Has Martin turned the corner and we should support him?

[MPH]

9 hours ago, foxinsocks said:

A money could put wins together in this league.

I am worried about his personality.... it just worse when the results are bad

His personality? From what I understand he is a brilliant human being and his character is beyond contestation. You should be more concerned about wether he is a good manager or not…

[foxfanazer]

How about do whatever you want and let everyone else do whatever they want?

[Parafox]

One question from me... why did it take this long?

[Raspeir]

Yes we absolutely should support him. He's done something that nobody at the club has done in years - he's listened and he's acted, and done both whilst maintaining integrity and commitment. If that's not a solid example of the kind of leader and strong moral character we want at the head of the team then I don't know what is. 

 

He's adapted his style and changed the formation to give us what we've all been crying out for - strong committed direct football in a system that plays to the strengths of the players at the club. He's also radically (before the last 2 games) changed the culture at the club and started to bring a bit of teamwork and pride back into the club. We have a squad now that is packed with leaders and fighters. That's exactly what we've been crying out for and it deserves to be recognised.

 

Sure the two teams we beat are low in the league, but the principles of the shift are the key for me.

 

I'm all for criticism when it is valid, but I also firmly believe that credit is due when someone takes that criticism on board and adapts and changes in a way that yields positive outcomes. I just hope it's a 'new beginning' for him as a manager where he builds on these ideas and adapts his philosophies going forwards to be more pragmatic and flexible with the systems he plays. He and we have a solid opportunity to keep building on this new approach, I just hope he makes the most of it, and that we support him along the way.

[Craig]

5 minutes ago, Raspeir said:

Yes we absolutely should support him. He's done something that nobody at the club has done in years - he's listened and he's acted, and done both whilst maintaining integrity and commitment. If that's not a solid example of the kind of leader and strong moral character we want at the head of the team then I don't know what is. 

 

He's adapted his style and changed the formation to give us what we've all been crying out for - strong committed direct football in a system that plays to the strengths of the players at the club. He's also radically (before the last 2 games) changed the culture at the club and started to bring a bit of teamwork and pride back into the club. We have a squad now that is packed with leaders and fighters. That's exactly what we've been crying out for and it deserves to be recognised.

 

Sure the two teams we beat are low in the league, but the principles of the shift are the key for me.

 

I'm all for criticism when it is valid, but I also firmly believe that credit is due when someone takes that criticism on board and adapts and changes in a way that yields positive outcomes. I just hope it's a 'new beginning' for him as a manager where he builds on these ideas and adapts his philosophies going forwards to be more pragmatic and flexible with the systems he plays. He and we have a solid opportunity to keep building on this new approach, I just hope he makes the most of it, and that we support him along the way.

Whilst I agree with this to a degree, history suggests that he will revert to type at some point and be unsuccessful.

 

That said, we need to get out of this league and he is more than capable of that.

 

Tomorrow is a huge game for him. 

[cropstonfox]

10 minutes ago, Raspeir said:

Yes we absolutely should support him. He's done something that nobody at the club has done in years - he's listened and he's acted, and done both whilst maintaining integrity and commitment. If that's not a solid example of the kind of leader and strong moral character we want at the head of the team then I don't know what is. 

 

He's adapted his style and changed the formation to give us what we've all been crying out for - strong committed direct football in a system that plays to the strengths of the players at the club. He's also radically (before the last 2 games) changed the culture at the club and started to bring a bit of teamwork and pride back into the club. We have a squad now that is packed with leaders and fighters. That's exactly what we've been crying out for and it deserves to be recognised.

 

Sure the two teams we beat are low in the league, but the principles of the shift are the key for me.

 

I'm all for criticism when it is valid, but I also firmly believe that credit is due when someone takes that criticism on board and adapts and changes in a way that yields positive outcomes. I just hope it's a 'new beginning' for him as a manager where he builds on these ideas and adapts his philosophies going forwards to be more pragmatic and flexible with the systems he plays. He and we have a solid opportunity to keep building on this new approach, I just hope he makes the most of it, and that we support him along the way.

This is very positive and quite wholesome.

[MPH]

3 hours ago, Parafox said:

One question from me... why did it take this long?

 16 new players in, around 30 leaving, new manager, new DOF,  club up for sale… you weren’t really expecting a smooth start to the season were you?

[dmayne7]

2 hours ago, Raspeir said:

Yes we absolutely should support him. He's done something that nobody at the club has done in years - he's listened and he's acted, and done both whilst maintaining integrity and commitment. If that's not a solid example of the kind of leader and strong moral character we want at the head of the team then I don't know what is. 

 

He's adapted his style and changed the formation to give us what we've all been crying out for - strong committed direct football in a system that plays to the strengths of the players at the club. He's also radically (before the last 2 games) changed the culture at the club and started to bring a bit of teamwork and pride back into the club. We have a squad now that is packed with leaders and fighters. That's exactly what we've been crying out for and it deserves to be recognised.

 

Sure the two teams we beat are low in the league, but the principles of the shift are the key for me.

 

I'm all for criticism when it is valid, but I also firmly believe that credit is due when someone takes that criticism on board and adapts and changes in a way that yields positive outcomes. I just hope it's a 'new beginning' for him as a manager where he builds on these ideas and adapts his philosophies going forwards to be more pragmatic and flexible with the systems he plays. He and we have a solid opportunity to keep building on this new approach, I just hope he makes the most of it, and that we support him along the way.

This is very fair in some ways but other aspects of it are so over the top or beyond hyperbolic. For example, the squad is certainly not packed with leaders or fighters; we wouldn't have crumbled the amount of times we have this season.

 

And I think people are going way overboard with the tactical changes. He hasn't completely abandoned his philosophy, and nor should he. What has happened, is that he's shown a willingness to adapt and add a bit more variety to the play.

 

Let's be real, we should absolutely be battering this league with the players and resources at our disposal. That's not to say that Martin hasn't gone plenty of mitigating factors with how things have gone, but now's the time to start putting our foot down. Let's see how things look in 5/10 games. If we've won the majority of those, playing in a similar manner, I think we can give him some credit for changing but to do so after 2 wins against poor teams (and a very scrappy win at that), coming off the back of an embarrassing result, is beyond premature

[SafewayFox]

11 hours ago, Raspeir said:

Yes we absolutely should support him. He's done something that nobody at the club has done in years - he's listened and he's acted, and done both whilst maintaining integrity and commitment. If that's not a solid example of the kind of leader and strong moral character we want at the head of the team then I don't know what is. 

 

He's adapted his style and changed the formation to give us what we've all been crying out for - strong committed direct football in a system that plays to the strengths of the players at the club. He's also radically (before the last 2 games) changed the culture at the club and started to bring a bit of teamwork and pride back into the club. We have a squad now that is packed with leaders and fighters. That's exactly what we've been crying out for and it deserves to be recognised.

 

Sure the two teams we beat are low in the league, but the principles of the shift are the key for me.

 

I'm all for criticism when it is valid, but I also firmly believe that credit is due when someone takes that criticism on board and adapts and changes in a way that yields positive outcomes. I just hope it's a 'new beginning' for him as a manager where he builds on these ideas and adapts his philosophies going forwards to be more pragmatic and flexible with the systems he plays. He and we have a solid opportunity to keep building on this new approach, I just hope he makes the most of it, and that we support him along the way.

I feel bad being harsh on such a positive post but was it not potentially down to Martin knowing his managerial career would be over (in England anyway) if he got the sack here.

 

As someone else rightfully posted, he hasn’t brought in leaders at all, in fact he’s brought in his mates.

 

Ruud, Marti and King all spoke about the culture at the club but Martin had his mate in the press post an article about their “running fines”.

 

I want to see this formation/form be more consistent before going overboard with any praise for Martin.

[Raspeir]

8 hours ago, dmayne7 said:

This is very fair in some ways but other aspects of it are so over the top or beyond hyperbolic. For example, the squad is certainly not packed with leaders or fighters; we wouldn't have crumbled the amount of times we have this season.

 

And I think people are going way overboard with the tactical changes. He hasn't completely abandoned his philosophy, and nor should he. What has happened, is that he's shown a willingness to adapt and add a bit more variety to the play.

 

Let's be real, we should absolutely be battering this league with the players and resources at our disposal. That's not to say that Martin hasn't gone plenty of mitigating factors with how things have gone, but now's the time to start putting our foot down. Let's see how things look in 5/10 games. If we've won the majority of those, playing in a similar manner, I think we can give him some credit for changing but to do so after 2 wins against poor teams (and a very scrappy win at that), coming off the back of an embarrassing result, is beyond premature

There is nothing hyperbolic about the observation. I'm not throwing around meaningless superlatives. Did you not listen to the arrival interviews with Lundstram and O'Hora? We haven't had players with that kind of mentality here since Kasper left. 

 

The last few years we've had a default mentality of entitlement and low standards, from players that treated the club and fans with inherent disrespect and saw themselves above us both as a club and as people. Several managers have come in and they've all pandered to the squad. This is the first time we've seen real change. 

 

The honest truth is that I am 'being real' - the kind of 'we should batter this league' mentality is exactly the kind of entitled approach that had us relegated last season. The only way to achieve success is through commitment, drive, discipline and hard work. Pulling in the same direction together as a unit. Talent is important but it's last on the list in terms of what will make the defining difference.

 

Don't get me wrong. I was as unconvinced as anyone by the start we had, and I absolute hate the 'tippy tappy from the back' football - but I do believe that if the change of approach we've seen continues, then it deserves our support.

[Monk]

13 hours ago, Parafox said:

One question from me... why did it take this long?

The club has gone through more player turnover this summer surely than at any time in its modern history and many of those changes were on or after deadline day. 
 

And the other thing that coincides with our turnaround in form is Faes leaving! (And the formation change)

[Parafox]

14 minutes ago, Monk said:

The club has gone through more player turnover this summer surely than at any time in its modern history and many of those changes were on or after deadline day. 
 

And the other thing that coincides with our turnaround in form is Faes leaving! (And the formation change)

But we could all see for weeks, that the formation and tactics weren't working. Why couldn't he?

[PingCower]

 Today is a big day for RM.
 

If we can follow up two wins with an emphatic win against Luton today, I think the mood and momentum will decisively swing behind him, and deservedly so. If, on the other hand, he reverts to type and has us play leaky, go-slow possession football and lose, the pack will turn on him again and it will be difficult to come back from that, credibility wise. A draw will depend on the nature of the game, and actually even a loss where we play well and fight to the end will count in his favour. 
 

I’m all for the emphatic win and getting behind the manager.

[Parafox]

9 hours ago, MPH said:

 16 new players in, around 30 leaving, new manager, new DOF,  club up for sale… you weren’t really expecting a smooth start to the season were you?

That has nothing to do with Martin taking so long to make changes, though.

[brookfox]

Wake up next to Pinder, pop over to Luton, smash them and pick up 3pts, back home, down the pub, couple of pints, out for a curry, home and back to bed with Pinder.

 

If Carlsberg did Saturdays…

[Stevosevic]

Think today we find out if a genuine corner has been turned 

[dmayne7]

1 hour ago, Raspeir said:

There is nothing hyperbolic about the observation. I'm not throwing around meaningless superlatives. Did you not listen to the arrival interviews with Lundstram and O'Hora? We haven't had players with that kind of mentality here since Kasper left. 

 

The last few years we've had a default mentality of entitlement and low standards, from players that treated the club and fans with inherent disrespect and saw themselves above us both as a club and as people. Several managers have come in and they've all pandered to the squad. This is the first time we've seen real change. 

 

The honest truth is that I am 'being real' - the kind of 'we should batter this league' mentality is exactly the kind of entitled approach that had us relegated last season. The only way to achieve success is through commitment, drive, discipline and hard work. Pulling in the same direction together as a unit. Talent is important but it's last on the list in terms of what will make the defining difference.

 

Don't get me wrong. I was as unconvinced as anyone by the start we had, and I absolute hate the 'tippy tappy from the back' football - but I do believe that if the change of approach we've seen continues, then it deserves our support.

Did you ever hear Conor Coady talk when he first came in? Talk is cheap and it's incredibly naive to think that just because they gave good interviews that automatically, that means they're real leaders. Both have had some very shaky moments, and displays that's show the complete opposite. Since they've been in the team, we almost blew a 3 goal lead at Stockport, drew against a team with 10 men (for 70 mins) when leading, conceded 3 goals at home on the first half to one of the bottom clubs. None of those things happen if you've got a mentally strong team and that's much more tangible evidence that what somebody said. I'm hopeful that that these guys will bring a stronger mentality, but as you rightly point out and it's the 1 thing we all agree on, this team has been so mentally weak for years. 2 players aren't magically fixing that.

 

It's not entitled at all. I don't expect us to do that if we don't meet all the prerequisites that you listed (which I completely agree with). And I'd much rather have worse players but have an incredible team environment, work ethic, clear style of play etc. But this group of players is absolutely miles ahead of most teams in this league, it's what's between the ears and the way they are being asked to play that's the issue. I'm confident that I have watched more L1/L2 football that 99% of people here when I say that. 

 

If Martin can get it vaguely right, we *should* be storming this league. Then it's on the players to make sure they are applying themselves properly.

 

And I refer to my original point, it's been 2 games against crap sides, with only 1 convincing performance. Whether you meant it as absolutely as you'd written it, that is not a valid timeframe to suggest that's he's turned things around.

[dmayne7]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

But we could all see for weeks, that the formation and tactics weren't working. Why couldn't he?

In a slight defense of the formation, the recruitment (which he may be responsible for as well), has left us with very little flexibility in terms of systems. Will be interesting to see how this pans out in the long term as it's still lacking the balance out wide and in forward areas, but has obviously worked well so far

[Free Falling Foxes]

Perhaps not turned, but certainly beginning to turn I feel.

It is pleasant to see the team celebrating goals for a start, both amongst themselves and with the fans.

Something as basic as that has been missing. Remember Monga's goal last season? It might have even been his first. No other player went up to him to congratulate/celebrate. It had got that bad.

[foxile5]

14 hours ago, Raspeir said:

Yes we absolutely should support him. He's done something that nobody at the club has done in years - he's listened and he's acted, and done both whilst maintaining integrity and commitment. If that's not a solid example of the kind of leader and strong moral character we want at the head of the team then I don't know what is. 

 

He's adapted his style and changed the formation to give us what we've all been crying out for - strong committed direct football in a system that plays to the strengths of the players at the club. He's also radically (before the last 2 games) changed the culture at the club and started to bring a bit of teamwork and pride back into the club. We have a squad now that is packed with leaders and fighters. That's exactly what we've been crying out for and it deserves to be recognised.

 

Sure the two teams we beat are low in the league, but the principles of the shift are the key for me.

 

I'm all for criticism when it is valid, but I also firmly believe that credit is due when someone takes that criticism on board and adapts and changes in a way that yields positive outcomes. I just hope it's a 'new beginning' for him as a manager where he builds on these ideas and adapts his philosophies going forwards to be more pragmatic and flexible with the systems he plays. He and we have a solid opportunity to keep building on this new approach, I just hope he makes the most of it, and that we support him along the way.

This is too wholesome for me to argue against.

 

Out of interest - are you 'Stan Fan' from Planet football? 

[tinpot_fox]

Nevermind 2 games, when was the last time we won 3 games in a row, league and cup/league only?

 

Both Martin and the club in general have a big corner to turn in terms on results.

 

If we take out the Enzo season then we have an imbedded culture problem with getting results and getting over the line in games. If we can turn that corner and carry on down the road then it would be great for the club and the city.

 

 

inevitable moan: I’m not sure a lot of fans “deserve” the players and team to do well if they feel entitled to sit in silence during a match giving nothing to the atmosphere. Fkn leaving early when games were still in the balance a few years ago p!ssed me off too. Anyway…. Whatever…

[Raspeir]

10 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

Did you ever hear Conor Coady talk when he first came in? Talk is cheap and it's incredibly naive to think that just because they gave good interviews that automatically, that means they're real leaders. Both have had some very shaky moments, and displays that's show the complete opposite. Since they've been in the team, we almost blew a 3 goal lead at Stockport, drew against a team with 10 men (for 70 mins) when leading, conceded 3 goals at home on the first half to one of the bottom clubs. None of those things happen if you've got a mentally strong team and that's much more tangible evidence that what somebody said. I'm hopeful that that these guys will bring a stronger mentality, but as you rightly point out and it's the 1 thing we all agree on, this team has been so mentally weak for years. 2 players aren't magically fixing that.

 

It's not entitled at all. I don't expect us to do that if we don't meet all the prerequisites that you listed (which I completely agree with). And I'd much rather have worse players but have an incredible team environment, work ethic, clear style of play etc. But this group of players is absolutely miles ahead of most teams in this league, it's what's between the ears and the way they are being asked to play that's the issue. I'm confident that I have watched more L1/L2 football that 99% of people here when I say that. 

 

If Martin can get it vaguely right, we *should* be storming this league. Then it's on the players to make sure they are applying themselves properly.

 

And I refer to my original point, it's been 2 games against crap sides, with only 1 convincing performance. Whether you meant it as absolutely as you'd written it, that is not a valid timeframe to suggest that's he's turned things around.

 

Two players aren't going to fix that, but they will absolutely have an impact, and a manager and leadership team that changes the culture of entitlement, might. That is what I am hoping for. 

 

The key here is that we all essentially want the same thing, for the club to be successful and to play football that is fun and exciting to watch.

 

I agree with you that 2 games are barely a first step on that journey - but if we return to the original question 'should we support the team?' Then based on the change of tactical approach and the growing sense of professionalism and togetherness, then yes, we should. This is what we've been asking for, and we've been given it. We can be part of the solution if we as individuals and a collective choose to.

 

[Monk]

3 hours ago, Parafox said:

But we could all see for weeks, that the formation and tactics weren't working. Why couldn't he?

1. He probably felt he still needs to find his best 11, and best centre back pairing. I want to see him give players like Aluko a chance but as we have seen it doesn’t always work out. 
 

2. He’s built his managerial career on that setup, He played it for what, 8 league games which included time where he may have thought Souttar or Faes made us capable of playing 4 at the back. 
 

I don’t want to overly defend him - we have been desperately poor and Peterborough was bordering on unforgivable. Changing after 8 games with a brand new squad is not earth shatteringly slow.

[Jobyfox]

[Noahfence]

wait because we scraped past Doncaster Rovers at home and beat a league Two side people thought he’s turned it round? 
 

😂😂😂😂

Edited 22 hours ago by Noahfence