Premier League has charged LCFC with an alleged breach of PSR

[Terraloon]

On 17/10/2025 at 13:11, Globalfox said:

Have been looking at wednesdays accounts over last three reported years and it has not been a shortage of spending but the issue that they spent too much when income could not cover it. Then the owners ability to cash flow from his own resources failed. Players not being paid hides that for many years the club and the players remunerations were way beyond what they should have been. We could have been in a similar position but our owner converted debt and we factored advance earnings. The proposal to restrict spending to 75 or 80% of earnings of the lowest earning club in the Division makes sense. It will make the top clubs uncompetitive in Europe so it’s about their position that is challenging. Do we want competitiveness or to watch the best against the at best hopeful. None of the current rules or proposed will be ‘fair’ and clubs will still fail. HMRC are at fault allowing clubs to run up large tax bills and is only allowed in sport. Professional football may well be at its zenith and the downward spiral may have begun.

Think you are way off if you think that HMRC “ allow” clubs to run up large tax bills.

 

The simple reality is that HMRC have limited options when a club fails to play tax/ in or VAT but compliance in terms of payments is vastly better than it was in the days before PSR/ FFP.
 

If a club like Sheffield Wednesday defaults then the PAYE/NIC and VAT grows at an alarming rate and if a WUO is issued  by anyone then HMRC can do nothing to enforce payment until the WUO is either paid or discharged and due to successive governments not wanting to see clubs go under in effect hearing after hearing gets adjourned all the while those debts grow.
 

In the day club after club entered administration mainly because HMRC issued Winding Up Orders like confetti but for a variety of reasons you rarely hear about WU orders . I think the record was something like 6 professional clubs having WUOs heard on the same day

A main reason is that clubs in the PL, EFL and NL have to report to the league governing bodies if they fall behind with payments, fail to file accounts and or submit companies house information. Failure to fulfil these obligations lead to a registration embargo and yes you see some of these put in place but very very few.

 

The proposed restrictions will be disastrous for football in England be it in the PL or indeed any league.

 

Lets suppose it was applied to the Championship where Oxfords income is less that £10 m Pa. Let’s assume the cap is 80% that’s £8 million that cap would be applied to LCFC it’s a way down from over £100 m  approximately currently being spent and even if you allowed a multiplier of say 5 ( which defeats the whole object of a salary cap) then that is still a massive drop. 

Edited 20 October 2025 by Terraloon

[Globalfox]

9 hours ago, Terraloon said:

Think you are way off if you think that HMRC “ allow” clubs to run up large tax bills.

 

The simple reality is that HMRC have limited options when a club fails to play tax/ in or VAT but compliance in terms of payments is vastly better than it was in the days before PSR/ FFP.
 

If a club like Sheffield Wednesday defaults then the PAYE/NIC and VAT grows at an alarming rate and if a WUO is issued  by anyone then HMRC can do nothing to enforce payment until the WUO is either paid or discharged and due to successive governments not wanting to see clubs go under in effect hearing after hearing gets adjourned all the while those debts grow.
 

In the day club after club entered administration mainly because HMRC issued Winding Up Orders like confetti but for a variety of reasons you rarely hear about WU orders . I think the record was something like 6 professional clubs having WUOs heard on the same day

A main reason is that clubs in the PL, EFL and NL have to report to the league governing bodies if they fall behind with payments, fail to file accounts and or submit companies house information. Failure to fulfil these obligations lead to a registration embargo and yes you see some of these put in place but very very few.

 

The proposed restrictions will be disastrous for football in England be it in the PL or indeed any league.

 

Lets suppose it was applied to the Championship where Oxfords income is less that £10 m Pa. Let’s assume the cap is 80% that’s £8 million that cap would be applied to LCFC it’s a way down from over £100 m  approximately currently being spent and even if you allowed a multiplier of say 5 ( which defeats the whole object of a salary cap) then that is still a massive drop. 

I own a number of companies and HMRC are down our throats if we are more than 30 days late. Sports entities not just football are treated more lenient which allows bills to spiral. That punishes the overall UK economy everyone is then supporting sport. I agree the proposed rules are stupid just like PSR. But then everyone seems to allow a pass to the overpaid footballers. Clubs and supporters fail to realize no sane business would pay these salaries knowing the level of income return. The only way is a cap on spending related to your income and yes it reduces competitiveness especially in the EPL which is what the big owners want. Supporters want an ideal world and it does not exist anymore. Start to knock players off hero worship pedestal none of them are worth the current salaries and agents add on. We need revolution starting with banning agents and any fees into their grubby hands. PAYE/nic and Vat must be paid within 60 days or trading suspended. Yes we need some winding up orders to knock sense into the system shock and awe for the wider good.

[FoxSince88]

Cba to read the thread but as it’s at the top Those inside the club are expecting a 9 point deduction. 

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, FoxSince88 said:

Cba to read the thread but as it’s at the top Those inside the club are expecting a 9 point deduction. 

That must have changed then as i was told a while back they're confident it'll be less than 6.

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

That must have changed then as i was told a while back they're confident it'll be less than 6.

I'll still be very surprised if it's nine.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

4 hours ago, FoxSince88 said:

Cba to read the thread but as it’s at the top Those inside the club are expecting a 9 point deduction. 

Source: Trust me bro.

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

I'll still be very surprised if it's nine.

Yeah can't see how it can be as that's the basis for administration isn't it. If we could trigger that to remove Top i'd be all for it 😂

[davieG]

59 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Yeah can't see how it can be as that's the basis for administration isn't it. If we could trigger that to remove Top i'd be all for it 😂

Unless it's for two different law breaks 6+3

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, davieG said:

Unless it's for two different law breaks 6+3

True, but submitting our accounts late should not incur a points deduction. Usually it's a fine.

[davieG]

14 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

True, but submitting our accounts late should not incur a points deduction. Usually it's a fine.

Also I thought it was some arbitration panel that decided not the PL, have they even gone through the process of proving ourr guilt yet.

[grth2004]

On 15/10/2025 at 00:24, Gamble92 said:

I don't see any evidence any team are better than us in this division. When we get going I think we will get 90+. Just need the deduction to be 4-6 points and it's HMS PISS THE LEAGUE 

 

GIMME A BEEP BEEP

Sorry to bring this up but can we all start being realistic now where we are as a club. 

[Chrysalis]

On 18/10/2025 at 13:11, Angus Scott said:

The salary cap is a good idea in principle but it would never work, the big 6 cartel would find ways around it.

Also, unless it was agreed throughout Europe, the Premier League would never agree to it, as the English teams would be un-competitive in European competitions

So its down to the cartel even though they a minority.

 

A proper cap is no good because then they cant spend to compete against European giants,

No cap is no good because then its unfair to them to have to compete fairly with clubs outside of the cartel.

 

Have I got that right?

 

Starting to understand Man City's approach, if a big concrete wall is put in the way, the solution is a bulldozer.

Edited 24 October 2025 by Chrysalis

[BKLFox]

& there we have it PSR does not do what it states it tries to protect, with Sheff Wed going into administration they have been hit with a 12pt deduction putting them bottom of the table with -6pts. The chances are they will be relegated, any half decent players sold, redundancies to back room & support staff, reduction in community engagements whilst Chansiri continues to asset strip & sell the club enabling him to walk away pretty much unscathed, the whole system stinks.

Ok probably can't take anything else out of the club but probably done what he can already but he'll walk away whilst the club continues to struggle.

Edited 24 October 2025 by BKLFox

[jammie82uk]

11 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

whilst Chansiri continues to asset strip & sell the club enabling him to walk away pretty much unscathed, the whole system stinks.

How has he asset stripped, he’s poorer now then when he took over, the club will hopefully be sold but Chansiri won’t profit from it as the money will pay the creditors

[Les-TA-Jon]

22 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

& there we have it PSR does not do what it states it tries to protect, with Sheff Wed going into administration they have been hit with a 12pt deduction putting them bottom of the table with -6pts. The chances are they will be relegated, any half decent players sold, redundancies to back room & support staff, reduction in community engagements whilst Chansiri continues to asset strip & sell the club enabling him to walk away pretty much unscathed, the whole system stinks.

Ok probably can't take anything else out of the club but probably done what he can already but he'll walk away whilst the club continues to struggle.

Sorry, what has PSR rules got to do with Sheff Wednesday? 

[BKLFox]

10 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

How has he asset stripped, he’s poorer now then when he took over, the club will hopefully be sold but Chansiri won’t profit from it as the money will pay the creditors

i did edit to say he'll not get anything out now the administrators are in but i'm sure he has sold anything he could prior to this.

The 1st & main part of the comment still stands, PSR does exactly the opposite of what it states it meant to protect. 

 

4 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Sorry, what has PSR rules got to do with Sheff Wednesday? 

ooh silly me FFP forgive me same diff with regards to what its meant to protect

[beepee1984]

14 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

How has he asset stripped, he’s poorer now then when he took over, the club will hopefully be sold but Chansiri won’t profit from it as the money will pay the creditors

He personally brought the stadium and put it into a separate company called "Sheffield 3 Limited" 

 

Both the club and Sheffield 3 Limited has been put into Administration and will the admin will look for buyers for both. If the stadium is sold then the proceeds of sale will be used to clear Sheffield 3's debts and any profit will go to the owner and not back to the club - and only assets owned by the football club can be sold to clear the football clubs debt meaning the new owners are likley to have to take on any remaining debt or the club will be wound up

 

Although I'm not a financial expert - so could be wrong

[jammie82uk]

1 hour ago, beepee1984 said:

Both the club and Sheffield 3 Limited has been put into Administration

If they are both in Administration then he has no control over either

 

1 hour ago, beepee1984 said:

any profit will go to the owner and not back to the club

There should be no profit, the sole aim of the administration is to find a buyer to clear debts and move forward, the current cost of the club and stadium are effectively set by the amounts owed and always normally open to negotiation between new buyer and Administrator, Creditors would rather get something then nothing at all but like you I’m not a financial expert 

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Strap in! 

[supernuk]

Here we go. Let's hope Leicester have the best legal team to fight it. 

[foxer]

????? Where do I look for this news?

[Nolucklcfc]

This the one where we find out if we get a points deduction? Aren’t the EFL trying to do us too? 

[VLC86]

9 minutes ago, foxer said:

????? Where do I look for this news?

The cupboard under the stairs mate.

[Guest]

Short version for anyone wondering: Percy reporting that our charges will be heard next week. Accused of breaching PSR in 23/24, failing to provide our accounts before the deadline and basically failing to cooperate with the Premier League. Nick De Marco "expected" to be representing us again.

 

As for the outcome, "a final verdict is not expected until the end of this year at the earliest" and any sanctions, including points deductions, can be imposed this season.

[Aleksz]

What's really the news here, the club have accepted it, we're getting a points deduction, move on - what will be will be.