Legalise cannabis?

[ozleicester]

3 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

I used to smoke canabis a long time ago. The issue I had was the ‘strength’ always seemed to vary and I occasionally suffered big time from paranoia so ended up stopping.

 

I take a lot of painkillers for my health issues and I’m addicted to codeine if I’m honest. A lot of people I know who suffer with my condition smoke cannabis instead and it’s widely used to calm our symptoms.

 

If I could buy it legally knowing the strength wouldn’t freak me out then I’d buy it in a heartbeat and use it instead of prescription painkillers.

Grow your own mate, all clean no additives and as a pain killer it is amazing. Just need a carefully hidden spot in the greenhouse.

[The Guvnor]

2 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

It's a completely sensible point to make, but I must admit to being very sceptical that legalisation would be perceived by many people, especially of the younger generation, as an official endorsement of smoking cannabis being an OK thing to do.

 

Any argument that starts with 'well I don't know anybody that does (insert activity here)' is probably a shite one, but I don't think I've ever met, or known of, anybody who would be really up for smoking weed, if only it weren't illegal.

 

I keep reading that young people are increasingly turning their backs on alcohol, which may mean nothing at all, but suggests to me, at least, that their appetite for getting wasted is by no means insatiable. Those that want to get out of their tree, by whatever means, are doing it anyway.

 

Also, I really hope the piece of positive news your wife has had on the medical front is followed up by more of them

 

 

Cheers buddy regarding my wife's illness, it has been extremely difficult since her diagnosis in Jan.

[lifted*fox]

some seriously out-dated (and disproven) views in here regarding drug use. 

Edited 20 June 2018 by lifted*fox
edity edit

[Strokes]

Let adults make adult choices.

[Guest MattP]

Was debated on Question Time last night.

 

Tory MP was against it, said more research needed.

 

Labour MP totally against it (the shadow health minister (Jon Ashworth) so don't get your hopes up on them @Buce on this subject is my advice)

 

Spiked guest totally for it as people should be allowed to do what they want with own bodies.

 

Tim Martin against, said he banned smoking in his pubs first and was delighted with results.

 

Afua Hirsch slightly pro but said the idea it will fund the NHS isn't true as big corporations will be the ones who make money from it.

[breadandcheese]

Why is there the rush by people towards wanting to legalise recreational marijuana?  Why not wait 3-4 years and use some of the US states as case-studies to determine whether it's a good idea? Then we can have a proper costed study to determine the true benefits and costs in a practical study, rather than the theoretical arguments that are thrown around.

 

With regards medical marijuana, it's a whole different issue.  There should be immediate studies with a view to legalisation (subject to a prescription from a GP or consultant).  It seems crazy that the NHS can prescribe methadone and other opioids, but not this.

Edited 22 June 2018 by breadandcheese

[lifted*fox]

13 minutes ago, MattP said:

Was debated on Question Time last night.

 

It wasn't debated at all.

 

I saw that section and it was literally 10 minutes of people who have no idea of what they're talking about spitting out the same old tired, unfounded rubbish. 

 

Nobody in that 'debate' on either side put forward anything close to a proper argument.

 

Embarrassing and it's why we're a long way behind and will remind a long way behind the rest of the world on drug issues.

 

And then people like yourself lap it up and repeat it as if it's worthwhile information. It makes me ****ing furious tbh.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, lifted*fox said:

 

It wasn't debated at all.

 

I saw that section and it was literally 10 minutes of people who have no idea of what they're talking about spitting out the same old tired, unfounded rubbish. 

 

Nobody in that 'debate' on either side put forward anything close to a proper argument.

 

Embarrassing and it's why we're a long way behind and will remind a long way behind the rest of the world on drug issues.

 

And then people like yourself lap it up and repeat it as if it's worthwhile information. It makes me ****ing furious tbh.

It was debated, that's the idea of the show. You just didn't like the opinions that were given. Big difference. 

 

It is worthwhile information as well as two of those people on the panel are people who will actually be deciding whether to legalise it or not if legislation ever comes forward to do so, not to mention one of those doing so is actually the shadow health minister. 

[Jattdogg]

Just move here to canada

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4715920

[lifted*fox]

you're wrong matt, I'm sorry.

 

a panel of people who know nothing about the subject talking shit on it for 5 minutes isn't a proper debate. 

 

not a single person on that panel said anything that someone who understands the subject would take seriously.

 

yet you've got a nation full of idiots sat in front of QT who will take those bullshit 'opinions' - because they were baseless opinions, not facts, as gospel and it further damages the chances of making progress like the countries who are taking a progressive approach to the 'war on drugs'. 

 

even the idiot in the audience shouting off about legalising it does **** ALL to help the cause.

 

NOBODY on that panel should have anything to do with legalising it. 

 

it should be assessed and advised by a panel of doctors, scientists and drug specialists - but oh wait, the government disbanded that ****ing panel because they didn't like what they were being told.

 

absolute joke when you have someone like the chairman of weatherspoons chucking his 2 cents in on something like that - laughing and joking about it and spreading more misinformation.

[ealingfox]

Bit of a stretch calling anything on QT these days a debate to be honest.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Was debated on Question Time last night.

 

Tory MP was against it, said more research needed.

 

Labour MP totally against it (the shadow health minister (Jon Ashworth) so don't get your hopes up on them @Buce on this subject is my advice)

 

Spiked guest totally for it as people should be allowed to do what they want with own bodies.

 

Tim Martin against, said he banned smoking in his pubs first and was delighted with results.

 

Afua Hirsch slightly pro but said the idea it will fund the NHS isn't true as big corporations will be the ones who make money from it.

 

I have no illusions on that score, Matt.

 

On 19/06/2018 at 09:31, Buce said:

 

I disagree.

 

It would be political suicide for either party, I suspect, because as a nation we are quite conservative (lower-case 'c'), but more so for the Tories because of who their voter base is.

 

[Guest]

haven't read this thread so apologies if already posted but thought it might be of interest to some:

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/marijuana-weed-or-alcohol-health-impact-science-evidence-2018

 

 

[lifted*fox]

32 minutes ago, FIF said:

haven't read this thread so apologies if already posted but thought it might be of interest to some:

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/marijuana-weed-or-alcohol-health-impact-science-evidence-2018

 

But who needs facts, right? 

 

Makes me laugh, all these people saying 'let's wait and see the evidence come in' - the evidence is in. People have been smoking weed since the 70's and it causes no deaths and the occasional mental health issue which is most likely down to the user already being unstable or susceptible to issues anyway.

 

Countries that are legalising are taking in huge tax profits which are being spent on healthcare, drug education and rehabilitation for hard drugs. Crime rates are falling and the number of people dependant on alcohol and painkillers are lower than they've even been. 

 

People painting the picture about this new extra-strong super skunk are falsifying the information. Yes, certain strains are bred to be hardcore with high THC % but in legal countries there are a range of strains available to suit every user and help with different aches / pains and mental issues like anxiety and depression. 

 

If we had access to legal strains users would be able to choose a strength of weed that suits them. 

 

It's scaremongering from politicians because they know that legalising weed will reduce people's dependency on big pharma products and we all know that big pharma line the pockets of our crooked government. ****ing sickening. 

Edited 22 June 2018 by lifted*fox

[Guest MattP]

2 hours ago, lifted*fox said:

you're wrong matt, I'm sorry.

 

a panel of people who know nothing about the subject talking shit on it for 5 minutes isn't a proper debate.  

 

not a single person on that panel said anything that someone who understands the subject would take seriously.

 

yet you've got a nation full of idiots sat in front of QT who will take those bullshit 'opinions' - because they were baseless opinions, not facts, as gospel and it further damages the chances of making progress like the countries who are taking a progressive approach to the 'war on drugs'. 

 

even the idiot in the audience shouting off about legalising it does **** ALL to help the cause.

 

NOBODY on that panel should have anything to do with legalising it. 

 

it should be assessed and advised by a panel of doctors, scientists and drug specialists - but oh wait, the government disbanded that ****ing panel because they didn't like what they were being told.

 

absolute joke when you have someone like the chairman of weatherspoons chucking his 2 cents in on something like that - laughing and joking about it and spreading more misinformation.

If the Labour party health secretary doesn't know anything about it then we have a big problem, he's the next potential cabinet minister and that would pretty much be under his remit. Different debate altogether but I'd dispute that we have ever had a "war on drugs" - I often see it smoked openly in public, that can hardly be described as society having a war on it in my opinion, I'd argue countries that employ a "war on drugs" are ones like the UAE and Saudi Arabia etc.

 

We agree on one thing though, it should be a wide range of doctors and scientists producing the evidence that guides parliament.

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, FIF said:

haven't read this thread so apologies if already posted but thought it might be of interest to some:

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/marijuana-weed-or-alcohol-health-impact-science-evidence-2018

Why does this argument always come back to this? It's a total red herring.

 

As far as I can see on here, or in public life, no one debates that alcohol is more harmful than cannabis and if it hadn't been part of the culture of the nation for centuries and turned up over night it would be banned instantly.

[Steven]

1 hour ago, lifted*fox said:

 

But who needs facts, right? 

Quite. We can rely on moral panic to determine serious health and criminal issues. 

[Steven]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

Why does this argument always come back to this? It's a total red herring.

 

As far as I can see on here, or in public life, no one debates that alcohol is more harmful than cannabis and if it hadn't been part of the culture of the nation for centuries and turned up over night it would be banned instantly.

Which suggests that there is no proper debate about the legalisation of cannabis.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Steven said:

Which suggests that there is no proper debate about the legalisation of cannabis.

Why? I'm sorry but the argument for legalisation has to be a better than "that's worse than this" so make this legal.

[Steven]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

Why? I'm sorry but the argument for legalisation has to be a better than "that's worse than this" so make this legal.

Then why is cannabis illegal? To satisfy moral panic over reefer madness?

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, MattP said:

Why? I'm sorry but the argument for legalisation has to be a better than "that's worse than this" so make this legal.

Why does it? Its perfectly valid.

[James.]

I actually think people seriously underestimate the potential damage that weed can do, both physically and mentally. By the very nature of it being thought of as a "lesser" drug people do not give it the respect they should and assume they can smoke it without any lasting side effects.

 

I have seen first hand the damage it can do. It is not an exaggeration to say that in some cases it has ruined lives. However, unlike Matt, who uses this first hand evidence as a rationale for not legalising I think the opposite. Until we take control of the potency, improve education and increase awareness I think the tendency for it to do harm will remain higher than it should be.

 

Much of the argument against also assumes that the legal status of the drug has an impact on users decision to smoke it. I would argue that now more than ever this is no longer the case.

 

And fundamentally for me is the fact that the government have no right to tell people what they can or can't put into their bodies, as long as it does no harm to others.

 

Drug policy will be looked back on as one of the biggest global failures of our time. The only encouraging thing is that an increasing number of countries are finally listening to experts and evidence and adopting a more progressive approach. Hopefully it continues.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Why does this argument always come back to this? It's a total red herring.

 

As far as I can see on here, or in public life, no one debates that alcohol is more harmful than cannabis and if it hadn't been part of the culture of the nation for centuries and turned up over night it would be banned instantly.

 

You're wrong - alcohol consumption is completely socially acceptable in a way that cannabis isn't.

 

In the unlikely event that England win the World Cup, it will be perfectly ok for any of the players to be quoted saying they'll be "having a few drinks tonight..." (nudge, nudge) and the interviewer will laugh along with it. If one said, "Yeah, I'll be chilling with a spliff tonight", he would be castigated by all and sundry.

[Samilktray]

Can't believe it's 2018 and I still can't go for a spliff with some friends and grab a can of grape Fanta after 

[lifted*fox]

44 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Can't believe it's 2018 and I still can't go for a spliff with some friends and grab a can of grape Fanta after 

 

it's just ridiculous. 

 

have you been to amsterdam?

 

for those who haven't - there is zero negative difference in their city / society because of legal cannabis. they might argue the amount of weed tourism but that'll slow down as the rest of the world wakes up and replicates their model.  

 

coffee-shops live comfortably alongside bars and stoned people sit quietly in the windows drinking coke and coffee. 

 

there aren't throngs of zombie like wasters wandering the streets, losing their minds and acting strangely.

 

instead people smoke spliffs and then take the day to wonder around the cities awesome museums and parks. 

 

people just go about their normal business, quietly, respectfully.

 

it's just like anywhere else - except I'd argue more mellow. ****, I'd argue that I've never heard so much as a raised voice in any coffee-shop over there.

 

cannabis - no matter which was you look at it is a FAR less harmful drug than alcohol, not just to the user but to society as a whole. it's massively relevant because if we're going to continue to allow consumption of alcohol, in spite of the facts; the deaths, the illness, the strain on the NHS then how can you continue to ban a safer alternative, proven to have medicinal qualities that will create a huge industry, huge tax income and lower crime rates at the same time? 

 

people in progressive countries will look at us continuing to piss in the wind and wonder what the **** on earth we're doing. 

 

it's like giving everyone guns but saying 'oh no, you can't have pencils because you might stab someone with them'.