Sean Dyche

[ClaphamFox]

5 minutes ago, Stadt said:

I've repeatedly said he wouldn't be my first choice (not even on a shortlist of 10) but of the usual myopic set of targets Rudkin and Top would draw up, he's the best of those. He's far more accomplished than Martin, Gerrard, O'Neil etc. His sides have pressed higher than he gets credit for, a key tenet of a Dyche side is working hard out of possession and there's situational counter pressing. He's more Simeone than Allardyce but obviously much less talented.

 

Again, as a clued up football fan I'm not advocating for him a priority but our board aren't landing progressive names from the continent, we operate like how an alcoholic pub bore would run a club.

 

His most recent signings at Everton were O'Brien (classic),  Ndiaye, Iroegbunam (PSR move?), Lindstrom on loan, then some other crap frees and loans - pretty solid business. Sub £50m spend and about £30m up overall.

Year before Beto (looks pretty good now, classic Dyche signing), Chermiti looks a bust, plus other crap frees and loans.

22/23 is quite Dyche-y but that was his first window.

 

He's signed enough decent players too all the while they've made net profits. Essentially we could do a lot worse it'd just require sensible signings that would work for both him and future managers but we can't do that, irrespective of the manager.

This is why appointing a new Director of Football is more important than the managerial appointment. We need a vision for the future that is not dependent on whoever happens to be our manager at a particular time. Only when we are clear about that vision should be be appointing the next manager. It probably won't happen like this, but it should.

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

This is why appointing a new Director of Football is more important than the managerial appointment. We need a vision for the future that is not dependent on whoever happens to be our manager at a particular time. Only when we are clear about that vision should be be appointing the next manager. It probably won't happen like this, but it should.

 

Appointing a proper director of football (which we should do) would make hiring Dyche make even less, practically zero, sense. 

 

He's very much "a manager", which I don't think we should be appointing anyway. 

 

[STEVIE B]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

I still can’t believe some are actually trying to argue that this would be a good move….. staggering. 

I don’t think many do think it’s a good move, it’s just where we are as a club.

Some still believe we can just select anyone we fancy.
We are a shambles & can no longer pick & choose, unfortunately. 
I no longer have any faith in our Board to go looking for a hidden gem of a Manager, they will take the easy option.
Dyche wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest.

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Think that’s my issue with a lot of these anti Dyche arguments, they’re most not factual and just based on weird misconceptions people have that they can’t back up with facts. 
 

People who don’t want him for his style of play is a fine stance, but even going to extent of diminshing a lot of his achievements is mental to me 

Mate, you said he’s a promoter of youth and adopted a model of selling home grown assets…. Which is clearly bollocks. Even confirmed by a Burnley fan. 

[5waller5]

3 hours ago, AKCJ said:

I think it's quite clear that Cooper was a long way down the list of managers we wanted. He was probably not even on it at first.

So don’t appoint him. It’s not hard.

 

Just like Dyche. Don’t do it. 

[Jobyfox]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

This is why appointing a new Director of Football is more important than the managerial appointment. We need a vision for the future that is not dependent on whoever happens to be our manager at a particular time. Only when we are clear about that vision should be be appointing the next manager. It probably won't happen like this, but it should.

I think that’s true. Cooper was such a poor appointment because he was so far unaligned to Maresca’s methodology and the squad had to start again. There was no continuity.
 

It would be good to have a model and then recruit into that model at all levels of the club. If it’s done really well then the manager role would almost become a coach role, which mitigates against the inevitable succession of managers at a club our size. 

I’d hoped that we might keep the style and philosophy that won us the Premier League.  Most teams try to replicate the Pep G style, but come unstuck with inferior quality players. It would be good to be a bit different in the way Forest have this season. Whatever the style is though - and everyone will have their preference - just pick one and stick to it. Going from Maresca to Dyche in three seasons is a bit like going from a Ferrari Purosangue to a souped up Ford Capri 

 

 

 

Edited 13 May 2025 by Jobyfox

[TonyN11]

Dyche Noooooooooo

[Lineker's Left Foot]

So anything credible to say this is happening then?

Edited 13 May 2025 by Lineker's Left Foot

[Number 6]

It's like we've not learned from last year: "the chaos at Forest wasn't Cooper, it was the owner's doing".

 

To now: "Dyche only played that rancid style with granddads at Everton and Burnley because of the circumstances he was in at those clubs".

 

Sure he's gonna come in and start inverting full backs for us 🙄

[Ric Flair]

6 hours ago, murphy said:

I just don't understand this idea that the club doesn't promote youth.  In this era, we have seen Chilwell, Barnes, KDH, Thomas,  McAteer, Choudhury, Stolarcyk and now actual children in Monga and Evans breaking into the first team.  I have never known so many youth team players breaking through in 45 years of supporting LCFC. 

 

Of the players you mentioned, Nyoni was poached and Braybrooke and Alves had long term injuries, are now on loan and likely to be in the next draft of academy graduates along with Nelson and the two schoolboys, if we can keep them. 

 

Genuinely baffles me how we seem to have collectively come the conclusion that the club doesn't promote youth despite all the evidence to the contrary. 

The shift change needed is at what age we are willing to blood them. We haven't given many much of a chance before the age of 19 previously and we've also struggled to get loans as well so you have that period of nothingness where vital development can be missed.

 

It's obviously not just the clubs fault but the concern is we've got very very good 14-17 year olds (won the U16 league last year) and others in younger age groups supposedly equally as talented compared to previous eras. Waiting until 18-19+ like before is what needs to be scrutinised. 

[AKCJ]

11 minutes ago, Lineker's Left Foot said:

So anything credible to see this is happening then?

Oh no, but when did that ever stop us?!

Edited 13 May 2025 by AKCJ

[TheGoldenGod]

10 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

It's like we've not learned from last year: "the chaos at Forest wasn't Cooper, it was the owner's doing".

 

To now: "Dyche only played that rancid style with granddads at Everton and Burnley because of the circumstances he was in at those clubs".

 

Sure he's gonna come in and start inverting full backs for us 🙄

Spot on. He's not suddenly going to change his playing style! It's a fallacy to think if he got a bit of backing he'd suddenly revolutionise they way his teams play. We know what we'd get with Dyche and people WILL turn when they realise the footy is turgid and we're not even in the Premier League and having to watch it.

Edited 13 May 2025 by TheGoldenGod

[Lineker's Left Foot]

6 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Oh no, but when did that ever stop us?!

Fair enough.  Probably not happening then.

[trooky]

6 hours ago, slymunn said:

Total minutes from Everton last season. Its better than what I thought actually (I couldn't fit all the squad on as I'm on the work computer!)

 

Thanks, he's played alot of younger players they've signed from other clubs before Dyche became manager but not sure you would class any as Everton academy prospects. 

 

A quick search on chatgpt says Dyche gave limited first team opportunities to academy players between 2023-2025 at Everton and only Dwight McNeil at Burnley between 2012-2022.

 

So in over a decade of management he's brought on McNeil and Branthwaite but he was signed from Carlisle at 18 and played10 times in the PL before Dyche. 

Edited 13 May 2025 by trooky

[slymunn]

18 minutes ago, trooky said:

Thanks, he's played alot of younger players they've signed from other clubs before Dyche became manager but not sure you would class any as Everton academy prospects. 

 

A quick search on chatgpt says Dyche gave limited first team opportunities to academy players between 2023-2025 at Everton and only Dwight McNeil at Burnley between 2012-2022.

 

So in over a decade of management he's brought on McNeil and Branthwaite but he was signed from Carlisle at 18 and played10 times in the PL before Dyche. 

He also had Anthony Gordon, but he left before this season started.

 

Looking at Everton and Burnley over the last 20 years they have had very little in terms of academy players really making it, so I'm not sure its fully Dyche at fault. 

 

[S1DDO]

agricultural football 

[MattFox]

Dyche’s Burnley were probably the closest equivalent you get to O’Neill at us in the modern era

 

Their points totals, playing style and tendency to get battered in away games are all very similar 

[Corky]

1 minute ago, MattFox said:

Dyche’s Burnley were probably the closest equivalent you get to O’Neill at us in the modern era

 

Their points totals, playing style and tendency to get battered in away games are all very similar 

I think the thought of Dyche is separate from the reality. Plus he has been away from this division and its demands for nearly a decade.

[MattFox]

3 minutes ago, Corky said:

I think the thought of Dyche is separate from the reality. Plus he has been away from this division and its demands for nearly a decade.

He’s not my first choice but I can see the pros and let’s face it we could easily end up with someone much worse knowing our owners

[CrispinLA in Texas]

Oh just give it to him, he's desperately wants the Leicester job by all the articles written by his journalist pals.

Just put some conditions on him....

1. Play the youngsters 

2. No more journeymen

3. Play ABIT of attractive football aswell, don't bore us to death

Edited 13 May 2025 by CrispinLA in Texas

[l444ry]

Lot of fiction, rewriting of history and dislike of Dyche cos some Everton fan said his style is awful. Strange?

[cityfanlee23]

1 hour ago, slymunn said:

He also had Anthony Gordon, but he left before this season started.

 

Looking at Everton and Burnley over the last 20 years they have had very little in terms of academy players really making it, so I'm not sure its fully Dyche at fault. 

 

The manager is one of the main drivers of building an academy. If these clubs lack academy prospects it's because the managers haven't driven for one. 
Sean Dyche brought over £1bn into Burnley in revenue and after 10 years had absolutely nothing to show for it in terms of youth prospects. 

If Dyche wanted to invest in 16-18 year olds and send scouts around all of the youth academies in the Championship/League 1/League 2 in order to sign them cheap and give them opportunities, he could have.

[HankMarvin]

25 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

The manager is one of the main drivers of building an academy. If these clubs lack academy prospects it's because the managers haven't driven for one. 
Sean Dyche brought over £1bn into Burnley in revenue and after 10 years had absolutely nothing to show for it in terms of youth prospects. 

If Dyche wanted to invest in 16-18 year olds and send scouts around all of the youth academies in the Championship/League 1/League 2 in order to sign them cheap and give them opportunities, he could have.

Like progressing their academy from nearly failing tier 3 to elite in 4 years you mean?

[HankMarvin]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

The shift change needed is at what age we are willing to blood them. We haven't given many much of a chance before the age of 19 previously and we've also struggled to get loans as well so you have that period of nothingness where vital development can be missed.

 

It's obviously not just the clubs fault but the concern is we've got very very good 14-17 year olds (won the U16 league last year) and others in younger age groups supposedly equally as talented compared to previous eras. Waiting until 18-19+ like before is what needs to be scrutinised. 

But it hasn’t done the players that have gone on to be successful here any harm waiting to have their debuts at 19.

Is there anyone other than Bassey who has slipped through the net playing at left back because there was Chilwell and Thomas ahead of him and didn’t see his future as a CB despite the club wanting to play him there that has gone on to look worthy of a first team role here at a young age that we have missed out on?

Trey Nyoni might spring to mind, but he left at about 16 and 4 months, so clearly that was more about the club coming in for him.

 

The mean average for players making their debuts under the age of 19 in the Prem over the last 3 seasons is on average is 1.3 per club 

 

In the championship is goes up slightly 1.5 per club 

So it’s not like the club is massively lagging behind in offering development for that age group.

Sometimes people get a little too excited about every talented youngster, the reality is the staff that deal with these kids are best placed to see it daily and just like with Monga and Evan’s they have been given opportunities because they are stand out talents for their age groups and excelled in older age groups and have both been linked with other clubs of late.

Regardless of who the manager is, is it likely that talented players who have been linked with other clubs from an early age would be overlooked by managers—especially when the owner would be fully aware of the financial benefits of playing highly rated young players, provided they are good enough? Take players like Monga and Evans, for example.

Do you think their first team involvement was simply down to Ruud van Nistelrooy, or was it more likely an instruction from the board as the pendulum had shifted from survival to the future

Edited 13 May 2025 by HankMarvin

[cityfanlee23]

11 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Like progressing their academy from nearly failing tier 3 to elite in 4 years you mean?

They went from Category 3 to Category 2 under Dyche until 2020 when they were initially granted category 1, after just 2 seasons they lost it after failing their Category 1 audit in his final year. There are plenty of clubs in the Championship with category one academies. 
But academy categories are not audited based on the talent they produce. Yeah, it's great that under Dyche the academy improved, but they clearly made very little effort to take advantage of that category improvement through actually signing young players from around the country or abroad to benefit from it. You can have the best academy in world football but if you are not actively signing players aged 15-18, what's the point?

One of the key differences between Category 2 and Category 1 is the level of funding available and resources for that Academy, Burnley failed that audit in his final yea

He had 10 years, 1bn in revenue, and an improvement in the category rating, and nothing to show for it.

 

Edited 13 May 2025 by cityfanlee23