helicopter crash inquest

[5waller5]

Top is a human being still very much going through an awful situation.

Let’s remember this and try to keep our dissatisfaction in other threads respectful and dignified. 

[StevieH]

So called supporters who have told Top to sell up and given him grief should be ashamed of themselves. What the family has done for LCFC and the city as a whole has been nothing short of brilliant. He deserves better. Clubs like Leicester have their ups and downs that's the nature of football. I have lost both my parents and no one knows how it feels to lose a parent until it happens to you, let alone in those awful circumstances.

[Bilo]

That sounds a lot like the family will have a case to sue the manufacturer. 

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, StevieH said:

So called supporters who have told Top to sell up and given him grief should be ashamed of themselves. What the family has done for LCFC and the city as a whole has been nothing short of brilliant. He deserves better. Clubs like Leicester have their ups and downs that's the nature of football. I have lost both my parents and no one knows how it feels to lose a parent until it happens to you, let alone in those awful circumstances.

There are separate issues at hand here. 

 

I don't think anyone denies what the family have done for the club and city. 

 

And I don't think anyone is envious of his position of losing his father in such awful circumstances. 

 

But he can be held to account, like any owner, for how the club has been run. Both by him and his staff. 

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

There are separate issues at hand here. 

 

I don't think anyone denies what the family have done for the club and city. 

 

And I don't think anyone is envious of his position of losing his father in such awful circumstances. 

 

But he can be held to account, like any owner, for how the club has been run. Both by him and his staff. 

Critical sensible thinking required clearly 

[StevieH]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

There are separate issues at hand here. 

 

I don't think anyone denies what the family have done for the club and city. 

 

And I don't think anyone is envious of his position of losing his father in such awful circumstances. 

 

But he can be held to account, like any owner, for how the club has been run. Both by him and his staff. 

Would you write of £140m of debt? We are Leicester City not Man City. People make mistakes. I'm sure you have.

[CosbehFox]

Just now, StevieH said:

Would you write of £140m of debt? We are Leicester City not Man City. People make mistakes. I'm sure you have.

If it was requiring of the rules of the league you play in…..

[Lako42]

9 minutes ago, StevieH said:

Would you write of £140m of debt? We are Leicester City not Man City. People make mistakes. I'm sure you have.

Go to a different thread with this 

[lanefox]

It's a hard read especially the bit about them being still alive after the crash 

[Robo61]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

There are separate issues at hand here. 

 

I don't think anyone denies what the family have done for the club and city. 

 

And I don't think anyone is envious of his position of losing his father in such awful circumstances. 

 

But he can be held to account, like any owner, for how the club has been run. Both by him and his staff. 

I like most on here have no problem with the issues being discussed,  but also feel that language used is completely over the top.  Even such terms as "held to account" make it sound like you believe that club officials have deliberately got us to this place. I simpy do not understand the personal anger directed at staff  who were pivotal in us winning the league.

[JayTheFox]

15 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

I like most on here have no problem with the issues being discussed,  but also feel that language used is completely over the top.  Even such terms as "held to account" make it sound like you believe that club officials have deliberately got us to this place. I simpy do not understand the personal anger directed at staff  who were pivotal in us winning the league.

This is the wrong way of looking at it unfortunately, if I myself provided some form of exceptional work professionally within my job for a sustained period which lead to some form of amazing achievement should I then just be allowed to consistently under perform for the rest of my career? Of course not and therefore the same applies to the staff and players at Leicester City.

 

If anything to just accept mediocrity without challenge would be an insult to Vichai’s memory.

[Daggers]

Stay classy, foxes.

[Danizen]

2 hours ago, ourla said:

Hard to say it was accident given "can be traced back to fundamental design errors and the failure to mitigate known risks."

The second part of that is the textbook definition of negligence. 

[Zear0]

Just now, Danizen said:

The second part of that is the textbook definition of negligence. 

No it isn't. There are risks in everything you do in life. Designers, regulators and operators contribute to the safety case to ensure all risks are adequately mitigated against, not eliminated. 

[StanSP]

32 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

I like most on here have no problem with the issues being discussed,  but also feel that language used is completely over the top.  Even such terms as "held to account" make it sound like you believe that club officials have deliberately got us to this place. I simpy do not understand the personal anger directed at staff  who were pivotal in us winning the league.

Being held to account does not equate to thinking they've deliberately got us into this mess. 

 

Again, no qualms with how they helped us get to be successful. 

 

But if they want to regain that reputation, they can't just take the acclaim when things go well and then escape criticism and accountability when things get bad. A sign of a good leader is accountability and integrity. Something they have been lacking recently. 

[UniFox21]

32 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

I like most on here have no problem with the issues being discussed,  but also feel that language used is completely over the top.  Even such terms as "held to account" make it sound like you believe that club officials have deliberately got us to this place. I simpy do not understand the personal anger directed at staff  who were pivotal in us winning the league.

? 

If you or your team make a mess of a work situation, you're held accountable for the mistake, yes? 

This is the exact same, the "Director of Football" should be held accountable when the footballing matters that fall under his remit are not to standard? 

 

The entire fan base stands in support of Top when it comes to Vichai, the crash, what the family have done for the club. Yet you can do all that, and still want the directors etc to be held accountable for the failings in the present. 

 

I struggle to understand how people can't separate these issues between our anger at how the football club is being ran and our sadness and support around a tragic event

[urban fox]

1 minute ago, Zear0 said:

No it isn't. There are risks in everything you do in life. Designers, regulators and operators contribute to the safety case to ensure all risks are adequately mitigated against, not eliminated. 

It's close

 The tort of negligence requires three tests.

1. A duty of care was owed

2. The duty of care was breached.

3. Harm was caused as a direct result of the breach of the duty of care.

In this case, any damages would hinge on proving 2. If indeed there were "fundamental design errors and a failure to mitigate known risks", then there is certainly a case that there was indeed a breach of the duty of care owed to ensure that their product was safe by design and construction when used in the proper manner. The latter is not in doubt as the pilots were fully qualified and, exonerated by the enquiry.

As for 1 and 3, there is no debate.

[ramboacdc]

1 hour ago, Bilo said:

That sounds a lot like the family will have a case to sue the manufacturer. 

They have a suit against the manufacturer for something like £2bn in lost revenue. 

 

What other than an accident could this have been put down to? The designers have been proven they knew of issues, but what could their deaths been ruled as instead?

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, StevieH said:

Would you write of £140m of debt? We are Leicester City not Man City. People make mistakes. I'm sure you have.

They were largely debt incurred due to their own mismanagement in fairness and probably a very good business reason for doing it.

[Clever Fox]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

There are separate issues at hand here. 

 

I don't think anyone denies what the family have done for the club and city. 

 

And I don't think anyone is envious of his position of losing his father in such awful circumstances. 

 

But he can be held to account, like any owner, for how the club has been run. Both by him and his staff. 

By who, He and kp owns the Club. The only one that can hold him accountable are the Shareholders.

[StanSP]

13 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

By who, He and kp owns the Club. The only one that can hold him accountable are the Shareholders.

It's our club, not his. 

 

We can hold him accountable as much as we want. 

[Nalis]

Glad this failed, felt a bit distasteful. Dossnt help the grieving process at all, let them rest in peace

[gerblod]

3 hours ago, StanSP said:

That's what I don't understand either. 

If these faults were identified in 2013, who failed to rectify them? I'm sure Vichai wouldn't have flown in an aircraft that was potentially dangerous and that begs the question as to who kept this quiet. All very well suing the makers (for £2.15bn!) but which company owned the helicopter. Or was it built and leased by Leonardo SpA?

The family 's lawyers are claiming there were "fundamental design errors" but has this been backed up by aeronautic accident investigators? Real failings of judgment/negligence are indicated here.

[Clever Fox]

18 minutes ago, StanSP said:

It's our club, not his. 

 

We can hold him accountable as much as we want. 

You are deluded. No Court would support that view.

[StanSP]

3 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

You are deluded. No Court would support that view.

When's a court getting involved? Wtf