HS2

[Wymsey]

A great idea or not?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66468773

 

Am very conflicted about it personally; yes there are passenger delays, but that's quite normal, but believe the current train operation system fine in the country.

[Eurofox]

it's the most expensive train service in the WORLD...

Tory privatisation...

Brexit Britannia 

[leicsmac]

I look at the rail infrastructure in the UK and then at the same in Korea (a similarly sized nation) and the difference utterly befuddles me.

 

Clearly there have to be wholesale changes to bring the system to anything approaching the 21st century, but I don't know how it can be done without lots of money and even more disruption.

[Fox92]

No, never has been a good idea.

 

It's tough because of how old our railways are but electrification of all main lines should have always been the priority. Even now, in 2023, Sheffield to Leicester is not electrified and they've only recently completed the south part.

[Shit_arse]

We're not going to build any more motorway so this really is the only transport infrastructure we can build 

 

It will be a 'green' form of transport once completed 

[Shit_arse]

Just now, Fox92 said:

No, never has been a good idea.

 

It's tough because of how old our railways are but electrification of all main lines should have always been the priority. Even now, in 2023, Sheffield to Leicester is not electrified and they've only recently completed the south part.

 

How can it not be a good idea, but then you suggest electrifying existing is a good idea?

 

We cannot electrify all existing lines because of the infrastructure that's been built up around them - new trains, equipment etc. just isn't possible on the a large amount of the existing infrastructure.  

[Shit_arse]

11 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

A great idea or not?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66468773

 

Am very conflicted about it personally; yes there are passenger delays, but that's quite normal, but believe the current train operation system fine in the country.

 

I agree but I think the current operating model of the trains/network in the country is a completely different issue to HS2 and should not be confused with why we are going ahead with the build. 

 

I think we should build HS2 and I think we should come up with a new operating model for all current operators.  

[RoboFox]

Maybe they should think about investing the money into our current staggeringly outdated rail network before going ahead with this?

 

Train services in this country are a disgrace and that's down to both our victorian railways, and a failed privatisation model for which we're all literally paying the price in both fares and subsidization. These companies rake in massive profits whilst providing extortionate 3rd world services that make us an international laughing stock. 

 

Cancel HS2, nationalise the whole fvcking lot of them, invest in the infastructure, and let's catch up with the rest of Western Europe.

 

Edited 11 August 2023 by RoboFox

[Fox92]

4 minutes ago, Shit_arse said:

 

How can it not be a good idea, but then you suggest electrifying existing is a good idea?

 

We cannot electrify all existing lines because of the infrastructure that's been built up around them - new trains, equipment etc. just isn't possible on the a large amount of the existing infrastructure.  

I'm not saying all lines, I'm saying mainlines. West Coast/East Coast is already electrified, years ago, Midland needs to be done and should have been done before/instead of HS2. South part already complete but by the time they get up here (north part) it will be 2040. So yeah it is possible as they have outlined. One issue is bridges but they work around it as they did on the West Coast.

 

 

Edited 11 August 2023 by Fox92

[Lako42]

A complete load of old bollocks. 

 

 

Biggest waste of money in the countries long history 

[Foxdiamond]

Perhaps the money would have been better spent on upgrades on rest of network and west to east connections.

[Vacamion]

 

NIMBYs obsessed with their property values rather than the good of the country.

 

Weak politicians, cowing to the NIMBYs

 

Honking existing infrastructure

 

The fact that they deem rail companies exist to make profits for shareholders and bonuses for Execs, rather than actually serve the passengers.

 

Cheap flights, pumping out CO2.

 

The country being so utterly London-centric.

 

HSR never really had a chance.  IF (big IF) it ever gets completed it will be over budget, over time and shit for purpose.

 

What a craphole of a country we have become.

 

 

 

[davieG]

Privatisation has been a shambles along with water and energy and considering it was done on the back of the government not wanting to put money into British Rail it has cost the government/taxpayer millions and that's with out HS2.

 

The money should have been put into local services outside of London which continues to have massive investment.

[rachhere]

I am on the pro side overall. The issue is just how congested that line is between around Rugby to London as lots of different routes all converge. If the line gets blocked (quite a frequent occurrence) the resulting delays across the train network are significant, and it also restricts ability to improve local services because there’s just no capacity. 
 

The issue here is the implementation of the plan - not the principles of the plan itself. 

[Stadt]

Britain lacks rail capacity so it's necessary to add more. It's staggeringly expensive because of the general bureaucracy in Britain and our planning system makes almost everything needlessly difficult. 

 

The last reservoir built in Britain was in 1981 (not as if we need anymore water eh), maybe such a sclerotic planning process isn't a good thing.

 

More electrification isn't mutually exclusive either.

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 August 2023 by Stadt

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, RoboFox said:

Maybe they should think about investing the money into our current staggeringly outdated rail network before going ahead with this?

 

Train services in this country are a disgrace and that's down to both our victorian railways, and a failed privatisation model for which we're all literally paying the price in both fares and subsidization. These companies rake in massive profits whilst providing extortionate 3rd world services that make us an international laughing stock. 

 

Cancel HS2, nationalise the whole fvcking lot of them, invest in the infastructure, and let's catch up with the rest of Western Europe.

 

99% agree however we need to double down now and get it built. 

 

While we're at it a HS3 from Liverpool up to Newcastle or Edinburgh via Manchester, Sheffield/Leeds and York should happen but obviously never will. 

[ajthefox]

At the moment it feels like it get's progressively more botched up the further we get into it.

 

The government have already spent a few hundred million on design fees alone for the Euston Station, which now seems in doubt because of the costs. Stopping at Old Oak Common seems a bit daft.

 

Trains here are often shit and expensive and it feels like we're so far behind a lot of europe. We need better infrastructure and we need to invest to do that, you can't help but think we're going to make a pigs ear of this.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

At the moment it feels like it get's progressively more botched up the further we get into it.

 

The government have already spent a few hundred million on design fees alone for the Euston Station, which now seems in doubt because of the costs. Stopping at Old Oak Common seems a bit daft.

 

Trains here are often shit and expensive and it feels like we're so far behind a lot of europe. We need better infrastructure and we need to invest to do that, you can't help but think we're going to make a pigs ear of this.

And lightyears behind a lot of the Far East.

[Stadt]

Shelving HS2 is probably worse for any rail infrastructure development in the future. No matter how viable the narrative will set in it's a white elephant blah blah blah, it's too expensive, we should send X on Y instead.

[Dunge]

The high speed railway they should have built is Liverpool to Hull with stops at all the major cities in between.

 

Building this to London is a waste of money when London-based businesses should be embracing hybrid working.

[The Syrup]

The newest generation of trains are bi-mode, so can run on overhead electric wires or a diesel engine. They don't even have to stop to swap between the two. Should make modernising the existing infrastructure that little bit easier. Currently the midland mainline is being wired up to South Wigston junction, but because of difficulties in wiring under London Road bridge into Leicester station (not enough clearance between train and bridge) I think the current plan is to wire from Syston northwards. The bit through Leicester to be wired at a later date.

 

The main reason for HS2 originally was to free up space on the west coast mainline which is at capacity. Obviously people's commuting habits have now changed plus the project management is a bit of a shambles. Just look at the crossrail project in London for a similar major rail shambles.

[wattolcfc]

The cynic in me believes that it was only agreed so that the government could siphon more money off to their mates and business’ that they have a vested interest in. 

[Lako42]

7 hours ago, Lionator said:

99% agree however we need to double down now and get it built. 

 

While we're at it a HS3 from Liverpool up to Newcastle or Edinburgh via Manchester, Sheffield/Leeds and York should happen but obviously never will. 

And what about the Midlands which is being utterly shafted through pathetic station locations of HS2. 

 

 

[The Year Of The Fox]

Absolutely ridiculous idea

 

How about instead of spunking all this money away, they make the railway system we do have effective and affordable? 
 

If you want to get to Manchester 15 mins earlier then get out of bed earlier 

[Heathrow fox]

I’m for any major infrastructure projects.Unfortunately this one will likely cost up to three times the original quote.With the proposed extensions being axed.Linking the major Towns along the M62 like the poster above suggested should have been the priority.Still would be a very very costly build.