Mickyblueeyes Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 11 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Terrorism costs money. Are most terrorists not state sponsored albeit covertly somewhere? The United States is the big main boogeyman of the Islamic extremist and China is the big main boogeyman of the United States. What Islamic regime with the finances to support major international terrorist cells is going to send them after China when China is a significant ally of both Iran and Saudi? It's exactly why NATO members look the other way when Turkey and Israel (not to mention the US themselves) do horrific shit. Politics and economics run everything, religion is just a tool to get people whipped up and bought it. It's far less important to the psychopaths in charge than it is to the average Joe on the street. Listen to this man.
Lionator Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 It seems like the US is pushing Israel to postpone a ground offensive unless they can come up with a credible 'exit strategy', which seems wise to me. We saw with Iraq, Afghanistan and Russia in Ukraine that going in all guns blazing with no exit strategy leads to utter catastrophe (even worse than what has already happened).
leicsmac Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 Russia floats a UN resolution regarding humanitarian solutions. US and UK (among others) veto it because it doesn't state the obvious that Hamas are Very Bad People. Sigh.
The Horse's Mouth Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 On 16/10/2023 at 06:17, LFox99 said: Have you seen some of the rallies all over Europe in the last couple of days? Those weren't "we're unhappy with the foreign policy of Israel" protests, those were full-on vitriolic "death to all jews" rallies. Groups in Berlin went through neighbourhoods and marked the houses and businesses of jewish people with stars of david, the same way the nazis did before WW2. Anyone who is unable to see the need for a jewish state needs to give their head a wobble. You can criticise Israel's settlement policy, you can criticise Netanyahu for being a corrupt, right wing ****, but to equate Hamas to Israel is out of order. One is a terrorist organisation mindlessly slaughtering, raping, torturing, kidnapping civilians purely for being of a certain religion while the other side tries to protect the very same people from having those things happen to them. The Israelis were literally evacuating women and children to the precise location that were going to bomb, they’ve continuously killed the innocent since this conflict began and have committed various war crimes, they’re both sickening. And I’m not disputing the need for the Jewish state, I’m criticising the current regime. You should probably understand from my post that I don’t support people saying gas the Jews and such, it was literally my point in taking sides in the conflict where both sides have committed evil atrocities to the other 1
Guest Kopfkino Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: Russia floats a UN resolution regarding humanitarian solutions. US and UK (among others) veto it because it doesn't state the obvious that Hamas are Very Bad People. Sigh. Well state the obvious then, it’s not exactly difficult is it? The Brazilians managed it and guess what there’s some constructive discussions still ongoing around it.
leicsmac Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 8 minutes ago, Kopfkino said: Well state the obvious then, it’s not exactly difficult is it? The Brazilians managed it and guess what there’s some constructive discussions still ongoing around it. Yeah, you're right. It's just stupid on the part of all parties that there's disagreement on that at all, or that a resolution that could get things moving is voted down based on arguing the toss about a fact that's purely symbolic in terms of the agreement itself. NB. I hope my reply last night clarified things.
Guest Kopfkino Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: Yeah, you're right. It's just stupid on the part of all parties that there's disagreement on that at all, or that a resolution that could get things moving is voted down based on arguing the toss about a fact that's purely symbolic in terms of the agreement itself. NB. I hope my reply last night clarified things. It did. We just come at it from different angles really and the wouldn’t it be lovely to skip around a meadow with daisy chains on like 6 year olds doesn’t compute in my brain. I also read this thread and could say a lot but I don’t think anyone needs the deep philosophical, historical and geopolitical crap that I feel like saying so I just channel it towards, ‘oh he’s doing that hyper rational ideal stuff again’.
leicsmac Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 3 minutes ago, Kopfkino said: It did. We just come at it from different angles really and the wouldn’t it be lovely to skip around a meadow with daisy chains on like 6 year olds doesn’t compute in my brain. I also read this thread and could say a lot but I don’t think anyone needs the deep philosophical, historical and geopolitical crap that I feel like saying so I just channel it towards, ‘oh he’s doing that hyper rational ideal stuff again’. Fair enough and well said, mon ami. I think we just look at our species and what it does (and what it can do) as a whole in a different way, really, and that's fair enough too.
String fellow Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 (edited) I get the feeling that this expected ground invasion of Gaza isn't going to happen after all. The delay brought about by American shuttle diplomacy plus the threats of escalation from Iran and the difficulty of urban warfare all suggest to me that the Israeli government has decided not to use the Hamas attack as a pretext for what they perhaps now consider too high a risk operation to go through with, despite all the earlier rhetoric. Edited 17 October 2023 by String fellow
StanSP Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 School hit during Israeli air strikes. I guess their excuse will be that Hamas soldiers were hiding inside... 1
bmt Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 14 minutes ago, StanSP said: School hit during Israeli air strikes. I guess their excuse will be that Hamas soldiers were hiding inside... It's a UN-run school too. Wonder what would be said if it was Russia
FoxesDeb Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 Reports now that a hospital in Gaza has been hit by an Israeli air strike with estimates of 200-300 people killed.
Mickyblueeyes Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 26 minutes ago, StanSP said: School hit during Israeli air strikes. I guess their excuse will be that Hamas soldiers were hiding inside... Genuinely would like to hear what the justification is for this. Because, this, alongside the hospital is a bit ****ed up. 2
Jattdogg Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 Gone too far awhile ago, this must stop now. 4
Zear0 Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 All going a bit "Special Military Operation" this.
leicsmac Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said: Genuinely would like to hear what the justification is for this. Because, this, alongside the hospital is a bit ****ed up. At a fundamental level, once you burrow through all of the flowery language, it simply comes down to "sorry, but they're collateral damage and this happens in every war and we're not really going to apologise or answer for it", I think. Edited 17 October 2023 by leicsmac
Lionator Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 4 minutes ago, Zear0 said: All going a bit "Special Military Operation" this. At least there was some (rather delusional) strategy to that madness. This is just outright killing for the sake of it. 2
FoxesDeb Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 Gaza health ministry now reporting at least 500 people killed in the hospital strike 2
Mickyblueeyes Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 11 minutes ago, leicsmac said: At a fundamental level, once you burrow through all of the flowery language, it simply comes down to "sorry, but they're collateral damage and this happens in every war and we're not really going to apologise or answer for it", I think. I’d also be really interested to hear if the hospital was in the north or south of Gaza. Because if it’s in the south, that’s actually ****ed and no one can properly justify it.
Zear0 Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 2 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said: I’d also be really interested to hear if the hospital was in the north or south of Gaza. Because if it’s in the south, that’s actually ****ed and no one can properly justify it. It's in Gaza city...
Lionator Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 5 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said: I’d also be really interested to hear if the hospital was in the north or south of Gaza. Because if it’s in the south, that’s actually ****ed and no one can properly justify it. North.
MPH Posted 17 October 2023 Author Posted 17 October 2023 39 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said: I’d also be really interested to hear if the hospital was in the north or south of Gaza. Because if it’s in the south, that’s actually ****ed and no one can properly justify it. Umm…. I’m not sure anyone can justify hitting a hospital in the North either…. 1
Mickyblueeyes Posted 17 October 2023 Posted 17 October 2023 2 minutes ago, MPH said: Umm…. I’m not sure anyone can justify hitting a hospital in the North either…. Fair point
Recommended Posts