General News

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Thefox81 said:

Hopefully one of the prison guards 'accidently' leaves the door unlocked to their no doubt secure units. Prison can be a dangerous place. 🤞🤞🤞

And even if they don't, I'm pretty sure no guard system can be perfect all the time. And I'd bet it would only have to fail once.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Royal Mails being flogged then? Be interesting if we ever get a leader than doesn’t just continue the asset stripping of our country 

[Zear0]

20 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And even if they don't, I'm pretty sure no guard system can be perfect all the time. And I'd bet it would only have to fail once.

And to elaborate on my earlier rather flippant post, can you guarantee the same for the assisted dying you've advocated (I think) on here?

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

And to elaborate on my earlier rather flippant post, can you guarantee the same for the assisted dying you've advocated (I think) on here?

Same applies tbh. I think the idea in principle is sound, but in practice...

 

... which is why I said when the topic of the vote for it came up I said that I would most likely abstain.

[Nalis]

Vennells is a nasty piece of work isn't she? Says she's not pointing the finger as her team and then proceeds to do just that and is only sorry she's in the shit.

[davieG]

1 hour ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Royal Mails being flogged then? Be interesting if we ever get a leader than doesn’t just continue the asset stripping of our country 

It was sold and asset stripped a long while ago.

[Torquay Gunner]

45 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Pardon the lack of clarity.

 

I was making a point that dividing cases along the lines of degree of brutality in order to classify them as worthy of a death sentence as you advocate here (correct me if I'm wrong) would, in order to function, require perfect standard of proof and perfect attribution between that and a "lesser" instance on every single occasion.

 

Some of the cases I list above may easily have satisfied the requirements you state at the time of their deliverance. And though the ability to source proof has improved massively, the whole process remains irrevocably human, and therefore imperfect.

 

Can it be truly, honestly guaranteed that if the system you wish to implement is implemented, there will not be a mistake at some point in time, as humans almost inevitably do?

 

To state again, I'm not actually against the idea selectively on the grounds that you state here on principle - I just feel, with good reason I think - that it would in practice inevitably at some point go wrong and an innocent person would pay the ultimate price for it. Whether someone thinks that is an acceptable cost is up to them. I do not.

Para 2, you are correct.  I am stating that out of a sadly growing number of cases over the last 20 years or so, where children have been tortured and murdered( and lets face it most by their so called parents) I cannot think of one miscarriage of justice.  Of course I am not saying it could never happen and I take your point that one mistake would be one too many.  The courts could only sentence the death penalty in certain cases and where proof of guilt was incontrovertible.  A mandatory appeal should result in the High Court ratifying or striking out that sentencing decision. 

[Izzy]

55 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Vennells is a nasty piece of work isn't she? Says she's not pointing the finger as her team and then proceeds to do just that and is only sorry she's in the shit.

She was my bosses, bosses, boss, back in the day. Met her once around 1992, face like a smacked arse. She lasted a few months then fvcked off somewhere else. 
She didn’t exactly leave a good impression even back then. I don’t find her at all genuine at this enquiry. 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1kez8d2dygo

 

Trumpism, in all its self interested, future-disregarding (except for their own small clique), aggrandising glory, looking for a further foothold in the UK.

[Daggers]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1kez8d2dygo

 

Trumpism, in all its self interested, future-disregarding (except for their own small clique), aggrandising glory, looking for a further foothold in the UK.

Trouble is the door is already swinging wide open for this kind of thing, even down to the little stuff like accepting corporate tickets to matches and gigs.

 

Even if legislation is passed to restrict party donations, they'll just do it via the back door like they did with the Brexit campaign.  :/

[bovril]

As a commonwealth citizen Musk can vote in UK elections no? Which is a pretty stupid law imo but it seems quite paradoxical that he can vote but he's not allowed to donate. 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Trouble is the door is already swinging wide open for this kind of thing, even down to the little stuff like accepting corporate tickets to matches and gigs.

 

Even if legislation is passed to restrict party donations, they'll just do it via the back door like they did with the Brexit campaign.  :/

This is entirely possible.

 

I guess we'll find out soon enough. Interesting times.

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

As a commonwealth citizen Musk can vote in UK elections no? Which is a pretty stupid law imo but it seems quite paradoxical that he can vote but he's not allowed to donate. 

He would have to be resident.

 

Which, since he doesn't own a home (true story), means he can't.

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, bovril said:

As a commonwealth citizen Musk can vote in UK elections no? Which is a pretty stupid law imo but it seems quite paradoxical that he can vote but he's not allowed to donate. 

I'm sure he's allowed to donate in some fashion.

 

I'm also sure he's not allowed to donate in the manner he would like in the same way anyone else is not allowed because political donation laws forbid it.

Edited 17 December 2024 by leicsmac

[bovril]

Just now, Trav Le Bleu said:

He would have to be resident.

 

Which, since he doesn't own a home (true story), means he can't.

Ah ok. Can't imagine it'd be that difficult for him though. 

[reporterpenguin]

29 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1kez8d2dygo

 

Trumpism, in all its self interested, future-disregarding (except for their own small clique), aggrandising glory, looking for a further foothold in the UK.

Well why shouldn't he, some Labour activists went over to campaign for the Democrat's don't you know. Therefore this is totally comparable and fair game /s

[st albans fox]

Unsurprisingly (though you sometimes worry about some European countries re rape),  all the defendants are guilty of rape of Giselle pelicot. An extraordinary and very grim case. in a small town of around 8000, fifty men being sent to prison for notable periods is going to be significant.  The pelicot family have been decimated (although gisele seems to be quite an amazing woman). Fifty other families are going to be sig affected too (though nothing comparable). 
 

is there any precedent for a small town like this to be affected by something of this magnitude numerically ?   Surely the town will be stigmatised by this forever ?

Edited 19 December 2024 by st albans fox

[Facecloth]

18 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Unsurprisingly (though you sometimes worry about some European countries re rape),  all the defendants are guilty of rape of Dominique pelicot. An extraordinary and very grim case. in a small town of around 8000, fifty men being sent to prison for notable periods is going to be significant.  The pelicot family have been decimated (although Dominique seems to be quite an amazing woman). Fifty other families are going to be sig affected too (though nothing comparable). 
 

is there any precedent for a small town like this to be affected by something of this magnitude numerically ?   Surely the town will be stigmatised by this forever ?

Dominique is the rapist, the wife is called Gisele.

[SecretPro]

32 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Unsurprisingly (though you sometimes worry about some European countries re rape),  all the defendants are guilty of rape of Dominique pelicot. An extraordinary and very grim case. in a small town of around 8000, fifty men being sent to prison for notable periods is going to be significant.  The pelicot family have been decimated (although Dominique seems to be quite an amazing woman). Fifty other families are going to be sig affected too (though nothing comparable). 
 

is there any precedent for a small town like this to be affected by something of this magnitude numerically ?   Surely the town will be stigmatised by this forever ?

I find it worrying that in such a small population there is such a high percentage of deviant men willing to commit rape. If we extrapolate this to everywhere else, it probably says quite a lot about the male condition.

[st albans fox]

34 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Dominique is the rapist, the wife is called Gisele.

Yeah - brain out of gear !

 

20 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

I find it worrying that in such a small population there is such a high percentage of deviant men willing to commit rape. If we extrapolate this to everywhere else, it probably says quite a lot about the male condition.

it’s horrendous to think about it in these terms. 

[FOXYTALK]

2 hours ago, SecretPro said:

I find it worrying that in such a small population there is such a high percentage of deviant men willing to commit rape. If we extrapolate this to everywhere else, it probably says quite a lot about the male condition.

Irony is they will be the targets in prison 😑

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, SecretPro said:

I find it worrying that in such a small population there is such a high percentage of deviant men willing to commit rape. If we extrapolate this to everywhere else, it probably says quite a lot about the male condition.

 

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

 

 

it’s horrendous to think about it in these terms. 

It is horrendous when one considers the number of such incidents that go unconvicted and uncharged, let alone the likely numbers of those that go unreported because the victim might feel shamed or that the justice system won't give them justice.

 

It's a terrible price to pay for the sake of keeping the number of convicted innocents as low as possible.

[SecretPro]

3 hours ago, SecretPro said:

I find it worrying that in such a small population there is such a high percentage of deviant men willing to commit rape. If we extrapolate this to everywhere else, it probably says quite a lot about the male condition.

Following on from the above, apparently there are another 30 men who were in the video's and haven't been traced, so as a bare minimum you are looking at 80 men from a population of 8000 people, or 80 men in a population of 4000 men (2%), which is a horrifying number and this is just one case with a very open victim willing to engage with the system, factor in all the unreported, the not prosecuted etc and it really must be a staggering number of men persistently on the prowl to commit sexual violence.

Edited 19 December 2024 by SecretPro

[Innovindil]

40 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's a terrible price to pay for the sake of keeping the number of convicted innocents as low as possible.

It is. But anyone on the receiving end of a false allegation will unlikely feel differently. 

 

Currently have a family member due in court over something like this. Was supposed to be settled July 2024, after the "investigation" took 18 months. Now delayed til at least August 2025. All while they are holding £10k til he is proven innocent. A ridiculous situation to be in. 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

It is. But anyone on the receiving end of a false allegation will unlikely feel differently. 

 

Currently have a family member due in court over something like this. Was supposed to be settled July 2024, after the "investigation" took 18 months. Now delayed til at least August 2025. All while they are holding £10k til he is proven innocent. A ridiculous situation to be in. 

I agree with you.

 

I've said all along that it's better for a thousand guilty men to remain unconvicted rather than one innocent man be found guilty, and that either applies in all areas, or none.

 

It's just the hope that the justice system can continue to develop and obtain more convictions for horrible crimes like these ones and so more victims can get the justice they deserve, while remaining true to the above principle.