Wes Burns (signed, official)

[boosmanana]

13 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

The same was said about how signing Ayew for £5mil was good value because he could be the difference maker for keeping us in the Prem.

 

In football you simply can't make decisions purely on the best case scenario.

 

If Wes Burns does not work out we will be stuck with him on upper end championship wages. No one will want to sign him because of the wages either.

Nobody said signing Jordan Ayew for £5mil was good value though did they? Not a single person as we all knew he was shit.

[AKCJ]

1 hour ago, kingfox said:

What annoys me is that many fans have stated we need to get our culture right, now Russell Martin is trying to do exactly that, but signing a few experienced pros that know the league and have promotions on their CV, is the wrong way to go about it 🤷‍♂️

 

Just ask yourself this, did you really want to go into a League 1 season with the likes of Choudhury and BDCR as our main senior pros? 
 

Look at Chelsea this summer for instance, their model of signing only young players has constantly been ridiculed, now they’ve finally realised that it’s not the best way to go, so they bring in the likes of Welbeck and Henderson. 
 

It was so important for us to get the culture right this summer, along with getting the right squad balance. Burns, Chaplin and Cullen might all turn out shit, but you can clearly see that we’re going about our business to rectify those two issues. Getting the right balance in the squad is just sensible squad management, a few experienced pros coming through the door this summer, whether you like it or not was inevitable imo. 
 

In terms of our academy players, the core of Aluko, Joseph, Page, Braybrooke and Alves were always the five that were going to be looked at as being ready for the first team this season.

 

Then you come to the likes of Gray, Neale, Briggs, Carr, Evans, Hutchinson and Otchere. Two have been loaned out, while question marks remain over the other five. Russell Martin specifically stated the other week that some will go on loan or remain with the U21s. Imo I hope at least one of Evans or Carr stick around and get some first team minutes on occasions, for the rest, especially Neale and Hutchinson, a loan to League Two might be ideal.

I don't think you have to sign players who are on Premier League/Championship money with a clear limitation (neither Cullen, Burns or Chaplin have achieved much in the Championship).

 

So now we're signing players that will be Championship squad players on Championship first team wages next season as the best case scenario. With the worst case scenario being a failure to get promoted and having these players on massive wages for 3 years while the atmosphere turns toxic again.

 

We had the same reviews of good behaviour and "he'll do well for you" from the likes of Palace (Ayew), Spurs (Skipp and Winks) and Fulham (BDCR).

 

We do need experience but we need players with a point to prove. We don't need players here for their last big pay day.

[Big_Nige]

25 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

The same was said about how signing Ayew for £5mil was good value because he could be the difference maker for keeping us in the Prem.

 

In football you simply can't make decisions purely on the best case scenario.

 

If Wes Burns does not work out we will be stuck with him on upper end championship wages. No one will want to sign him because of the wages either.

Nobody said that about Ayew. There was universal criticism for that signing, Cooper was obsessed with adding premier league experience to a squad that had spent the best part of a decade in it. It was terrible business from an ability and financial viewpoint and I can’t remember any polarising opinions in the Jordan Ayew transfer thread. It was disbelief 
 

Burns, your point is very valid and that’s the concern, his experience, and ability (if fit) should complement the squad. Financially it’s a gamble and I think we’re all sick of KP gambling with our finances 

[Lillehamring]

27 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

We're not operating under PSR any more—it's now SCMP, which works differently. But yes, spreading a player's wages over three years at a lower annual rate make it easier to comply with the rules than paying a huge salary over shorter period.

Sure, I figured it was called something, but you got my meaning - i'm still inclined to call it FFP!

[Stadt]

50 minutes ago, ktfoxes said:

 

Where are you getting this idea that he's not going to play? 

I never said that - it was in response to the idea of him not starting.

 

 

I'm so fed up of this thread. I'm no positing in it anymore 

[Richmondfox]

Just got a text from my Ipswich mate which I’ve added below.  He said he’s the opposite in style of step over challenge wingers like Mavadidi. Obviously Ipswich had him during his prime but I’m sold. 

 

‘Looks like you’re signing Wes burns off us, absolute top player arguably best signing of McKenna era, works his nuts off, had a bad knee injury year before last, but should be quality in league one still’

[Centreleigh]

18 minutes ago, Stadt said:

I never said that - it was in response to the idea of him not starting.

 

 

I'm so fed up of this thread. I'm no positing in it anymore 

You just did......... 

[honeybradger]

1 hour ago, boosmanana said:

Nobody said signing Jordan Ayew for £5mil was good value though did they? Not a single person as we all knew he was shit.

It is just objectively wrong that everyone was saying he was shit. These were just from the last 4 pages of the Ayew transfer thread. The last page was just the signing breaking and no commentary.

 

I can't find any saying that staying up in the PL would justify the price tag but there were plenty.

 

Very similar logic at to why he's a good signing as this thread as well, hopefully Burns turns out better.

Edited 6 August by honeybradger

[Bluearmyfox28]

7 hours ago, FoxesWalk said:

assuming he can stay fit post ACL surgery, Burns is a good signing.
 

There is a pretty decent chance that after this season he offers little to nothing to us 

I’ve highlighted two points from your post here which again appear to be a narrative which I just don’t feel are true. 
 

Burns has played around 20 games since his ACL, that’s just under half a season where he has stayed fit, how much more time do we need to give to state he’s good to go? Ipswich fans are on record stating he seems like his usual self and not lost any of his pace. Let me ask you this, would you question whether Fatawu could stay fit post ACL injury? Because I guarantee many would not yet they did their injuries two months apart?! 
 

We live in an era now where ACL injuries are not deemed career ending as they used to once be. Many high profile sportsman have even stated after their ACL injuries that they genuinely feel stronger and more comfortable after surgery. Yes, there is many cases also where that is not the case but that’s where you have to see once they return, to which we have the evidence of that from Ipswich fans saying he looks his usual self.

 

Then your last point, don’t get it twisted because of his age, Wes Burns is currently a very good rotational player at championship level. So with regards to him offering “little to us” at the absolute worse case he’s a good rotation player to have in the squad and either Alves kicks on and takes the starting role or you sign a starting right winger. 

[Aleksz]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

If I'm Alves and I don't start first game of the season I'm handing in a transfer request - that's the cub saying we are never going to believe in you as a first team player.

Good idea, He could type it up from the physio's room table.

Edited 6 August by Aleksz

[MGLCFC]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

If I'm Alves and I don't start first game of the season I'm handing in a transfer request - that's the cub saying we are never going to believe in you as a first team player.

Or he could be like Mavadidi who has had no competition for his shirt the last 2 seasons and therefore doesn't try. Competition for places is good, makes players realise if their standards drop, they'll be replaced. Alves will have plenty of opportunities to shine this year. It's his job to take that opportunity whenever it presents itself.

[Bluearmyfox28]

6 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Signing a 31 year old winger who has barely played in the last 2 seasons

 

Personally I think we have a better chance of going up next season playing Carr than Burns.

It’s not that he’s barely played for the last 2 season at all though is it? He did his ACL in January and was out for 11 months (standard timeframe of recovery), of course he missed half a season of one season and half of the other that’s just the timing of when he did his ACL. It’s not like his recovery took any longer than the standard ACL, again I will use Fatawu as reference. 
 

I understand concern around the injury but that’s why you go off how they seem when they return, to which again Ipswich fans have stated he seems his usual self, but for some reason we ignore that? Yet again using Fatawu as reference would we have that level of concern regarding him staying fit? No, we know he looks his usual self.

 

With regards to Carr, I think he looks a real talent but I don’t understand how you can even come to that conclusion when he has zero football league men’s experience? I understand we’ve been burnt a lot by the likes of Ayew but we can’t paint everyone with the same brush. I understand as a fan base we are desperate to get young keen academy lads into the squad but we don’t need to rush their development that’s when mistakes happen and opinions quickly change, these kids need protecting whether people like it or not.

 

Carr would be our 5th choice winger following these additions, that’s a huge step in his development and great depth for us! No one would have called Carr to be our 5th choice prior to pre-season, so now we have decision to make… is he better served staying with the squad and learning whilst getting an occasional opportunity or do you send him out on loan to play a full season to further develop with real matchday experience.
 

This is a good problem to have it doesn’t need to be viewed as a negative. 

[Foxmeister]

48 minutes ago, Centreleigh said:

You just did......... 

even if they do say Jehovah 

[Silva Fox]

How long is this medical taking?

[hackneyfox]

2 hours ago, honeybradger said:

 

 

If Wes Burns does not work out we will be stuck with him on upper end championship wages. No one will want to sign him because of the wages either.

I very much doubt we are offering upper end championship wages, that would likely be in excess of £20ka week.

[Foxmeister]

34 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

It is just objectively wrong that everyone was saying he was shit. These were just from the last 4 pages of the Ayew transfer thread. The last page was just the signing breaking and no commentary.

 

I can't find any saying that staying up in the PL would justify the price tag but there were plenty.

 

Very similar logic at to why he's a good signing as this thread as well, hopefully Burns turns out better.

It’s the “work hard” that really sticks with me.

[Fox85]

4 minutes ago, Silva Fox said:

How long is this medical taking?

Going off his quite impressive injury record, I'd imagine it could take upto 2 weeks.

 

If he passes we might be fortunate to have him injury free for 50% of the season.

[hackneyfox]

13 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

It’s not that he’s barely played for the last 2 season at all though is it? He did his ACL in January and was out for 11 months (standard timeframe of recovery), of course he missed half a season of one season and half of the other that’s just the timing of when he did his ACL. It’s not like his recovery took any longer than the standard ACL, again I will use Fatawu as reference. 
 

I understand concern around the injury but that’s why you go off how they seem when they return, to which again Ipswich fans have stated he seems his usual self, but for some reason we ignore that? Yet again using Fatawu as reference would we have that level of concern regarding him staying fit? No, we know he looks his usual self.

 

With regards to Carr, I think he looks a real talent but I don’t understand how you can even come to that conclusion when he has zero football league men’s experience? I understand we’ve been burnt a lot by the likes of Ayew but we can’t paint everyone with the same brush. I understand as a fan base we are desperate to get young keen academy lads into the squad but we don’t need to rush their development that’s when mistakes happen and opinions quickly change, these kids need protecting whether people like it or not.

 

Carr would be our 5th choice winger following these additions, that’s a huge step in his development and great depth for us! No one would have called Carr to be our 5th choice prior to pre-season, so now we have decision to make… is he better served staying with the squad and learning whilst getting an occasional opportunity or do you send him out on loan to play a full season to further develop with real matchday experience.
 

This is a good problem to have it doesn’t need to be viewed as a negative. 

If we went into the season playing Carr then it's extremely likely that honeybradger would be moaning about it.

[Bluearmyfox28]

7 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

The positive brigade and the negative nay sayers both have valid points, always have always will. I'm in the latter but wasn't always, the club have driven me here and it is what it is. I still get overly delusional every pre-season when our academy players are a breath of fresh air and then they either get neglected or show they aren't ready and i'm back in my box.

 

But in defence of folk mentally scarred by how appalling we've been ran in the last 3-4 years that get triggered when they see us operating similarly just a rung down, e.g your Coady and Winks at £60k + a week in the Championship at 3 times the average salary vs Chaplin, Cullen and Burns at £15-20k a week vs the average £6-8k and it's easy to swim in toxicity once again.

 

On the other hand, if we are going to right the wrongs or see any green shoots of recovery, it's not healthy to shout down and dismiss everything in the present day because the past was so bad. Maybe we are cutting our cloth more accordingly and there is a plan and an element of trust needs to be given back to our custodians of this football club. I find that hard to write right now, I must admit. I have no faith in them but I so badly want to. The club is up for sale and hopefully everyone is pulling in the same direction to secure a more prosperous future for us.

 

 

Nail on the head. It’s fair to say I’ve shared very different opinions with yourself on a good amount of business this season for example Cullen.

 

But for me I have 4 main boxes that I want from my football club, 1) A clear footballing identity. 2) A clear plan on what we are trying to achieve with the playing squad through recruitment and a healthy balanced squad in all positions. 3) A mixture of good experience and youth. 4) A desire to wear our club shirt and give it everything. 
 

For me personally I would say all those boxes are being ticked. I despise the higher ups of this football club and the sooner they go the better. But at the same time I have to acknowledge and feel positive about my 4 main categories being in place. I fully understand why some can not but that also does not mean we have to treat every bit of news with negativity. 

[honeybradger]

10 minutes ago, Foxmeister said:

It’s the “work hard” that really sticks with me.

I like "intelligence of his play" from Casablancas considering his entire game plan when he got the ball was to look for contact and fall over.

Edited 6 August by honeybradger

[Leicester_Loyal]

42 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

It is just objectively wrong that everyone was saying he was shit. These were just from the last 4 pages of the Ayew transfer thread. The last page was just the signing breaking and no commentary.

 

I can't find any saying that staying up in the PL would justify the price tag but there were plenty.

 

Very similar logic at to why he's a good signing as this thread as well, hopefully Burns turns out better.

Fantastic.

[Jobyfox]

2 hours ago, boosmanana said:

Nobody said signing Jordan Ayew for £5mil was good value though did they? Not a single person as we all knew he was shit.

You articulated that in a far more eloquent way than I managed earlier 

[WorcesterBlue]

I have posted on here several times.

My last comment is that I would be very happy for Wes to stay with Town and play against the Mackems in just over 2 weeks and Manure the following match.

[Simmo86]

49 minutes ago, Fox85 said:

Going off his quite impressive injury record, I'd imagine it could take upto 2 weeks.

 

If he passes we might be fortunate to have him injury free for 50% of the season.

Bar his ACL, what injury record is that?

[wardyfox86]

8 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

The positive brigade and the negative nay sayers both have valid points, always have always will. I'm in the latter but wasn't always, the club have driven me here and it is what it is. I still get overly delusional every pre-season when our academy players are a breath of fresh air and then they either get neglected or show they aren't ready and i'm back in my box.

 

But in defence of folk mentally scarred by how appalling we've been ran in the last 3-4 years that get triggered when they see us operating similarly just a rung down, e.g your Coady and Winks at £60k + a week in the Championship at 3 times the average salary vs Chaplin, Cullen and Burns at £15-20k a week vs the average £6-8k and it's easy to swim in toxicity once again.

 

On the other hand, if we are going to right the wrongs or see any green shoots of recovery, it's not healthy to shout down and dismiss everything in the present day because the past was so bad. Maybe we are cutting our cloth more accordingly and there is a plan and an element of trust needs to be given back to our custodians of this football club. I find that hard to write right now, I must admit. I have no faith in them but I so badly want to. The club is up for sale and hopefully everyone is pulling in the same direction to secure a more prosperous future for us.

 

 

Surely the trust has to be earned, not merely given to them. And that's coming from somebody who is a fairly positive thinker, all things considered. 

 

Like you say, you WANT to have faith them but there is nothing tangible to cling to. They haven't earned it.

 

Then the negativity continues to fester, and lingers around the whole club likely working it's way onto the pitch.

 

So, do you merely cover up old wounds as an entire fan base, blindly trust and cheer hoping to steer the mood. Or do you continue in the negativity and hope the players can drag the club through it and give you something to cheer about.

 

I'm more of the former, but I understand why most aren't.