Tactics Under Maresca

[st albans fox]

32 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

The match against Liverpool has just started, and I will do a bigger write-up tonight, but you know what, even if we get battered, I've seen enough in this first 10 minutes to make me very, VERY excited.

 

Get Enzo his attacking players FFS. This guy will turn us into a brilliant team.

 

For me this is a breath of fresh air. I am reminded of Brighton TBH, a mid-table team that dares to play an attacking and entertaining style.

Agree 100% 

[StriderHiryu]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Agree 100% 

Just as well we are ok getting battered!

[st albans fox]

Just now, StriderHiryu said:

Just as well we are ok getting battered!

It doesn’t matter pre season and dare I say it,  if it happens as a one off early on in the season then as long as it’s used to move forwards with positive changes then it’s not the end of the world (2015 arsenal H 2-5) 

[Deeg67]

Massive overreaction, getting tonked by Liverpool was quite predictable.

 

This system is not about playing teams like this - it's about beating teams we should (on paper) be able to bully and dominate possession against.  Which should (on paper) be most of them.  it leaves us massively exposed against opponents like this but it's not like there are any opponents like this in the Championship.  Would you want Enzo to park the bus in a preseason match or play his system and use it as a teaching experience?

 

Now, if we get promoted, you have to recalibrate.  We'll have to bring in better players, and like every newly-promoted PL side we'll have to be more pragmatic.  But that's a problem for if and when we get there - you have to get promoted first.

Edited 30 July 2023 by Deeg67

[Kinowe Soorie]

More like tic tacs 

[Lionator]

the first half an hour was great so I’m not having Enzo criticism. He has a lot of bad habits to unpick and turn around. 

[Scotch]

8 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Massive overreaction, getting tonked by Liverpool was quite predictable.

 

This system is not about playing teams like this - it's about beating teams we should (on paper) be able to bully and dominate possession against.  Which should (on paper) be most of them.  it leaves us massively exposed against opponents like this but it's not like there are any opponents like this in the Championship.  Would you want Enzo to park the bus in a preseason match or play his system and use it as a teaching experience?

 

Now, if we get promoted, you have to recalibrate.  We'll have to bring in better players, and like every newly-promoted PL side we'll have to be more pragmatic.  But that's a problem for if and when we there - you have to get promoted first.

It's not so much the quality of opposition I'm worried about. As tou rightly point out, we won't be playing teams at Liverpools level thos year. It's the high press. Any team who are somewhat decent at it will give us trouble. 

 

You can only get away with those little passes between the defence and DM if A, the opposition sit off or B, the players making those passes are decent under pressure and the latter seems to be questionable at the moment. 

[Verumex]

12 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Massive overreaction, getting tonked by Liverpool was quite predictable.

 

This system is not about playing teams like this - it's about beating teams we should (on paper) be able to bully and dominate possession against.  Which should (on paper) be most of them.  it leaves us massively exposed against opponents like this but it's not like there are any opponents like this in the Championship.  Would you want Enzo to park the bus in a preseason match or play his system and use it as a teaching experience?

 

Now, if we get promoted, you have to recalibrate.  We'll have to bring in better players, and like every newly-promoted PL side we'll have to be more pragmatic.  But that's a problem for if and when we there - you have to get promoted first.

Exactly what I came in here to say. 

 

We're playing a system that is designed to take advantage of being the team with the most possession in a game. In the Championship that will be the scenario for almost every game in the season.

 

Against Liverpool, that was never going to happen so it falls apart. But in a friendly against them, we still want to stick to the formation because we need to practice it.

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Lionator said:

the first half an hour was great so I’m not having Enzo criticism. He has a lot of bad habits to unpick and turn around. 

 

The only thing that'll annoy me is if we haven't actually made further signings come the start of the season but we persist with the same system anyway. 

 

I dont mind him preparing the squad for the football he wants them to play that's fine but it assumes we get round pegs for round holes before the window shuts and at the moment that's looking increasingly unlikely. 

 

When he arrived, the best team we could put out was a 352 using two of our strikers and getting width from our selection of pretty decent wing backs. They're the two positions I'd argue we're objectively strongest. 

 

It's not his preferred system or shape that's fine. But we're a week out from the first game of the season and it's STILL the best team we can put out. 

 

Is that his fault? No. Not his job to build the squad. But it will be his fault if we line up against Coventry without Ricardo and someone like JJ being wide attacking threats, with two of our three strikers sat on the bench and with Ndidi still being on the receiving end of most of our best moves.

 

It was eyebrow raising against Northampton. It's actually a bit concerning now. 

 

[SuperMike]

Tactics???  WTF - playing a passing/possession game when your players can't pass or retain possession!!!!

ABSURD!

[coolhandfox]

2 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

Tactics???  WTF - playing a passing/possession game when your players can't pass or retain possession!!!!

ABSURD!

You do know we aren't going to be playing Liverpool every week?

 

[TonyN11]

Hoping I'll be patient enough this season,  even if we get 5 points from our first 5 games. If we can be in the top 6 at Christmas that'll do for me 

[st albans fox]

23 minutes ago, Verumex said:

Exactly what I came in here to say. 

 

We're playing a system that is designed to take advantage of being the team with the most possession in a game. In the Championship that will be the scenario for almost every game in the season.

 

Against Liverpool, that was never going to happen so it falls apart. But in a friendly against them, we still want to stick to the formation because we need to practice it.

And we will exploit this way of playing if the opposition try and press us high.  If they sit back then it becomes irrelevant. Look at how brighton play - they take the ball back to their keeper or CB’s just outside their box and wait for the other team to try and press the ball - away from home you can do that because the home fans won’t allow their team to just sit off. At the KP we are going to need to make the running 

[Dahnsouff]

23 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

You do know we aren't going to be playing Liverpool every week?

 

Outlook uncertain…

[Dahnsouff]

26 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

Tactics???  WTF - playing a passing/possession game when your players can't pass or retain possession!!!!

ABSURD!

So we should spend our time practising a system for a team and their ilk we won’t be playing during the season? You should definitely be in charge…

[SuperMike]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

So we should spend our time practising a system for a team and their ilk we won’t be playing during the season? You should definitely be in charge…

Didn't mention opposition. Thats a different thread. This is 'tactics' - nothing to do with Liverpool.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, SuperMike said:

Didn't mention opposition. Thats a different thread. This is 'tactics' - nothing to do with Liverpool.

But you are complaining because we lost to Liverpool, but nice try

[Deeg67]

50 minutes ago, Scotch said:

It's not so much the quality of opposition I'm worried about. As tou rightly point out, we won't be playing teams at Liverpools level thos year. It's the high press. Any team who are somewhat decent at it will give us trouble. 

 

You can only get away with those little passes between the defence and DM if A, the opposition sit off or B, the players making those passes are decent under pressure and the latter seems to be questionable at the moment. 

I know people don't want to hear it, but this is why someone like Praet (if he leaves, you need to replace him with a similar player) as a #8 is vital to keep around in the new regime.  He's calm in possession and can pick a pass.  There were a lot of guys out there for us today who don't really fit Enzo's system and, I suspect, won't be playing much when the games count.

[An Sionnach]

As usual with tactics, they are subject to massive revision as they become just scribbling on a white board. If you haven't got the players , nothing much works. You end up flying by the seat of your pants.

[SuperMike]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

But you are complaining because we lost to Liverpool, but nice try

No! Just saying that the manager  appears to think our players are of a standard that can emulate Man. City  -  as I say: ABSURD. Paulo Sousa levels of absurdity!

Edited 30 July 2023 by SuperMike
Spelling!

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, SuperMike said:

No! Just saying that the manager  appears to think our players are of a standard that can emulate Man. City  -  as I say: ABSURD. Paulo Sousa levels if absurdity!

Fair enough, not sure the opposition is indicative of this seasons opponents, so unsure if we can draw that we can draw that conclusion just yet, but if it is, then yes. It won’t work with these personnel

[boosmanana]

1 minute ago, SuperMike said:

No! Just saying that the manager  appears to think our players are of a standard that can emulate Man. City  -  as I say: ABSURD. Paulo Sousa levels if absurdity!

I think it's time for you to go to bed, pal 

[Lionator]

5 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

No! Just saying that the manager  appears to think our players are of a standard that can emulate Man. City  -  as I say: ABSURD. Paulo Sousa levels of absurdity!

I'm pretty certain that he doesn't think that. He's trying to implement a style of play that can work with the correct players (which is the issue). That style is not some insanely complex method of playing and we've seen that these players cannot implement the dreary Rodgers ball that took us to where we are now.

[Izzy]

11 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

As usual with tactics, they are subject to massive revision as they become just scribbling on a white board. If you haven't got the players , nothing much works. You end up flying by the seat of your pants.

As Brian Clough once said, “tactics don’t win you matches, players do”

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Against Liverpool, we kept the 433/3412 but moved Ricardo to left-back and Castagne to right back. This was done to deal with their dangerous wide-men such as Salah (who Ricardo was assigned to mark when off the ball).

 

This meant that Ricardo inverted from LB instead of RB, and Castagne dropped into become the RCB. In this game, McAteer played as LW instead of as a number 8 against Northampton.

 

I believe Daka was selected as Liverpool play a high line, giving us a fast outlet on the fast turnover.

This was what confused me though - ricardo was pulled away from his inside role on a number of occasions, or came inside and left space for Salah out wide. Resulting in him being out of position for the first goal (though he still should have done better?

 

I did notice that we resorted more to playing the diagonal balls over the top, rather than try to play through a congested middle.

 

What pleased me most was that we stuck to the tactics despite playing against one of the most well-organised, high-pressing teams in the country - and, to varying degrees, we had spells where we didn't look like we belonged a division below them.  From a tactical point of view, i thought today was the perfect test - no one in the EFL will play as hard as that - so, despite the scoreline, i think they'll actually come out of the game with a good deal of confidence in the tactics and their ability to play this way.

Edited 30 July 2023 by Lillehamring