who are supposedly trained in finance continue to shrug and say.. i dont know what to do. Nurses are asking for 20% no? Inflation is 10.5%. I am not saying they don't deserve it they certainly deserve something decent for a change, just that the government cannot do that and find the money for everything else. Tax rises stifle economic growth. The UK already has high tax rates. If you expect everyone to get a pay rise in line with inflation you are in dreamland. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: Nurses are asking for 20% no? Inflation is 10.5%. I am not saying they don't deserve it they certainly deserve something decent for a change, just that the government cannot do that and find the money for everything else. Tax rises stifle economic growth. The UK already has high tax rates. If you expect everyone to get a pay rise in line with inflation you are in dreamland. Absolute lies... Nurses are asking for 20% no? Inflation is 10.5% - The average pay of an NHS nurse has fallen in real terms by 8% since 2010. Nurses were paid £35,680 on average in the year to April 2022, equating to a reduction of more than £3,000 from a decade earlier after adjusting for inflation. Tax rises stifle economic growth - This is inline with, trickle down. A lie spread by the wealthy The UK already has high tax rates. _ Totally bullshit and corporate Tory spin ... fact is, UK tax rates have fallen for the wealthy, from 90% top tax in the 70s, to 45% in 2022. Corporate rates are as low as 19 fvckigng percent... If you expect everyone to get a pay rise in line with inflation you are in dreamland - Dont ex[ect everyone to get it.. just those who deserve it, not overpaid bankers, corporate criminals tory back door mates can all get a cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 1 minute ago, ozleicester said: Absolute lies... Nurses are asking for 20% no? Inflation is 10.5% - The average pay of an NHS nurse has fallen in real terms by 8% since 2010. Nurses were paid £35,680 on average in the year to April 2022, equating to a reduction of more than £3,000 from a decade earlier after adjusting for inflation. Tax rises stifle economic growth - This is inline with, trickle down. A lie spread by the wealthy The UK already has high tax rates. _ Totally bullshit and corporate Tory spin ... fact is, UK tax rates have fallen for the wealthy, from 90% top tax in the 70s, to 45% in 2022. Corporate rates are as low as 19 fvckigng percent... If you expect everyone to get a pay rise in line with inflation you are in dreamland - Dont ex[ect everyone to get it.. just those who deserve it, not overpaid bankers, corporate criminals tory back door mates can all get a cut I can see we are not going to come to a sensible middle ground here, so I am going to go home and watch the tennis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachhere Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 2 hours ago, LCFCJohn said: I always refer to it as the United States of organisations, one organisation but every department doing its own thing like each state! Ours are good at increasing staff numbers, bigger teams to spread workload to avoid that so I don’t have those issues. I just think it’s a world away from what I did before which was social housing. That was a miserable environment and despite increasing workload and depend, staff numbers were reduced due to external financial factors but it was shocking. And no meaningful pay rises. So now being in the HE sector is such a better experience! Yeah. I bet it is. That must be a really tough sector, especially in recent years. Unfortunately we don't quite have the same experience with staffing, but good to know it's not the same everywhere. I am still a bit mentally scarred from how the workload was during Covid, and I imagine many others feel the same way and aren't quite recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxes1988 Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: Nurses are asking for 20% no? Inflation is 10.5%. I am not saying they don't deserve it they certainly deserve something decent for a change, just that the government cannot do that and find the money for everything else. Tax rises stifle economic growth. The UK already has high tax rates. If you expect everyone to get a pay rise in line with inflation you are in dreamland. If the government expect everyone to take pay rises under inflation for the duration they are in government they are in dreamland. I would take the point about asking for big pay rises now if it was a one off issue and people had been getting pay rises in excess of inflation for at least half the time the Tories have been in government. Austerity followed by party infighting, brexit distractions have meant poor economic growth and low wage rises under inflation most of the time. Covid couldn't be foreseen I get that but Austerity, Party civil wars and Brexit lie squarely on the conservatives which they should have avoided when there were more important things to be focusing on like actually managing the economy and public services. They cant blame anyone for themselves for this. Edited 18 January 2023 by foxes1988 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: I can see we are not going to come to a sensible middle ground here, so I am going to go home and watch the tennis! middle ground....Do you think a nurse should earn as much as you, or your boss? Edited 18 January 2023 by ozleicester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenTheFox Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 (edited) People complaining about NHS staff and teachers striking and at the same time wondering why people are leaving these professions in their droves is my favourite. They completely fail to make the connection that if you were to make these jobs more attractive through the pay packet and through better working conditions, they would retain and attract more staff. Edited 18 January 2023 by BenTheFox 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robo61 Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 23 minutes ago, foxes1988 said: If the government expect everyone to take pay rises under inflation for the duration they are in government they are in dreamland. I would take the point about asking for big pay rises now if it was a one off issue and people had been getting pay rises in access of inflation for at least half the time the Tories have been in government. Austerity followed by party infighting, brexit distractions have meant poor economic growth and low wage rises under inflation most of the time. Covid couldn't be foreseen I get that but Austerity, Party civil wars and Brexit lie squarely on the conservatives which they should have avoided when there were more important things to be focusing on like actually managing the economy and public services. They cant blame anyone for themselves for this. But of course it could have and should have, I seem to remember Johnson doing away with pandemic planning not long after he became PM, or was it May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hankey Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 2 hours ago, CosbehFox said: People kind of forgot that every strike trade unions announce is subject to a ballot from its members….. Some seem to forget about what is going on behind the scenes. They are not acting individually as all these trade unions, collectively, know what they are doing. And in some cases asking for a 19% wage increase just equals cloud cuckoo land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 20 minutes ago, David Hankey said: Some seem to forget about what is going on behind the scenes. They are not acting individually as all these trade unions, collectively, know what they are doing. And in some cases asking for a 19% wage increase just equals cloud cuckoo land. Of course that’s going to happen. You have the TUC which encompasses them all. The art of the negotiation is to aim high. You don’t go into negotiations underplaying yourself 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grobyfox1990 Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 1 hour ago, BenTheFox said: People complaining about NHS staff and teachers striking and at the same time wondering why people are leaving these professions in their droves is my favourite. They completely fail to make the connection that if you were to make these jobs more attractive through the pay packet and through better working conditions, they would retain and attract more staff. Innit - Lee's model in Singapore - I want to attract the best employees into the public system so I will pay the best wages, omg when I have really good and motivated employees in they perform well and the investment is paid back. My wife is a GP (leaving her job next week obviously), Christ if I was her I would've quiet-quit or actually quit donkeys years ago, wouldn't have left it this long but then that is nature of the goodwill of the workforce the Govt are relying upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grobyfox1990 Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 40 minutes ago, David Hankey said: Some seem to forget about what is going on behind the scenes. They are not acting individually as all these trade unions, collectively, know what they are doing. And in some cases asking for a 19% wage increase just equals cloud cuckoo land. Lol dude would be great if I line-managed you at bonus time - who the hell goes in with their first offer being what they actually want?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hankey Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 32 minutes ago, CosbehFox said: Of course that’s going to happen. You have the TUC which encompasses them all. The art of the negotiation is to aim high. You don’t go into negotiations underplaying yourself Also the art of negotiation is to be reasonable and be prepared to compromise. I don't see any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosbehFox Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, David Hankey said: Also the art of negotiation is to be reasonable and be prepared to compromise. I don't see any of that. Well you haven't been following it closely enough then given the RMT aren't too far away from a deal You also weigh up the balance of external factors - public support is still high. Edited 18 January 2023 by CosbehFox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hankey Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 26 minutes ago, CosbehFox said: Well you haven't been following it closely enough then given the RMT aren't too far away from a deal You also weigh up the balance of external factors - public support is still high. But are the RMT prepared to accept that archaic working practices have to change as well? As for public support there is a lot of disgruntlement from rail users who have had their lives disrupted for months. Fortunately, I don't have to rely on this "service". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachhere Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 30 minutes ago, David Hankey said: Also the art of negotiation is to be reasonable and be prepared to compromise. I don't see any of that. It’s hard to compromise if the people you are compromising with won’t listen. It’s clear after listening to the PM and the words coming from various ministers that that is the issue right now. Fed up with their argument as well thst they they are giving these sectors extra resources. Their job isn’t just to throw money about - it’s to understand why things aren’t working and to come up with policies to address those issues. I am sure if you spoke to any teacher they could come up with a list of suggestions for improving schools right now which wouldn’t necessarily require extra investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy G Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 17 hours ago, Charl91 said: I'm a teacher, and will be striking. I didn't strike previously (around 2015/2016) but definitely will be this time around. I used to take to heart all the comments about "lazy teachers". However, I've long since accepted they're from people that, sadly, have been failed by the education system. So maybe in a roundabout way it's penance that teachers deserve. Thats quite an assumption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 25 minutes ago, Tommy G said: Thats quite an assumption I would agree. I'm betting a lot of people who might share such a sentiment are smart and well educated. Just lacking in empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy G Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 4 minutes ago, leicsmac said: I would agree. I'm betting a lot of people who might share such a sentiment are smart and well educated. Just lacking in empathy. Not empathy as such - there is a big divide between private sector and public sector pay, no one in the private sector is getting 10% plus payrises, a few maybe but not all. The reason this has now come to light in regards to years and years of under inflation public sector payrises is due to current levels of inflation. If we gave everyone in our business double digit payrises we wouldn't be profitable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 7 minutes ago, Tommy G said: Not empathy as such - there is a big divide between private sector and public sector pay, no one in the private sector is getting 10% plus payrises, a few maybe but not all. The reason this has now come to light in regards to years and years of under inflation public sector payrises is due to current levels of inflation. If we gave everyone in our business double digit payrises we wouldn't be profitable! This may well be true, it might not be - quite frankly I'm not well versed enough on economics to be sure. However, what I *do* know is that decrying a group of people trying to ensure their life doesn't get worse, unless there is a very direct, very obviously proven link that it will make the lives of more people worse by so doing, is showing a lack of empathy towards fellow human beings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 The mantra for pay for top bosses is you have to pay top dollar to attract and retain the best talent. Funny this does not go for everybody else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy G Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said: The mantra for pay for top bosses is you have to pay top dollar to attract and retain the best talent. Funny this does not go for everybody else. So is your argument everyone should get ''top dollar'' irregardless of talent or output levels? I'm confused. Edited 18 January 2023 by Tommy G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 18 January 2023 Share Posted 18 January 2023 21 minutes ago, Tommy G said: So is your argument everyone should get ''top dollar'' irregardless of talent or output levels? I'm confused. That top bosses are often overpaid compared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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