Is the squad good enough for L1?

[Muzzy_no7]

16 minutes ago, damolcfc said:

That's our problem.... we don't put crosses in , and give the attacker the service. 

His goals seem to come from his own perseverance (Riis) 

 

 

 

Put Alves in the 10/8.5 and Watson with Howell rotating on the flanks. Would create more chances.

[trooky]

4 hours ago, CrazyKopCorner said:

There is a team within this squad. 

 

We need a manager who puts players before lunatic tactics and can mould a team and team spirit over a few games. 

 

Easily good enough to stay up from what I've seen with the players we have already. 

 

Need to cut the obvious shite .... McCarthy, Thomas, Okoli, O'Hora, Reid, Cullen, Burns 

Add Lundstram to that list, his attitude against Posh for their 2nd goal was disgraceful.

 

Walking back from the half way line after giving the ball away is not what’s expected from a team leader. 

[Richmondfox]

4 hours ago, CrazyKopCorner said:

There is a team within this squad. 

 

We need a manager who puts players before lunatic tactics and can mould a team and team spirit over a few games. 

 

Easily good enough to stay up from what I've seen with the players we have already. 

 

Ned to cut the obvious shite .... McCarthy, Thomas, Okoli, O'Hora, Reid, Cullen, Burns 

Apart from the above list of horrors, we more than have enough to go on a run and turn things around. Use O’Hora as a cb not a play maker, also Burns could come back from this and be useful if his sole purpose is to keep smashing crosses into the box. 
 

The first pass out the back quickly to Page for him to drive us forwards and we look like a different team.  Drop the cowards back pass and reset when they get close to the box and take ownership. A loose ball and poor clearance in their box is more dangerous than recycling all the way back out our clown shoes keeper. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

16 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Fryatt who had flattered to deceive at a higher level.

Which of our strikers do you think will exceed 27 goals and 8 assists? 

Quote

Howard? We have Riis. 

 

And you think Riis will do "significantly better" than 13 goals and 14 assists? 

Quote

 

Oakley? Any better than Lundstram? Hmm.

 

Yes? Lundstrum isn't going to captain us to a league win, go half the season unbeaten, lose only once at home and do better than 8 goals, 6 assists is he? 

Quote

Andy King? Footballs moved on from him IMO. 

I'm not sure why you're talking about Andy King in 2026. This is about if 2008 Andy King (9 goals, 4 assists) is better than our current midfield options. 

[st albans fox]

Absolutely 100% is the answer to the question  - even allowing for the seagrave  ‘can’t be arsed to get fit’ effect 

 

‘playing Russell’s style’ gives a different answer 

 

 

[Muzzy_no7]

12 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Which of our strikers do you think will exceed 27 goals and 8 assists? 

And you think Riis will do "significantly better" than 13 goals and 14 assists? 

Yes? Lundstrum isn't going to captain us to a league win, go half the season unbeaten, lose only once at home and do better than 8 goals, 6 assists is he? 

I'm not sure why you're talking about Andy King in 2026. This is about if 2008 Andy King (9 goals, 4 assists) is better than our current midfield options. 

You’re missing the point.

 

Also I haven’t said they would do significantly better or are significantly better.

 

Going into that League one campaign Fryatt was very unproven and had flattered to deceive at championship level. So the point I’m making is at the start of this season it’s fair to say Riis would be viewed as better than Fryatt at the start of each league one campaign.

 

At this rate Riis will break the 20 goal mark even in this system so who knows how many he would score at this level in a system that gives him as many chances as Fryatt and Howard had in that Pearson 4-4-2.

 

Lundstrum? No he isn’t going to DO better than Oakley did. But, again you’re missing this point…it’s whether this team is good enough and has the quality..not what they are actually doing on the pitch which is vastly underperforming. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

 

2 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

You’re missing the point.

 

Also I haven’t said they would do significantly better or are significantly better.

The confusion may be because you literally said:

17 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Ok maybe not THE best but certainly up there and I don’t think the squad that Pearson had in this division was significantly better than this one. 

Which sounds like you're saying the current squad is as good or better than the Pearson 2008 one (and you did initially claim the current squad is the best the division has ever seen).

Quote

 

Going into that League one campaign Fryatt was very unproven and had flattered to deceive at championship level. So the point I’m making is at the start of this season it’s fair to say Riis would be viewed as better than Fryatt at the start of each league one campaign.

 

At this rate Riis will break the 20 goal mark even in this system so who knows how many he would score at this level in a system that gives him as many chances as Fryatt and Howard had in that Pearson 4-4-2.

 

Lundstrum? No he isn’t going to DO better than Oakley did. But, again you’re missing this point…it’s whether this team is good enough and has the quality..not what they are actually doing on the pitch which is vastly underperforming. 

 

Oh I totally agree that under Martin the current squad is massively underperforming. 

[Muzzy_no7]

Just now, Les-TA-Jon said:

 

The confusion may be because you literally said:

Which sounds like you're saying the current squad is as good or better than the Pearson 2008 one (and you did initially claim the current squad is the best the division has ever seen).

Oh I totally agree that under Martin the current squad is massively underperforming. 

Yeah which I took back but it’s certainly, as a squad up there with the strongest this league has seen. 
 

But like I’ve said earlier I don’t think the SQUAD Pearson had was significantly better than the one RM has right now and in August.

 

Ive said it a few times now but for example Hobbs and Morrison werent as ‘good’ going into that campaign as say Souttar and O’Hora would be seen as.

 

Same with Gilbert compared to JJ/Aluko.

 

Gradel and Cleverley too, were they seen as significantly better than Alves, Watson etc?

 

For me, the two players that were head and shoulders better than what we currently have would be Bruno Berner and Lloyd Dyer.

 

 

[Beachyboy]

Lundstrum is embarrassing for that 2nd goal looked at the effort to get back for the first goal from him compared to the 2nd.

[dmayne7]

I can tell that most people haven't had the misfortune to follow a lower league or have some kind of affiliation to one if this question is being asked. It's not even remotely close as to whether this squad is good enough for this level. If a division rival was signing a player from our team, they'd be absolutely buzzing about it.

 

Unfortunately, the lower you go down the leagues, the less the quality of the player matters. You'll get a team that is honking 1 year, and then the next, those same players get that team promoted. It's so much about confidence, playing in the right system, having a bit of luck, being in the right environment etc; things that are relevant at all levels but they're just heightened here because you don't get elite talents unless they're on the way up. And we're lucky enough to be crap in all these areas. We're yet again relying on superior individuals to bail us out and bludgeon out way past teams.

 

The themes in this thread that are spot on are the lack of pace (basically Alves the only one in an attacking sense) and that mentally we're a million miles off it (which is something most good players at this level have in spades)

[ParkerPen]

the problem we've had for years now is that the players individually are mostly good enough, but collectively are less than the  sum of the parts

 

for me this is mainly due to poor management, and an almost complete lack of leader types on the pitch. 

 

you can compare and contrast Pearson's LG1 side for example in individual ability, but there is no comparison in mentality.

[LeePhilpottsBaldSpot]

Good enough at playing football, nowhere near good enough at the physical or mental side of the game.

[dmayne7]

17 minutes ago, ParkerPen said:

the problem we've had for years now is that the players individually are mostly good enough, but collectively are less than the  sum of the parts

 

for me this is mainly due to poor management, and an almost complete lack of leader types on the pitch. 

 

you can compare and contrast Pearson's LG1 side for example in individual ability, but there is no comparison in mentality.

Exactly. And it's extremely worrying that the better players this year have probably been the younger ones; Joseph, Alves, Page. What does that say about where we are in terms of the leadership of those senior pros

[funkyrobot]

14 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

Keepers- jakub is about league 1 imo , others not promotion winning levels 

 

full backs - wouldn’t swap JJ for anyone tbh,  but the others I wouldn’t say are above the level,  I think you can get by with them if used well, I think aluko had tons of potential but he’s not there yet so hard to say he’s this level at this moment. 
 

cbs…  souttar, Nelson easily championship players. Kanga has promise… potentially the best we have 

 

okoli, not suited to England.ohora league 1 will be his level. 
 

cm- lundstrum proved already he’s a lower champ mid. Sammy and page both still learning but easily could play allowed champ football in the right sides.  

wing- Alves I think is a very good league 1 players… jury’s out if he has the consistent output to push in to be a championship player. Burns, as a squad player in this league should be okay, Doyle looked promising, Howell not ready for senior football yet. Watson … no idea but looks like  this would also be his level at best.  Cullen he’ll score plenty in league 1
 

Striker- riis likely the best striker in this division. Bristic … hadn’t troubled league 1 defenders so no he’s not this level yet based on what we’ve seen. 
 

all in all,  I’ve identified that we have an 11 either better than league one or at this level … it’s clearly no the ability of players that’s holding us back.  
 

it’s tactics, it’s attitude and it’s mentality. All 3 need drastic fixes. And we desperately need a left back who’s not luke Thomas 

 

 

 

 

2 key players you have listed as being good at this level won’t be contributing - Stolarcyck and Nelson are out for the season! Our goalkeeper options are catastrophic, as are our left back choices. Neither are good enough for this level. 

[CornwallFox]

4 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

You’re missing the point.

 

Also I haven’t said they would do significantly better or are significantly better.

 

Going into that League one campaign Fryatt was very unproven and had flattered to deceive at championship level. So the point I’m making is at the start of this season it’s fair to say Riis would be viewed as better than Fryatt at the start of each league one campaign.

 

At this rate Riis will break the 20 goal mark even in this system so who knows how many he would score at this level in a system that gives him as many chances as Fryatt and Howard had in that Pearson 4-4-2.

 

Lundstrum? No he isn’t going to DO better than Oakley did. But, again you’re missing this point…it’s whether this team is good enough and has the quality..not what they are actually doing on the pitch which is vastly underperforming. 

It's you missing your own point.

You keep talking about all this quality in the team.... It's all assumed quality, historical quality or pure supposition. 

 

None of them have shown that they currently have this magical quality that you assume. 

 

Most of them are struggling to do more than play 5 yard passes, and some of them can't even do that. 

 

It's almost offensive comparing a team that absolutely dominated the division against the current shower.

 

Maybe they will come good and start to show they really do take some quality between them, I've been more cheerleader than complainer until the last match, but I'm never a fan of any club's fans going on about the quality in their team while they're losing most games. I prefer looking at the here and now when talking about quality. 

 

Riis is showing himself to be our best forward signing for quite a few years. He's got a way to go to say he's better than Fryatt or Howard who smashed this division but he's the best chance of holding him up as a shining light. 

 

GK options are rubbish now. 

 

Defensive options are pretty rubbish. I like JJ. Souttar I had expected to be better than he is, he's been hugely disappointing. I think the style of play probably isn't helping as he's more Huth than Maldini though. So he does have quality in your terms. 

 

Chaplin, Lundstram, smallbone should have the quality for this division, but that's based on historic level of their careers. The first is injured, the last hasn't played, Lundstrum the jury is very much out and I don't see on what basis you're comparing with Oakley who performed throughout. At this moment Oakley very clearly showed greater quality than Lundstram is showing. 

 

On the wings. Well the Brighton lads Vs cleverly and gradel you could argue either way, all raw. Didn't gradel have a really good season? 

 

Anyway, I think you should live more in the present re our current squad is my point. Until they prove quality exists now, you simply cannot compare with our title winning team from before. And I'm sure plenty of other title winning teams down the years. It's a bit ridiculous to claim the team currently in 18th has their quality. 

[TheLittleBigMan]

This style of play sucks the life out of the game. Good enough players to compete at the top end but their confidence is shot. There's no spark of energy driving the game or the players when they have to pass the life out of everything they do. Not to mention it sucks the life out of the fans. 

[Fox92]

22 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

 

Riis is a proven championship striker, more than Fryatt was. Are you absolutely certain Fryatt would start over him? 

You're either overrating Riis or underrating Fryatt.

 

They are both very similar. Both have a best of 16 goals in a Championship season, Riis once scored 12 and Fryatt once scored 11. Then smaller numbers. Fryatt probably has the better record. (edit: I will say, going into our last League One campaign then I agree Fryatt's record wasn't great in the Championship but after he turned into a half decent Championship striker).

 

In the main, our League One squad under Pearson was better. Not sure why you're comparing. Plus they would absolutely run through walls for the club. This lot wouldn't. 

 

As for comparing Lundstram to Oakley. Good grief. Oakley spent most of his career in the top flight.

 

This set of players can't make 5 yard passes correctly. They don't track players back. They're nowhere near our 08/09 squad, proven already in our current league position.

Edited 9 hours ago by Fox92

[Muzzy_no7]

 

56 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

It's you missing your own point.

You keep talking about all this quality in the team.... It's all assumed quality, historical quality or pure supposition. 

 

None of them have shown that they currently have this magical quality that you assume. 

 

Most of them are struggling to do more than play 5 yard passes, and some of them can't even do that. 

 

It's almost offensive comparing a team that absolutely dominated the division against the current shower.

 

Maybe they will come good and start to show they really do take some quality between them, I've been more cheerleader than complainer until the last match, but I'm never a fan of any club's fans going on about the quality in their team while they're losing most games. I prefer looking at the here and now when talking about quality. 

 

Riis is showing himself to be our best forward signing for quite a few years. He's got a way to go to say he's better than Fryatt or Howard who smashed this division but he's the best chance of holding him up as a shining light. 

 

GK options are rubbish now. 

 

Defensive options are pretty rubbish. I like JJ. Souttar I had expected to be better than he is, he's been hugely disappointing. I think the style of play probably isn't helping as he's more Huth than Maldini though. So he does have quality in your terms. 

 

Chaplin, Lundstram, smallbone should have the quality for this division, but that's based on historic level of their careers. The first is injured, the last hasn't played, Lundstrum the jury is very much out and I don't see on what basis you're comparing with Oakley who performed throughout. At this moment Oakley very clearly showed greater quality than Lundstram is showing. 

 

On the wings. Well the Brighton lads Vs cleverly and gradel you could argue either way, all raw. Didn't gradel have a really good season? 

 

Anyway, I think you should live more in the present re our current squad is my point. Until they prove quality exists now, you simply cannot compare with our title winning team from before. And I'm sure plenty of other title winning teams down the years. It's a bit ridiculous to claim the team currently in 18th has their quality. 

Best we move on, I can’t be bothered to repeat what I’ve already said and I won’t lie I haven’t read all of your reply this time.

 

21 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

You're either overrating Riis or underrating Fryatt.

 

They are both very similar. Both have a best of 16 goals in a Championship season, Riis once scored 12 and Fryatt once scored 11. Then smaller numbers. Fryatt probably has the better record.

 

In the main, our League One squad under Pearson was better. Not sure why you're comparing. Plus they would absolutely run through walls for the club. This lot wouldn't. 

 

As for comparing Lundstram to Oakley. Good grief. Oakley spent most of his career in the top flight.

 

This set of players can't make 5 yard passes correctly. They don't track players back. They're nowhere near our 08/09 squad, proven already in our current league position.

I’ll concede Oakley vs Lundstram although Oakley wasn’t anywhere near his Soton days when with us. 
 

One final time with regard to Riis and Fryatt: At the start of this current campaign and at the start of Pearsons League one campaign I’d argue that going into said seasons Riis had more behind him than Fryatt did in terms of quality and likelihood of banging them in in said seasons. 
 

Fryatt subsequently then had an excellent campaign in that season. The point I’m making is with what we know about Riis we could assume he would be more than capable of getting 25+ this season despite only coming in late August.

 

Fryatt had 11/ 81 championships games. Riis had double the amount in his previous 81 championship games.
 

Riis also hasn’t had many opportunities or much crosses, cutbacks etc yet has still managed almost a goal a game already. 

[David Lowe]

5 hours ago, dmayne7 said:

I can tell that most people haven't had the misfortune to follow a lower league or have some kind of affiliation to one if this question is being asked. It's not even remotely close as to whether this squad is good enough for this level. If a division rival was signing a player from our team, they'd be absolutely buzzing about it.

 

Unfortunately, the lower you go down the leagues, the less the quality of the player matters. You'll get a team that is honking 1 year, and then the next, those same players get that team promoted. It's so much about confidence, playing in the right system, having a bit of luck, being in the right environment etc; things that are relevant at all levels but they're just heightened here because you don't get elite talents unless they're on the way up. And we're lucky enough to be crap in all these areas. We're yet again relying on superior individuals to bail us out and bludgeon out way past teams.

 

The themes in this thread that are spot on are the lack of pace (basically Alves the only one in an attacking sense) and that mentally we're a million miles off it (which is something most good players at this level have in spades)

I just don't know why you think divisional rivals would jump for any of these players. We have youngsters with promise but none of them have shown that they are good enough for League One yet. Long standing players such as Thomas, Okoli and BDR have shown that they are hopeless  at whatever level. Then there are the newcomers' I'm not sure that other teams would want many of them. McCarthy? Bristric? O'Hora? Cullen?

[Blueman1967]

We are good enough for this league, just change the playing style

[Tielemans63]

The modern game is so much about athleticism and power. We're 5 years behind. We have a distinct lack of pace, power and athleticism. We've got technical players but that's not enough anymore.

[dmayne7]

3 hours ago, David Lowe said:

I just don't know why you think divisional rivals would jump for any of these players. We have youngsters with promise but none of them have shown that they are good enough for League One yet. Long standing players such as Thomas, Okoli and BDR have shown that they are hopeless  at whatever level. Then there are the newcomers' I'm not sure that other teams would want many of them. McCarthy? Bristric? O'Hora? Cullen?

I think this shows you don't really understand what it's like for the majority of clubs in this league. They are not subjected to watching them weekly, and seeing what they actually are. From the outside it's much more about the reputation these players have. Majority of the clubs in this league are used to just getting players that have never made the grade at a higher level, and the idea of paying decent money is a completely alien concept.

 

Let's take some of the players you've listed:

 

Okoli - cost £13m and was in the Italy squad less than 2 years ago.

 

Thomas - started the FA Cup final as a teenager. 15 U21 caps. Nearly 200 games in the top 2 divisions.

 

BDCR - Majority of his career in the top 2 leagues. 150ish PL appearances.

 

McCarthy - Majority of career in PL. England international.

 

Bristric - Cost supposedly £2m.

 

Now, we know the real story on these players but when you are on the outside looking in, most of these players would be absolute marquee players for most clubs in this league

[cropstonfox]

How is the real story being created?

[iancognito]

McCarron was apparently "cooking" on September 1st. We were either wrong or the manager is just making decent players look silly with his inept style and coaching

[BillyFOX12]

This thread is a great example of the effect Russell Martin has on fanbases.