Marti Cifuentes appointed new manager

[when_you're_smiling]

5 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

It gets run through with or without Winks. We have no defensive midfielder, so I dont think we have a more defensively solid midfield available. It's not like we have defensive solidity with Soumare and/or Skipp either. Maybe Choudhury?

 

Barcelona won la liga with a Pedri, Olmo, De Jong midfield, sometimes you dont need a defensive minded midfielder as long as the players are organised and good enough.

Are you comparing us to Barcelona? **** me!

[moore_94]

9 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

It gets run through with or without Winks. We have no defensive midfielder, so I dont think we have a more defensively solid midfield available. It's not like we have defensive solidity with Soumare and/or Skipp either. Maybe Choudhury?

 

Barcelona won la liga with a Pedri, Olmo, De Jong midfield, sometimes you dont need a defensive minded midfielder as long as the players are organised and good enough.

They had Casado who was doing it, and they had the full backs pressing inwards when the ball was lost to try and overload the midfield and recover the ball

 

Then after that they had brilliant centre backs who would then be able to deal with it

 

We have none of the above

[honeybradger]

5 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Are you comparing us to Barcelona? **** me!

Not what I said at all. Just saying you dont necessarily need a defensive midfielder to play well as long as the players are committed and have quality for the level theyre at which El Khannouss and Page are/do.

[when_you're_smiling]

Just now, honeybradger said:

Not what I said at all. Just saying you dont necessarily need a defensive midfielder to play well as long as the players are committed and have quality for the level theyre at which El Khannouss and Page are/do.

Well yeah… if you’re Barcelona and you can attract both the best players and the best youngsters in the world, you don’t need as much defensively.

 

If El Khannouss and Page were that good, they’d be at Barcelona.

[HankMarvin]

“The talent they can bring on means they can change how they look to build up as well, which can throw you a little bit. I thought without the ball we had to be excellent and we were. One blip was the goal, but apart from that Dan made one save. Apart from that, we defended our box really, really well. All their shots were from 20/25 yards”

[honeybradger]

3 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

They had Casado who was doing it, and they had the full backs pressing inwards when the ball was lost to try and overload the midfield and recover the ball

 

Then after that they had brilliant centre backs who would then be able to deal with it

 

We have none of the above

Last I saw Casado wasnt a starter anymore? 

 

Our defenders will never be as good as Barcelona's but they dont have to be as we're at a lower level. From what I've seen of Aluko he has the athleticism to help cover midfield deficiencies and if we dropped Vestergaard for Nelson we would have a lot fewer gaps in defence with the added mobility. Nelson was certainly brilliant at this level at the end of last season 🤷‍♂️

[honeybradger]

9 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Well yeah… if you’re Barcelona and you can attract both the best players and the best youngsters in the world, you don’t need as much defensively.

 

If El Khannouss and Page were that good, they’d be at Barcelona.

You're debating with an imaginary person. I certainly didn't say what you think im saying. 

[Kitchandro]

5 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

The problem is, there’s no alternative. Cifuentes likes 2 in the centre rather than Enzo’s single pivot. With Ndidi gone there’s no one else. Skipp isn’t as good as Soumare which isn’t saying much and with Ndidi gone there’s nothing else. Even Enzo would struggle to play his system with this team. We are desperately weak in central midfield. Only Winks is good enough at this level but he needs a player with some physicality next to him.

The manager’s job isn’t to stick to one formation and then say ‘I don’t have enough good central midfielders to play MY system’.  The job is to assess the squad and pick the best players in their favoured position. The idea that only one system can result in success is obviously false so a manager swearing by a formation, rather than a style of play or building a team around your best players, is clearly flawed. If we have no good centre mids don’t pick a formation that requires 2 of them. 
 

5 hours ago, Philkeavo said:

Name them (the bad calls) and what you’d have done differently. Not being antagonistic, I’d like to hear the alternative because I don’t see any with the players at his disposal.

 

My worry is he is persisting with a system the players at his disposal are incapable of playing that leaves the team exposed so starkly on the flanks. 

Can’t you see how contradictory this is? He’s persisting with something that won’t work but you think he can’t do anything else. Well, obviously that isn’t true.

 

5 hours ago, South Shire Fox said:

Nothing to do with the manager. The players are absolutley wank and hes not been able to bring a single player in besides a 40 year old reserve goalkeeper. Klopp wouldnt get a tune out of some of these

People keep saying this but it’s obviously something to do with the manager. He does manage the team. The idea that the best managers don’t make a difference is just silly. 
 

This is a difficult job but not impossible, everyone was saying this was the best squad in the league a week ago. I didn’t agree with that, but it’s not the worst either.

To be clear, our predicament is largely down to a lot of things out of the manager’s control. I’m not having a go at him. But that doesn’t mean he can do no wrong this season. I think it’s fair to expect to see some positive signs and sensible decision making from a manager regardless of the players we have. He needs to learn quickly and stamp his mark on the team ASAP otherwise he’s got no chance. He must have known what he was getting into, the fans certainly did and we have no inside info.

 

Edited 16 August 2025 by Kitchandro

[ronnup]

Think we need to accept that this mess is going to take a few seasons to fix

[fazzyfox]

Is it possible that the new manager has made tweaks and changes to how we used to play and the players are still getting used to it? That’s our players, the ones who are traditionally slow to adapt.

Add to that the ones who don’t want to be here and the very short time he has had to implement his ideas, can we really expect a run of results so soon?

I would prefer him to alienate the ones with either attitude problems or those who are not part of our mid to long term future, that would be my one criticism so far.
What does it teach Page when you hand Soumare another start after jogging around lethargically, it’s the wrong method and wrong standards but not the first time we’ve seen that.

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, honeybradger said:

Last I saw Casado wasnt a starter anymore? 

 

Our defenders will never be as good as Barcelona's but they dont have to be as we're at a lower level. From what I've seen of Aluko he has the athleticism to help cover midfield deficiencies and if we dropped Vestergaard for Nelson we would have a lot fewer gaps in defence with the added mobility. Nelson was certainly brilliant at this level at the end of last season 🤷‍♂️

Started 20 league games - then they also utilised Bernal, Garcia, and Gavi who are very much defensive minded

 

There was only 3 league games where they played without one of the above

 

But then what back 4 do you go with in order to provide the defensive stability we would need?

 

You would also need the full backs to both be comfortable enough to invert to help out in midfield, and from what I have seen the only one we have who can do that is Ricardo, who we can't rely on

[honeybradger]

10 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Started 20 league games - then they also utilised Bernal, Garcia, and Gavi who are very much defensive minded

 

There was only 3 league games where they played without one of the above

 

But then what back 4 do you go with in order to provide the defensive stability we would need?

 

You would also need the full backs to both be comfortable enough to invert to help out in midfield, and from what I have seen the only one we have who can do that is Ricardo, who we can't rely on

Probably would go Aluko and Choudhury/Justin 🤷‍♂️, you dont need to be comfortable in possession as a midfielder to help out defensively.

 

I think we need to accept that we dont have a functional starting XI no matter how you set it up, i would just personally like to see as many good players in the starting XI that also have a desire to be here.

[dmayne7]

59 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

As much as I would want to see it, that midfield gets run through by any semi-decent opposition

True but it feels like it has to be done. You can't be playing Winks after today and Weds because he simply won't care how things pan out. Soumare, nothing needs to be said. So unless you are asking Skipp to Hamza to sit in and do nothing else, what real options are there? BEK has to moved deeper as at least he can dictate play from there and we can focus on getting somebody with some goal threat in the 10/advanced midfield role. We're going to dominate the ball so we have to just try and make the most of it and hope that can outweigh the defensive deficiencies.

 

Ridiculous that we theoretically have great options out wide and at full back for this level but the spine of the team is either shockingly poor of completely unbalanced.

[funkyrobot]

46 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

The manager’s job isn’t to stick to one formation and then say ‘I don’t have enough good central midfielders to play MY system’.  The job is to assess the squad and pick the best players in their favoured position. The idea that only one system can result in success is obviously false so a manager swearing by a formation, rather than a style of play or building a team around your best players, is clearly flawed. If we have no good centre mids don’t pick a formation that requires 2 of them. 
 

Can’t you see how contradictory this is? He’s persisting with something that won’t work but you think he can’t do anything else. Well, obviously that isn’t true.

 

People keep saying this but it’s obviously something to do with the manager. He does manage the team. The idea that the best managers don’t make a difference is just silly. 
 

This is a difficult job but not impossible, everyone was saying this was the best squad in the league a week ago. I didn’t agree with that, but it’s not the worst either.

To be clear, our predicament is largely down to a lot of things out of the manager’s control. I’m not having a go at him. But that doesn’t mean he can do no wrong this season. I think it’s fair to expect to see some positive signs and sensible decision making from a manager regardless of the players we have. He needs to learn quickly and stamp his mark on the team ASAP otherwise he’s got no chance. He must have known what he was getting into, the fans certainly did and we have no inside info.

 

The point is, Cifuentes has only got one experienced midfielder to select that we can reasonably expect to compete at the top end of this league. Winks is our one creative midfielder who is quality (but who lacks physicality) and then after that he’s only got Soumare and Skipp. Wtf can Marti  do with that?? At the same time in The Championship 2 years ago Enzo had Winks, Ndidi, KDH, Praet, Casadei with a fit Ricardo to offer support. Every one of those players is better than Soumare and Skipp. Soumare should be good enough but lacks the mentality and concentration to have the level of consistency that a top player needs. Skipp just hasn’t got it based on his 1st 12 months here. His one season in the sun was 5 years ago at a Covid crowdless Norwich!!  

[funkyrobot]

25 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

True but it feels like it has to be done. You can't be playing Winks after today and Weds because he simply won't care how things pan out. Soumare, nothing needs to be said. So unless you are asking Skipp to Hamza to sit in and do nothing else, what real options are there? BEK has to moved deeper as at least he can dictate play from there and we can focus on getting somebody with some goal threat in the 10/advanced midfield role. We're going to dominate the ball so we have to just try and make the most of it and hope that can outweigh the defensive deficiencies.

 

Ridiculous that we theoretically have great options out wide and at full back for this level but the spine of the team is either shockingly poor of completely unbalanced.

We have great options on the wing for this level, and that’s about it.  We have one good experienced fullback in Ricardo who’s very injury prone and 3 weak links in JJ, Thomas and VK - and a utility player in Hamza who looked way off it against Huddersfield .

[Philkeavo]

1 hour ago, Kitchandro said:

The manager’s job isn’t to stick to one formation and then say ‘I don’t have enough good central midfielders to play MY system’.  The job is to assess the squad and pick the best players in their favoured position. The idea that only one system can result in success is obviously false so a manager swearing by a formation, rather than a style of play or building a team around your best players, is clearly flawed. If we have no good centre mids don’t pick a formation that requires 2 of them. 
 

Can’t you see how contradictory this is? He’s persisting with something that won’t work but you think he can’t do anything else.

 

I accept my comments were somewhat poorly presented. They weren’t meant to come across as contradictory.
 

I was trying to convey his preferred system doesn’t appear to be working with the players at his disposal and while perhaps he should try alternatives I don’t think he will.

[lcfcbluearmy]

6 hours ago, honeybradger said:

He has opportunities for us to be better:

 

He's not giving minutes to the like of Nelson, Aluko, Page, Alves, Evans.

 

He's not starting Monga who is our best player.

 

You cant tell me that Evans would not be better than what Daka and Ayew showed tonight.

 

Vestergaard will constantly let us down. Yes Nelson wasnt good the other week but he is a young developing player whilst Vestergaard is at the end of career and still puts up clangers just as bad as Nelson against Huddersfield like he did today. I know which player I would rather start but i also have a strong hunch which player Cifuentes will back.

 

Aluko was so so impressive in pre season and has received 0 (zero) minutes this season. His ability to drive with the ball was one of our best attacking outlets and he was very good defensively. Justin and Thomas were poor today, Cifuentes is again shooting himself in the foot by not giving Aluko a chance.

 

Page has impressed with every chance he had, including against Huddersfield. 0 minutes today, he is a similar talent bracket to Monga who was our best player, not a far reach to suggest that given a chance Page would be one of our better players as well yet Cifuentes is not utilising him. Instead he is playing the mardy Winks who has given up on this club.

 

Alves didn't show much against Huddersfield but he was a good impact player on loan at Cardiff. Cifuentes should be utilising that instead of leaving him at home. Would be better than Ayea in the role that Ayew played in the second half as well.

It’s been 2 league games Monga stated on Wednesday he’s 16 he can’t play 90 minutes twice a week. He is giving time to youth players, give it chance

[lcfcbluearmy]

1 hour ago, Kitchandro said:

The manager’s job isn’t to stick to one formation and then say ‘I don’t have enough good central midfielders to play MY system’.  The job is to assess the squad and pick the best players in their favoured position. The idea that only one system can result in success is obviously false so a manager swearing by a formation, rather than a style of play or building a team around your best players, is clearly flawed. If we have no good centre mids don’t pick a formation that requires 2 of them. 
 

Can’t you see how contradictory this is? He’s persisting with something that won’t work but you think he can’t do anything else. Well, obviously that isn’t true.

 

People keep saying this but it’s obviously something to do with the manager. He does manage the team. The idea that the best managers don’t make a difference is just silly. 
 

This is a difficult job but not impossible, everyone was saying this was the best squad in the league a week ago. I didn’t agree with that, but it’s not the worst either.

To be clear, our predicament is largely down to a lot of things out of the manager’s control. I’m not having a go at him. But that doesn’t mean he can do no wrong this season. I think it’s fair to expect to see some positive signs and sensible decision making from a manager regardless of the players we have. He needs to learn quickly and stamp his mark on the team ASAP otherwise he’s got no chance. He must have known what he was getting into, the fans certainly did and we have no inside info.

 

Name one recognised formation that doesn’t contain at least 2 cm I’ll wait 

[BrianBeane]

Marti isn't the problem. The board is.

[honeybradger]

6 minutes ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

It’s been 2 league games Monga stated on Wednesday he’s 16 he can’t play 90 minutes twice a week. He is giving time to youth players, give it chance

Needs to be starting in the league as he's currently our best player. It's more than development and 'giving time' with Monga it's also about promotion, we are reducing our chances of going up by not starting him in the championship.

 

If he cant play 90 minutes twice a week (he hasnt played 90 minutes once in his senior career) then he should be playing in the league not the cup.

 

Apart from Monga we haven't seen any youth players play in the championship.

[Grebfromgrebland]

6 hours ago, Shane said:

Having your LB bomb forward when the LCB is Vestergaard is beyond daft.
 

Preston did a good job exploiting the acres of space in behind our left flank.

It wasn't rocket science to let us attack then exploit the space behind the full backs on the counter attack.

 

 

 

 

[lcfcbluearmy]

1 minute ago, honeybradger said:

Needs to be starting in the league as he's currently our best player. It's more than development and 'giving time' with Monga it's also about promotion, we are reducing our chances of going up by not starting him in the championship.

 

If he cant play 90 minutes twice a week (he hasnt played 90 minutes once in his senior career) then he should be playing in the league not the cup.

 

Apart from Monga we haven't seen any youth players play in the championship.

He started on Wednesday played 30 on Saturday and 30 minutes today he’s 16 he can’t run the team he has to be managed. He will I’m sure play plenty more for us and become more and more regular as time goes on but you can’t start a 16 year old every game and expect him to perform to his best it’s stupid and unrealistic to think that

 

Apart from Monga we haven't seen any youth players play in the championship. - it’s been 2 games give the guy chance ffs

[honeybradger]

5 minutes ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

He started on Wednesday played 30 on Saturday and 30 minutes today he’s 16 he can’t run the team he has to be managed. He will I’m sure play plenty more for us and become more and more regular as time goes on but you can’t start a 16 year old every game and expect him to perform to his best it’s stupid and unrealistic to think that

 

Apart from Monga we haven't seen any youth players play in the championship. - it’s been 2 games give the guy chance ffs

It's just football. I can absolutely expect our best player to be starting in the league for us, it's not like Monga would combust just because he's 16. Should have started vs Wednesday, gotten 20-30 mins against Huddersfield then started yesterday.

 

I was also just refuting your claim that's he's given time to youth players, he hasnt really.

[Hirsty The Blue 94]

Obviously massive part of the shambles is above him, which hamstrings what he can do. But that's not changing as much as we want to anytime soon.

 

But as others have mentioned, this stinks of Sousa coming in and trying to imprint a style on players who either don't have the capability or don't care enough to do it. Wants to play a high press but that's started by Ayew who for all he is bashed a touch unfairly isn't that sort of player. Has a collection of midfielders who are incapable of have no desire to do what is asked. And a back 4 too slow and weak to go and press 1 v 1 against their front players, defeating the entire purpose of the system he wants.

 

Decent managers at this level win playing a multitude of ways, take Pearson first spell it was very direct up to big Howard and play off that, whilst being solid at the back. When he came back and had better players played a more free flowing brand of football. Over the last few years at this club so fed up of managers being wedded to a style and system despite not having the players to do it. Either the board back him in the last 2 weeks which seems unlikely or he has to adapt to what we have. For all his many faults.Cooper in recent years has been best at this, be crap for 75 minutes then have some chaos ball for 15 where we stole the odd result. 

[Uncle Monty]

Obviously he needs time to be judged probably. Saying that, a big thing I liked on the first interview was his talk about him getting the fans on board, showing that even if we lose, as long as everyone puts everything in, fans will be more understanding. 

 

From what I've seen so far, I haven't seen much hunger or desire. Preston won pretty much all the 50/50s and the same with Huddersfield. 

 

Is it a player who thing, like when we got relegated from the prem with Madders "we're too good to go down"? Players simply thinking they are too good and don't put any effort in?

 

I could forgive a team that tries and loses but it just breaks me down watching a half assed performance. It's beyond anger for me, it's just so painful.