Managerial replacements

[Foxmeister]

52 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

Definitely. Our downturn began last season.

We were flat track bullies until Xmas and mid-table form saw us limp over the line. Most half decent managers would have achieved what Enzo did. 

[splinterdream]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

Needed to try something new, maybe two up top, maybe flooding midfield more, I think after continued failures with the same or similar tactics, it warranted try something else.

Lets me be clear though, he really has not been helped by the club (assumed) or by the players (evidentially).

I think he tried experience and discipline over flair and ill discipline, he tried to drill those players to just get something to build on in terms of confidence, organisation and consistency, but was let down and did get it wrong, but he did go 4-4-2 when we went behind, and it got worse, arsenals 1st goal was because he didn’t lay it off the VK, lost the ball and we got hit. 
I don’t think any of our squad would get us the results to survive, we needed signing in Jan.

i bet RVN totally changes it against West Ham and we’ll still get ‘hammered’

[kingfox]

3 hours ago, Product of 84 said:

The only criteria should be to appoint a manager that has a playing style that can survive in the Premiership with the youth players we have. 

What is the perfect ingredient though to stay up nowadays? We have seen teams go the possession route and fail, unfortunately it seems our board are also keen on that type of philosophy. 
 

Just look at some of the teams that have stayed up in recent memory. Sheff Utd(That good season under Wilder), Fulham, Brentford, Bournemouth, Forest. You either have to get recruitment absolutely spot on, for instance the signing of Palhinha made a massive difference to Fulham, or you have to be horrible to play against and grit it out, Brentford did that perfectly well when they first came up and have built on it. 
 

Our squad though imo lacks that grit, we’re too nice to play against, while to top things off our recruitment has been shite. 
 

We need to be horrible to play against, I want to see a team that presses and plays with energy, but I just can’t see the board going for someone with that type of style. 
 

We’ll probably go down the possession heavy route again and just go back to being a yo-yo club. 

[Product of 84]

33 minutes ago, kingfox said:

What is the perfect ingredient though to stay up nowadays? We have seen teams go the possession route and fail, unfortunately it seems our board are also keen on that type of philosophy. 
 

Just look at some of the teams that have stayed up in recent memory. Sheff Utd(That good season under Wilder), Fulham, Brentford, Bournemouth, Forest. You either have to get recruitment absolutely spot on, for instance the signing of Palhinha made a massive difference to Fulham, or you have to be horrible to play against and grit it out, Brentford did that perfectly well when they first came up and have built on it. 
 

Our squad though imo lacks that grit, we’re too nice to play against, while to top things off our recruitment has been shite. 
 

We need to be horrible to play against, I want to see a team that presses and plays with energy, but I just can’t see the board going for someone with that type of style. 
 

We’ll probably go down the possession heavy route again and just go back to being a yo-yo club. 

I don't disagree. 

 

Although it you go down the grit it out route you need the players to do that. It isn't a tenable whole club philosophy either so it's hard to implement and it has implications. For instance, our current players clearly rebelled against Cooper who wanted us to grit it out. Recruitment with this philosophy can be challenging as well- look at how well we fans have taken to Cooper's signings. And like it or not if we want to keep our better youth players they want to be playing a style that gives them the opportunity to move onto their dream clubs.

 

Therefore, I don't see gritting it out as an option for our club. I also don't see any manager who has aspirations wanting to play anything but the modern chess like way. Again like it or not they have seen Kompany and Marasca move their careers on based on style alone.

 

We need a hybrid style. Something in-between. We need a manager that understands the modern chess style football and can develop their own system to play it and combate it. Not to try and emulate it. We need players who know when to play chess and when to roll their sleeves up and work hard. 

 

I simply don't think we can judge Ruud yet. He simply hasn't the personnel. That's not his fault. We need a philosophy with a clear strategy that permeates right through the club, from scouts to recruitment and through the youth teams. I'm hoping it's not going to take time to rebuild. I believe it was there but then Brendon messed up, then Maresca up and left and we appointed the polar opposite to those before in Cooper. 

 

That's also why we can't appoint Dyche. I understand he recognised himself that he couldn't move Everton on. 

[Rossiter]

Gareth Southgate anyone?

[Wink84]

6 hours ago, Verumex said:

For anyone thinking Dyche is the answer, compare Everton now, to them in the first half of the season. 

 

I know Moyes is a decent manager, but it's absolutely night and day what he's been doing with the same squad of players who were comparable to ours not so long ago. It's a damning condemnation on Dyche's ability as a manager. 

And yet THAT Everton is still miles ahead of the crap we see week in week out. How pathetic is that.

Edited 22 February by Wink84
Typo

[Wink84]

5 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Really don’t understand people turning their noses up at Dyche.

 

 

Were in no position to turn our noses up at anyone at this point. Not even thinking about Premier League. That's over for us this season.

[dannythefox]

Has to be Dyche, I never thought I’d ever say that. 

[kingfox]

11 minutes ago, Product of 84 said:

I don't disagree. 

 

Although it you go down the grit it out route you need the players to do that. It isn't a tenable whole club philosophy either so it's hard to implement and it has implications. For instance, our current players clearly rebelled against Cooper who wanted us to grit it out. Recruitment with this philosophy can be challenging as well- look at how well we fans have taken to Cooper's signings. And like it or not if we want to keep our better youth players they want to be playing a style that gives them the opportunity to move onto their dream clubs.

 

Therefore, I don't see gritting it out as an option for our club. I also don't see any manager who has aspirations wanting to play anything but the modern chess like way. Again like it or not they have seen Kompany and Marasca move their careers on based on style alone.

 

We need a hybrid style. Something in-between. We need a manager that understands the modern chess style football and can develop their own system to play it and combate it. Not to try and emulate it. We need players who know when to play chess and when to roll their sleeves up and work hard. 

 

I simply don't think we can judge Ruud yet. He simply hasn't the personnel. That's not his fault. We need a philosophy with a clear strategy that permeates right through the club, from scouts to recruitment and through the youth teams. I'm hoping it's not going to take time to rebuild. I believe it was there but then Brendon messed up, then Maresca up and left and we appointed the polar opposite to those before in Cooper. 

 

That's also why we can't appoint Dyche. I understand he recognised himself that he couldn't move Everton on. 

You can also say you need the right players to play a possession heavy style in the Prem. We built the first foundation on that last season, but we messed it all up by appointing a manager who wanted to deviate away from it. Is a possession heavy style sustainable for a newly promoted club though, recent history suggests that it might not be. 
 

You can either go down the possession route, counter pressing route or the defensive grit it out route. Recent history suggests that you need some grit about you, if you want to stay in the Premier League as a newly promoted team. 
 

I’d happily take a hybrid style, but do we have the players who can roll their sleeves up and give us that bit of grit, we definitely aren’t seeing that right now. 
 

Is RVN even that guy in a managerial sense, he may not have the right personnel, but all I see is a manager who is just adamant with one formation, with a style that I thought concentrated on fast progressive football, to what is looking like a confusing mess, very much like Cooper. 
 

I don’t want a Dyche type either, especially not long term, but what type of manager possesses the best solution for us. 
 

Personally give me an Iraola type over a possession heavy or park the bus type manager any day. 

[BenTheFox]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Needed to try something new, maybe two up top, maybe flooding midfield more, I think after continued failures with the same or similar tactics, it warranted try something else.

Lets me be clear though, he really has not been helped by the club (assumed) or by the players (evidentially).

He certainly hasn't been helped by the club. I don't believe that he took the job under the impression that they would only sign a right back for £3 million in January. 

[Dan]

I want someone like Dennis Wise on a 3 month deal. I cannot stand the idea of inflicting this disgusting mess on good people who've done the club well (Pearson, King etc...) so lets stick it on someone despicable and watch the house fire burn them with it. Lets at least channel this properly.

[desertfox2]

Giving big Sam a call might not be the worst idea. We need someone experienced to come in and sort the club out and cut out all of the nonsense. We also need someone to sort out our recruitment. The last thing we need is an ex player like Gerrard who only gets a job because they were decent players. RVN is in way over his head as it is. We need someone who knows what they are doing as the club seems clueless at the moment from top to bottom. I thought we should have gone for Moyes instead of Cooper for similar reasons but we missed that boat. He could at least get it running like a football club again whilst we plan for a younger replacement when he retires again. 

[Winstonthedog]

8 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

He certainly hasn't been helped by the club. I don't believe that he took the job under the impression that they would only sign a right back for £3 million in January. 

Totally agree ... the talk about lots of clubs being interested in RVN was utter crap and we were the only ones who spoke to him  ... or he was in full possession of all the facts and there is a very different agenda to the one the club are portraying to the fans and he took the job because no other offers were on the table ... either way there's a lot of fibbing going on somewhere

[ClaphamFox]

9 hours ago, dannythefox said:

Has to be Dyche, I never thought I’d ever say that. 

Trust your previous judgment - you were right before! No matter what our situation is, Dyche is not, and never will be, the answer.

[Silebyfox_89]

Urs Fisher please.

 

Experience at coaching at all levels.

Plays my preferred formation 3-5-2.

Won things.

Previous role at Union Berlin admired by most football fans.

[Corky]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

Trust your previous judgment - you were right before! No matter what our situation is, Dyche is not, and never will be, the answer.

Our players would never take to his methods.

 

We need a clearout and attitude change as much as a new manager.

[Happy Fox]

1 minute ago, Corky said:

Our players would never take to his methods.

 

We need a clearout and attitude change as much as a new manager.

Who do these prime donnas want then as a new manager? Enzo Maresca?  what will it take for them to wake the f**k up and have some personal pride in their own performances  regardless of the manager?

[CosbehFox]

You can’t cite a lack of strategy and long term planning at the club, then back Dyche for the job. We’d be in the same cycle of no alignment. 
 

Press the reset now, give someone like Rohl three months to suss this squad out like it’s a pre season. 
 

Although I’m 80% certain it will end up Russell Martin 

[The Doctor]

21 hours ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

A Dyche-led team would be grim and horrible to watch, but also grim and horrible to play against, and that's what we need more than anything right now. We can worry about the fancy stuff later. I'm just fed up of seeing teams practically walk right through us with no resistance.

did you not see Dyches everton this season, teams would continue to walk through us with no resistance under that worm eating twat.

[Lesta Legend]

1 minute ago, CosbehFox said:

You can’t cite a lack of strategy and long term planning at the club, then back Dyche for the job. We’d be in the same cycle of no alignment. 
 

Press the reset now, give someone like Rohl three months to suss this squad out like it’s a pre season. 
 

Although I’m 80% certain it will end up Russell Martin 

I’m not sure I trust the club. 
 

The options of good managers listed in this thread I assume won’t be on any list held by a poorly advised Top. And the organisational changes required from top to bottom to ensure we have a structure at all levels playing and non playing just won’t happen. If the club had plans to do that they’d be making those changes now (not sacking Ruud just yet) and not half way through pre season. They may eventually be forced to think outside the box when we struggle in the championship. A change in manager is one thing. 

[Iwebema]

11 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Although I’m 80% certain it will end up Russell Martin

Agreed.

 

Cheap, available, interested, heard of him, requires minimal effort, dont need to go scouting, will charm the pants off of them because he talks a good game, plays the football Top is obsessed with, has a promotion to his name.

 

Maybe the club will surprise us and take it all a bit more seriously, but it couldn't be more obvious to me what they will do.

[CosbehFox]

3 minutes ago, Lesta Legend said:

I’m not sure I trust the club. 
 

The options of good managers listed in this thread I assume won’t be on any list held by a poorly advised Top. And the organisational changes required from top to bottom to ensure we have a structure at all levels playing and non playing just won’t happen. If the club had plans to do that they’d be making those changes now (not sacking Ruud just yet) and not half way through pre season. They may eventually be forced to think outside the box when we struggle in the championship. A change in manager is one thing. 

Agreed. They will go with Martin on some brain fart idea of possession football 

[Gazza M]

I think we may only be able to afford someone already employed by the club so all pointing towards BBM with Andy King for rest of season. A bit like when Bassett stepped down at let Micky Adams see the last few games out. 

[UniFox21]

21 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Agreed. They will go with Martin on some brain fart idea of possession football 

You'd hope they'd see the success of returning to fast attacking and go towards that, but no doubt we go for Martin

[pkonline]

Our next manager needs to be one that stabalises us and gets us promoted next season. No point having a short term one.

 

If Enzo gets sacked by Chelsea, would you have him back?

If Corberán leaves Valencia if they get relegated, would you have him?