Expectation and entitlement.

[Kopic]

[The Year Of The Fox]

15 minutes ago, MancFox24 said:

Not sure anyone is saying you should look at a single point in history and assume that's where a club should be. I don't think a club like ours should consistently be as low down as league one, in the same way it shouldn't be consistently challenging for top 6. But we've done both of those things in recent history. I wouldn't be using  Man City as an example anyway cus they've essentially cheated the system to get to where they are now

Whether they’ve cheated or not is irrelevant.

 

By whatever means they’ve now got a world class stadium, world class training facilities, money coming out of their ears and a world class manager. 
 

They would definitely not be OK dropping down a league or two because that’s where they once were. 
 

Same with Huddersfield. Nobody thinks they should be among the Top 6 in the country now, because they won 3 top flight titles 70 years ago

 

 

Times change 

 

Edited 19 April by The Year Of The Fox

[Bert]

3 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

Who should we compare to then? Preston, Cardiff, Rotherham and Hull?

 

It sounds like you are saying we shouldn’t expect to be able to take the field and compete with the likes of Brentford, Bournemouth and Palace. We should just accept that if we place these sides it is an easy 3-0/4-0 win for them?

With all due respect to these clubs, with where we were we should be ahead of these if things were managed properly, which starts with the board going away from their model of letting the manager simply take control of the team rather than other things that a certain manager had no right to do.

 

Yet here we are, having shipped 9 goals against Brentford in 2 games this season, we’ve scored 11 goals in 15 games at home. It’s a massive decline and anyone  who accepts that because of “we’ve won the league” or any other nonsense, needs their head looking at. 
 

You look at the elite mentality of Kasper, he didn’t want to just win one, it made him hungry for more. Yet a group of people that support this club are letting blind loyalty cloud what’s happening because of past success. 

[Kitchandro]

We haven’t scored at home this year. We are entitled to see one goal in 4 months.

[trooky]

2 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Yeah no worries, realistic expectations were as follows: 

 

- Club to learn some lessons regarding recruitment, not to put players on their decline on their best ever contracts (Reid and Ajew for example)

- Club to build on the playing style of Enzo, seeing as the squad was set up to play that way.

- Club to learn lessons from how Enzo built a relationship with a decent chunk of the fanbase, to hopefully bring the players a bit closer to the fans again

- Owner to be present and provide at least some transparency and to communicate some kind of plan moving forward.

- Club to utilise some of the youth pipeline that we spent 100m on a training ground to produce.

- Players to fight for the club and the city they represent.

- Not to employ our worst manager in 140 years.

- Not to go on our worst run in our history at home for 140 years.

- Not to turn in our lowest ever points total in 140 years.

- Not to be relegated at Easter.

 

I don't think any of those you could realistically class as "entitled", unless you're totally deluded or a Notts Forest fan in disguise.

 

Everyone new this season was going to be difficult and we'd most likely be in the mix to go down again, but it's the manner that it's happened that has ****ed people off.

 

Hope that helps, let me know if you need it breaking down any further 👍🏼

And what's more we've wasted the victory over the PL avoiding a points deduction only to post a pathetic total and being relegated this weekend. 

 

What will happen once we're in the Championship. Over the summer, will we have a transfer embargo and uncertainty with an impending points deduction?

 

In this scenario I can see the club sticking with Ruud. 

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, phoneticerror said:

Yet you feel the need to reply. Get back in your box.

Ooooooooooooooooooooo

[murphy]

I think it is the very fact that we have traditionally been a yo-yo club that is the cause of such anger and frustration.  We had a once in a life time chance to cement ourselves as a top ten Premier League club and blew it through sheer incompetence.  

 

To me it seems a very strange position indeed to use our modest history as a reason that we should just accept such mismanagement as a mere readjustment back to the status quo.

 

 

[Finnegan]

5 hours ago, João Miguel da Cunha said:

Admittedly I’m too young to remember the Peter Taylor era, administration and subsequent Football League horror stuff with Holloway & Martin Allen et al but surely the club is an absolute million miles away from ever being in such situations again? 
 

 

 

Entitlement would be us having the budget of Burton Albion and getting upset at not being a Premier League team. 

 

The club having ungodly amounts of money to spend, money that's partly ours, by the way, that we've paid in through high ticket prices, food prices, merch prices, etc. Having that money and wasting it as badly as they have through terrible sporting business decisions and an out dated working model? 

 

That's legitimate cause for frustration. 

 

[SK3Blue]

Have experienced many lows supporting the club, Hamilton/Pleat era, Bassett, then Levein/Holloway… two things I take away from this, the first is that I always felt connected to the club and players during those periods, secondly, the players were paid a lot less, most were not in the same calibre as the current squad, but still tried their best. 
 

I do feel entitled to see players that at least show they want to be here, and I want the owner to show authority in dealing with those responsible for the shambolic managerial appointments, DOF decisions and how the club is run in general along with fan engagement. 
 

 

[orangecity23]

We've set a record for the worst home run in the history of the English football league structure. The PSR problems still aren't going away, and with no players sold in this set of accounts, plus a manager sacking and a load of extra money tosed onto the amortisation pile for Skipp, Okoli, Ayew, Fatawu and Bilal, coupled with the lower prize money for finishing 19th, we're probaby looking at another 70 million loss season again this year. So we'll be hamstrung by PSR again next year, with less assets to sell, and again the 2 seasons after that. The club is locking itself into a doom loop, with no signs of being able to break out of it any time soon. Down in the championship, based on last years account we basically see our turnover down by 60%. There is very, very little to look forward to in the upcoming seasons, if we miss out on promotion we could be looking at another lost decade like the worst period in the clubs history which lead to relegation to league 1. Better not say anything though, that would be entitled. Question - will people still be saying "we used to be in League One" when we are actually back in League One again?

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

If Villa in 5 years time are where we are I think outsiders would have a different view. It’s got little to do with the size of the club or our place in the natural order of things, it’s about the mismanagement and not being able to build on this period of success we’ve had. I would have had no issue if we had made competent decisions and used our success to be a mid table PL side, but we’ve collapsed in such a short period of time - 3 years ago playing in a European Semi Final to now being relegated for the second time. This has happened because of hugely poor decisions, handing out big contracts to crap, spending too much and snookering us financially - how does anyone think that is remotely acceptable? How can it brushed off with “oh that’s just where Leicester belong…” - doing that means no one can be held accountable for it all.

 

Interesringly, I was chatting to a Sheffield Weds fan the other day who listened to me talk about some of this, and he said “it’s not that bad, and is it entitled?” No it’s not - I’m not entitled and think we have a god given right to be a top PL club. But I do think we have the right to think we should make AT LEAST competent decisions about recruitment, structure and personnel. 

Edited 20 April by Wasyls Pec Deck

[Dahnsouff]

Hubris,  coupled with end of a cycle, one we utterly failed to both anticipate and react to.

Dont think entitlement has anything to do with it, it’s the wrong word.

Our contribution to the club is small, tiny even, but we are fans (customers if you must) and if you pay for stuff, you expect a certain level in return, both upstairs and on the pitch.

[MancFox24]

54 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Whether they’ve cheated or not is irrelevant.

 

By whatever means they’ve now got a world class stadium, world class training facilities, money coming out of their ears and a world class manager. 
 

They would definitely not be OK dropping down a league or two because that’s where they once were. 
 

Same with Huddersfield. Nobody thinks they should be among the Top 6 in the country now, because they won 3 top flight titles 70 years ago

 

 

Times change 

 

It's not irrelevant at all. Without the funding from a nation state and abusing the financial rules, Man City aren't that much of a bigger club than us and would probably be a middling PL club at best. 

 

Times do indeed change, which means it's nigh on impossible for clubs like Huddersfield to achieve what they did previously. Football is now more than ever governed by money, and there are only so many oil rich Middle Eastern countries looking to invest in football clubs (not that I'd want us to be taken over by one anyway)

[LCFCJohn]

1 hour ago, Bert said:

With all due respect to these clubs, with where we were we should be ahead of these if things were managed properly, which starts with the board going away from their model of letting the manager simply take control of the team rather than other things that a certain manager had no right to do.

 

Yet here we are, having shipped 9 goals against Brentford in 2 games this season, we’ve scored 11 goals in 15 games at home. It’s a massive decline and anyone  who accepts that because of “we’ve won the league” or any other nonsense, needs their head looking at. 
 

You look at the elite mentality of Kasper, he didn’t want to just win one, it made him hungry for more. Yet a group of people that support this club are letting blind loyalty cloud what’s happening because of past success. 

Yeah I agree. The op wrote as though we shouldn’t be comparing success to them in that we have done better but the tone is very much that we should accept being relegated and failure hence asking who we should be compared to.

 

I hate the mentality that any kind of decline is acceptable because of the success or that expecting good decisions from the club is entitled. Of those of us angry at the club, how many are expecting European football and winning stuff regularly? I bet none.

 

Personally, I want a club that is on the same page, a manager and players who work hard, fight for the badge, youth players given a chance, not wasting money and blaming financial rules for our failings. And that is before the other off the field issues around fan engagement.

 

People thinking the bad feeling is due to simply on the pitch results are completely clueless.

[whetstonefox]

We’ve got 18 points from 32 games. I think we were entitled to expect little bit more

[Pliskin]

2 hours ago, Kitchandro said:

We haven’t scored at home this year. We are entitled to see one goal in 4 months.

Give your head a wobble! Top won the premier league, the FA cup and gives us free beer and cake! #vivakingpower!

[David Hankey]

No Club is "entitled" to anything. In any walk of life you have to work hard week in, week out and this team clearly haven't done this.

[squidsworth]

Nah, our despondency is nothing to do with entitlement or expectation. Rather a decline that has come about equally as fast as our rise did. You might be thinking we're back to where we were around 2010 but even that is looking at things half glass full. In our past we weren't saddled with some of the best payed players ever to be part of the club, performing at the top level in record breaking badness.

It's difficult to see where we go from here, it really is incompetence of the highest order and puts our club at the very brink of even being able to survive. If being better than that is expectancy or entitlement, so be it. But I expect a club being run well for the good of it's supporters, with players giving their all, above all else. And what we've amassed is a bunch of terribly average players, on the whole, who couldn't give a toss and happy to wind down their careers on a massive wage. 

On top of that, the leagues continue to hunt us down, whether it's premier or football league. Cos we represented a threat to their established order. 

Time to find a second a team, if you don't have one, as our future is very bleak (as might be football in general, but that's another story). The big boom is coming, I'm sure of it. Half of all fans think premier league football is boring, with the anti competitive nature only set to get worse, the future ain't looking bright.

[The boy Linacre]

9 hours ago, João Miguel da Cunha said:

Admittedly I’m too young to remember the Peter Taylor era, administration and subsequent Football League horror stuff with Holloway & Martin Allen et al but surely the club is an absolute million miles away from ever being in such situations again? 
 

 

We went 14, 1, 12, 9, 9, 5, 5, 8, 18 our second longest spell in the top flight I believe in our history.  So aside from the last season, most top half, plus 4-5 seasons in Europe & an FA Cup win & League Cup Semi.

No IF we were setting a bar or expectations, take the cup and Europe away (thats is being entitled, but nice to have).

Somewhere between 8th & 17th for at least another 5-10 seasons would have been a fair bar.  WITH the benefit of - a well off owner, initially very invested in the club, an amazing training facility, a recent history of success, a 30k+ ground.

If we compare ourselves to others:

Palace have been in the top flight since 14/15, TOP 10 TWICE (and that was 10)!!!!, 11th to 15th the rest, they aren't leaving anytime soon, anybody been to Selhurst Park!!!

Hammers have been in the top flight since 12/13, top 10 5 times, best 6th - 1 Trophy

 

I don't see any reason that we can't be in that group based on those 9 years.  That is the level we should be basing ourselves if it has gone somewhat badly.

As for Brighton, Bournemouth, Wolves and Brentford, C'mon.
It was all set up and they fell asleep on the job and sleptwalked into relegation in 23, and now are clueless and repeatedly reactive NOT proactive, now we're yoyo and its rock hard to get back and stay as this year proved.

[ceebeefox]

3 minutes ago, The boy Linacre said:

We went 14, 1, 12, 9, 9, 5, 5, 8, 18 our second longest spell in the top flight I believe in our history.  So aside from the last season, most top half, plus 4-5 seasons in Europe & an FA Cup win & League Cup Semi.

No IF we were setting a bar or expectations, take the cup and Europe away (thats is being entitled, but nice to have).

Somewhere between 8th & 17th for at least another 5-10 seasons would have been a fair bar.  WITH the benefit of - a well off owner, initially very invested in the club, an amazing training facility, a recent history of success, a 30k+ ground.

If we compare ourselves to others:

Palace have been in the top flight since 14/15, TOP 10 TWICE (and that was 10)!!!!, 11th to 15th the rest, they aren't leaving anytime soon, anybody been to Selhurst Park!!!

Hammers have been in the top flight since 12/13, top 10 5 times, best 6th - 1 Trophy

 

I don't see any reason that we can't be in that group based on those 9 years.  That is the level we should be basing ourselves if it has gone somewhat badly.

As for Brighton, Bournemouth, Wolves and Brentford, C'mon.
It was all set up and they fell asleep on the job and sleptwalked into relegation in 23, and now are clueless and repeatedly reactive NOT proactive, now we're yoyo and its rock hard to get back and stay as this year proved.

I agree with everything you’ve said there. But wouldn’t it be boring to be a fan of any of those mentioned? Stumbling along in a league making up the numbers, and if the last two seasons are to be the norm not even an exciting relegation escape to break the cycle. 

[Langston]

We are going down and breaking all kinds of records in the process.. The past is irrelevant.

[Phil Mitchell]

We expect to have a half ok season after a promotion buzz, but we are more than entitled to a side that on the pitch gives a ****. Phil

[sdb]

I believe we should be a competitive Premier league club. Life isn't always that straightforward, so I can accept being a competitive team outside the top division. What I can't accept is a team with no identity or positivity or direction, which happens to mirror the club as a whole.

 

We are currently an absolute abomination of a football club and to accept anything like what we're currently being served would be moronic. 

[dooflip]

The only thing I expect and feel entitled to is watching a team being competitive. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Being relegated on game week 37 or 38 by a few points would be gutting, but also acceptable in comparison to what we have been served this season. We would nurse our wounds, pick ourselves up and go again knowing we gave it a good go, and there would be a bit of positivity knowing that we nearly did what we set out to do. Instead, it’s just been fking embarrassing.

[Claudio Fannieri]

Just a thought but any else think the OP is a club stooge who has posted to gauge the feeling. Especially when you see they only joined the forum this month