Finance over football

[Corky]

27 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I think that FFP being introduced during the peak covid years also seems probably one of the dumbest things ever. Its just a shit show designed by muppets. 

It was introduced in 2013.

[weller54]

22 hours ago, Lineker's Left Foot said:

Football has been destroyed and sold

its soul to the devil.

 

I will always love my club, but with a young family, can’t afford to go anymore.  Amazed that we witnessed the PL title and Cup Final win but since it has seemed as a little bit of an anti climax.

 

Wish the Big Six would join their Super League and football can return to how it used to be for us.  Now I know why people follow more Non League teams now.

 

 

Great post!

Sad post too.

Everything you've said is spot on.

[weller54]

8 hours ago, Happy Fox said:

You should because if we are lumped in the championship we are going to stay here for the foreseeable future. Getting promoted is absolutely imperative.

So rejoining the PL circus actually excites you does it?   

 

[trooky]

Football is ****ing shit these days, the biggest clubs have manipulated the authorities into creating financial rules that prevent the smaller teams from competing.

 

Our PL title really pissed them off and the big 6 have conspired to prevent a smaller club ever winning it again.

 

[Globalfox]

We all have opinions but I think we lose sight of why FFP was introduced that was to stop clubs going out of existence through overspending. Why because owners had no sense in some cases spending way beyond their means and things being too far gone to come back from the brink. A major club going under could have brought the whole pile down. The next issue was perennial failures to pay HMRC. Government was never going to let that continue and FFP has improved not completely solved it. FFP is not well designed because there were no precedents. Hence it morphed into PSR. Clubs are still not well run in many ways and we are a fair example. We never planned to be successful and ended up over paying players including many average ones who have sat and piled on the pounds at our expense. The challenge is that the revenue difference across the leagues is just too great. The upcoming FA Cup tie at Chelsea shows this. Large numbers of sales of seats at  750 pounds plus makes more than Leicesters Whole West Stand including hospitality. Simple we just don’t compete and never will.

[BertFill]

59 minutes ago, trooky said:

Our PL title really pissed them off and the big 6 have conspired to prevent a smaller club ever winning it again.

It's not just us winning it, it's been an ongoing process since - I don't know, since scrapping gate sharing with the away club? Abolition of the maximum wage? We probably did accelerate it a bit though. The whole point of inventing the Premier League was basically so that clubs like us would never win it, so they've had to step up a gear to make ot even harder.

[Stadt]

5 hours ago, BertFill said:

Maybe. Or maybe we just got lucky with a few signings.

Who really knows? Given that Vardy got to the age he did before a league club signed him, and how ridiculously good he was, perhaps nobody really knows anything and it's all just luck.

I am sympathetic to this point of view 

[MattFox]

4 minutes ago, Stadt said:

I am sympathetic to this point of view 

Easy to forget at the same time we had Pearson, KP had idiots like Terry Robinson around the place

[Foxdiamond]

26 minutes ago, BertFill said:

It's not just us winning it, it's been an ongoing process since - I don't know, since scrapping gate sharing with the away club? Abolition of the maximum wage? We probably did accelerate it a bit though. The whole point of inventing the Premier League was basically so that clubs like us would never win it, so they've had to step up a gear to make ot even harder.

Even at the time I thought scrapping the gate money share was bad 

[Dan LCFC]

Goals decided in a studio. League positions decided in the courtroom. I can only conclude there's sabotage.

[Chico1958]

Does this explain the last four performances.

 

Has it got into the players heads along with Enzo's.

 

It might explain a lot tbf.

[fuchsntf]

On 06/03/2024 at 23:36, Ricey said:

We are in an era of VAR, FFP, P&S, points deductions, adjudication panels, appeals, lawyers…blah blah.

 

It’s depressing.

 

It’s greed, but there is also so much bad governance surrounding it all.

And sensational media & journalism….

Too many people biting on everything this weeks media have

concocted from each others stories & fans forums sheer taste

of soap-opera stories.

FFP doesn’t have Leicester has a target..Euefa want rules and regulations

on clubs finances…W.Ham,Leicester,Everton,N.Forest,

and many other “also ran clubs” through Europe over the last 5 years leaned too much out of their own Financial window.Trying to play “ keep up” with the quality

needs in a crazy world of football transfer and wages market…

Then the issue itself is working with the various leagues,with P&S and their various adjudication ,

becoming IMO OTT ,by simply just having too many levels and legs ,with clubs being More answerable to too many “ named arbitrators & panels,simply because the different League overseers..PL,Championship,EFL,& FA.

are by nature different entities..!!

This is what causes for any fan the confusion,also through Europe,with different

leagues + their Traditional FAs..Because of the players themselves who are now also finding it difficult to find a market for their different skill level or quality .

 

The need for a better all round control was needed, whether we like it or not

clubs and their lawyers have the right to contend,the various regulations,because

at present though good minded,their are modern ideas regulations not yet upto

,….mmm for a better words upto scratch, Some top clubs lawyers are finding

holes across the board,which then causes clever delays and holes that seem to

the clubs and their fans somewhat unfair…

 

So even when descisions are made they are up from all clubs Lawyers for contention until proved otherwise..or some points are so blatant,….overspending in transfer & wage levels then regulationary disciplines to which actually  all clubs indirectly & directly approved of…

 

Those holes  across or in the different owners of the laws and regulations are still of yet partly from clubs up for contention.

I don’t think at present we have yet a single body with a system that is working

for promoted,relegated sides,or even successfull sides..The dust being kicked up,

first has to settle and it’s first middle found across all  European  leagues and their interfaces.Players  are sold & bought across Europe or world wide

In this annoying frustrating financial world of football,thank god that there are lawyers who question argue ,both sides of the issues,for or against clubs..

Media question disparity or incorrect and correct conclusions between clubs FFP /P&S finances and said regulations was/is right.In this they do good journalist work

Its just that other and so many different media platforms & their deliberate speculations on the “could be” scenarios that is often frustrating for the fans and deliberately muddies the water…

That the honest fans can neither find any middle ground of understanding.

We live in a Social media world of clickbait,and fans picking upon any piece of dross information that is picked up by dross media…

But many fans love just any information,and will themselves speculate run with it and live off it for months..

 

 

 

 

 

[urban fox]

So, apparently Southampton are reportedly going to sue us if we get promoted and have breached the rules. We in turn are going to sue Everton. 

Meanwhile we, along with Everton (again), forest, villa, wolves, Chelsea, and possibly a few others face possible points deductions for next season.

can someone please tell me how the whole system is not broken?

the PL etc saw this coming, have likely already been informed by several clubs that they may potentially breach, hence the climb down and reduction in Everton’s points deduction.

would love to see clubs effectively going on strike, refusing to fulfil fixtures until the whole mess is sorted out

[RonnieTodger]

The elephant in the room is the wages that players earn. It is not sustainable. 

[foxile5]

14 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

The elephant in the room is the wages that players earn. It is not sustainable. 

Nor is it justified.

 

The verb these guys do for a living is 'play'. They're non-essential in society. As in they serve absolutely NO purpose in the betterment of society, really. If we abolish football then nothing much changes. People have other sources of entertainment to turn to. Infact, people are a little bit better off financially for it. They are massively replaceable.

 

The same cannot be said about Surgeons, Binmen, Teachers, Nurses, and loads of other roles in society. 

 

I'm not advocating for the above to be paid like footballers but just want to underline the utter uselessness of footballers in society. They don't serve any progressive function at all. Before someone comes in to point out that this is the nature of capitalism and private enterprise with supply and demand being what it is etc. I know. I know. I am aware.

 

It is just baffling how it has come to this. That we pay people who do nothing, produce nothing, help nothing, and create nothing the riches that they get. A symptom of a broken society.

Edited 8 March by foxile5

[weller54]

Really hate this era!!

Everything is fvcked up.

Luckily I experienced the better times (pre PL).

Mid 60's - mid 70's were the best.

Complete nonsense now. I'll always love and support The Foxes, and don't care a toss about them being in the poxy PL!!!!

 

[J. James]

On 06/03/2024 at 21:15, Lineker's Left Foot said:

Football has been destroyed and sold

its soul to the devil.

Totally agree, in the next couple of years the prem will be owned by either Americans who know the price of everything and the value of nothing and see fair competition as a hindrance to "entertainment" (see Formula 1) , or even worse, Saudis who have absolutely no concept of the culture and traditions of other countries and even less respect for sportsmanship and honesty ( see Formula 1 and state ordered murder).

 

Personally l have very mixed feelings about possibly being cannon fodder in the corrupt prem again.

[Foxin_Mad]

16 hours ago, Corky said:

It was introduced in 2013.

I dont think it particularly been enforced until recently as far as I am aware. 

 

The whole thing is a sack of crap regardless, it needs to get in the bin. Its not improving the game, I have no issue with things that improve the game but this is having the exact opposite, its the noose around the neck of ever club except the rich six. 

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I dont think it particularly been enforced until recently as far as I am aware. 

 

The whole thing is a sack of crap regardless, it needs to get in the bin. Its not improving the game, I have no issue with things that improve the game but this is having the exact opposite, its the noose around the neck of ever club except the rich six. 

Was literally enforced the season we got promoted from the Championship to the PL hence the fine we received 

[Foxin_Mad]

Just now, CosbehFox said:

Was literally enforced the season we got promoted from the Championship to the PL hence the fine we received 

I mean I dont really care, either way its shit! Just seems strange how none in the Premier League has fallen foul of it until now though, something has changed. The way they are talking it could be 6 clubs with deductions next year. Its practically unsustainable for  championship clubs to spend money on promotion and not break the stupid idiotic big six protectionist rules, hence why you get 3 teams going down and 3 teams coming up (except the anomalities Luton and Ipswich fighting against the odds who will probably be punished for something) . Due to the differing rules in EFP and Premier League and the huge disparity in TV revenue, obviously the relegated clubs will also have a bigger turnover than the championship during the parachute period too. Its an absolute cluster**** of a shambles. If this crap is dead theres literally nothing worth watching in football. I couldnt care less about the Manchester derby or whatever the media will be jizzing off about this week, Its been dying for a long time and for me if this continues its the final nail in removing any possibility of compteting and dreaming. Whats the point of going? 

 

Its funny how it takes them years to 'investigate' Man City, Chelsea and co but the challengers they are all over like a rash. 

 

Its probably the dumbest, most poorly thought out crap set of rules anyone has ever introduced. 

[Chelmofox]

44 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

The elephant in the room is the wages that players earn. It is not sustainable. 

But it exists, and has done for a while, so us on our own cannot simply change it. I hate explaining to my boy the wages these guys earn, and we are by no means the worst when it comes to wages.  Of course, the huge issue is wages being locked into contracts and not having any bearing on performance. Made worse again by the modern trend of signing longer contracts to try and amortise transfer fees.

 

I don't have a solution, just pointing out that this is an industry problem and they key point that will screw a number of clubs.

[urban fox]

2 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

But it exists, and has done for a while, so us on our own cannot simply change it. I hate explaining to my boy the wages these guys earn, and we are by no means the worst when it comes to wages.  Of course, the huge issue is wages being locked into contracts and not having any bearing on performance. Made worse again by the modern trend of signing longer contracts to try and amortise transfer fees.

 

I don't have a solution, just pointing out that this is an industry problem and they key point that will screw a number of clubs.

Exactly. In the PL, you have to pay the wages to try and attract decent players and compete. If it goes pear shaped like it did for us and you get relegated, you are screwed.

either you have to have a fire sale to get the high earners off the books, thereby making a book loss on those players transfer fees or, you are stuck with a high wage bill, even after relegation clauses, with massively reduced tv and sponsorship income. Either way you are almost bound to breach the lower threshold for elf, and even if you get promoted at the first go, those book losses on sales will bite you in the bum under pl rules.

the only way I can see this being resolved is for an amnesty to be declared and a full reset of the rules

[Always Next Year]

Football in this country is a complete shambles from top to bottom, yet again punish the smaller clubs while the so called big 6 can do what they want, my answer to all of this is fcuk them off to there super league that they want so much along with players who want to transfer to such clubs and ban them from all English competitions and let the rest of us get on with our game.

[orangecity23]

21 minutes ago, Always Next Year said:

Football in this country is a complete shambles from top to bottom, yet again punish the smaller clubs while the so called big 6 can do what they want, my answer to all of this is fcuk them off to there super league that they want so much along with players who want to transfer to such clubs and ban them from all English competitions and let the rest of us get on with our game.

Bang on. At the time it was happening, I thought it would have been fun if the Prem and EFL, who are always so keen to defend their video footage from copyright infringement, would apply the same rigour to the big 6 breakaway teams. Kick them out, strip them of every trophy they ever won and award them to the next best non evil club in that competition for the entire history of football. Then ban the big 6 from ever using a single second of match footage, or an image of any trophy, as it is featuring the intellectual property of the football league.

 

Makes it harder to be a big 6 glory hunting fan and promote their clubs on that when you can't reference the glory or show any images of it.

[Koke]

Martin Samuel saus on the Times podcast a while ago that basically it should be a free for all. If billionaires want to buy clubs and bank roll them then do be it. This us capitalism, in a uber capitalistic society. Nobody tells Amazon or Tesla how to run their business (besides their shareholders). I know football clubs are not just like any other business but at the end of the day yes Leicester City is a business and is treated as such by HMRC. 

 

I understand the regulations came in to protect clubs from themselves and I know Portsmouth and Leeds exist, but yeah, it's such a boring topic. 

 

I'm emotionally detached from football anyway. I watch City a lot but I just turned 40 last week and I'm only here to be entertained. 

 

On a sidenote, Champions League isn't what it used to be. Maybe because the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar,  Suarez etc have left the competition. I watched Bayern v Lazio the other day and it didn't have the same feel to it.