seenitall Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 What's your point? Yes it's a shame we haven't got Kompany and Vidic at the back, but Morgan is a very good championship CB. (He was in the Championship Team Of The Year one season ago for a reason) At the risk of upsetting the Nige massive, Morgan is a donkey and part of the 'building a team fit for mid table/play off hopefuls' - I hope it works but it probably won't - we should be attracting the best names we can and have a manager that can handle them - that's what we should do when we have investment - if it doesn't work at the first attempt, keep going, don't go backwards - I believe we are going backwards but will be delighted if Nige turns out to be a Rogers or McDermott - didn't work out for him at Hull in one and a half seasons and with his choice of players and probably won't work here - just an opinion - you can blow smoke up both their arses all day for me but I have a view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterborofox Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 At the risk of upsetting the Nige massive, Morgan is a donkey and part of the 'building a team fit for mid table/play off hopefuls' - I hope it works but it probably won't - we should be attracting the best names we can and have a manager that can handle them - that's what we should do when we have investment - if it doesn't work at the first attempt, keep going, don't go backwards - I believe we are going backwards but will be delighted if Nige turns out to be a Rogers or McDermott - didn't work out for him at Hull in one and a half seasons and with his choice of players and probably won't work here - just an opinion - you can blow smoke up both their arses all day for me but I have a view Have you heard yourself? I'd rather have this 'donkey' who has been in Championship team of the year before, played in good a Championship side and actualyl knows how to defend properly. Our best defender by far, I'd rather have Morgan than Bamba, who wasnt as good, but got praised just for running with the ball. I'd take clean sheets over technique any day. And what are you on about when you say it didnt work for NP at Hull? You mean the person who had to get rid of all their deadwood and bring in young exciting players, he made a team who finished just shy of the PO's. They would have made the PO's under him I am sure, they were above us when the Messiah Sven was rightly sacked. You have a view, but its total bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 At the risk of upsetting the Nige massive, Morgan is a donkey and part of the 'building a team fit for mid table/play off hopefuls' - I hope it works but it probably won't - we should be attracting the best names we can and have a manager that can handle them - that's what we should do when we have investment - if it doesn't work at the first attempt, keep going, don't go backwards - I believe we are going backwards but will be delighted if Nige turns out to be a Rogers or McDermott - didn't work out for him at Hull in one and a half seasons and with his choice of players and probably won't work here - just an opinion - you can blow smoke up both their arses all day for me but I have a view What? Like we did last season? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 What? Like we did last season? lol hello Col - thought you'd disagree - we seem to building a weaker team on paper, which is fine if you have a great manager who can motivate average players to play above their strength - jury out on this for NP, as he so far seems to be able to get the worst out of good players - read the post though - if at first it doesn't succeed and providing our illustrious and decent owners handled the whole process well (!!) then surely they should keep trying to get us promoted, ideally with squad that needs enhancing in the Premier not one that would require a rebuild from scratch - this method of relying on a lucky punt with an unproven manager and lots of old knackered players who looked OK in League 1 three years ago and a few big club cast offs may even work - but building for a future - don't think so. As even big name clubs are finding out, if you show lack of ambition then the few quality players you do have/cultivate will want out at the first chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 At the risk of upsetting the Nige massive, Morgan is a donkey and part of the 'building a team fit for mid table/play off hopefuls' - I hope it works but it probably won't - we should be attracting the best names we can and have a manager that can handle them - that's what we should do when we have investment - if it doesn't work at the first attempt, keep going, don't go backwards - I believe we are going backwards but will be delighted if Nige turns out to be a Rogers or McDermott - didn't work out for him at Hull in one and a half seasons and with his choice of players and probably won't work here - just an opinion - you can blow smoke up both their arses all day for me but I have a view This is a wind up ? isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 hello Col - thought you'd disagree - we seem to building a weaker team on paper, which is fine if you have a great manager who can motivate average players to play above their strength - jury out on this for NP, as he so far seems to be able to get the worst out of good players - read the post though - if at first it doesn't succeed and providing our illustrious and decent owners handled the whole process well (!!) then surely they should keep trying to get us promoted, ideally with squad that needs enhancing in the Premier not one that would require a rebuild from scratch - this method of relying on a lucky punt with an unproven manager and lots of old knackered players who looked OK in League 1 three years ago and a few big club cast offs may even work - but building for a future - don't think so. As even big name clubs are finding out, if you show lack of ambition then the few quality players you do have/cultivate will want out at the first chance We always differ on this one mate. We always have. Sven HAD his chance last season.. A big name manager, freely spending, bringing in big names in relative terms. This went tits up. It may have worked if Sven had stayed on, who knows? Personally I don't think so. Allegedly Sven had lost the dressing room, and the game at home to Millwall was truly a shocker. A real horror show. I would rather have a manager with discipline, a preference for bringing through younger players and ability to motivate the more average ones to play above themselves. I don't agree with you at all about Morgan. I think he looks solid and seems to have a great attitude about him. Where I do agree with you is that that the squad needs to strengthen with at least two, really good players at this level. Generally quality shows through and, when added to a great work ethic, usually brings dividends. If we start next season with a midfield of Lloyd Dyer, King, Danns and Gally, I'll think we haven't moved on much. If we start the season with a tougher midfield ball winner and a flying winger, especially on the right hand side, I'll be more hopeful. Anyway, cheers for replying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raw Dykes Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 At the risk of upsetting the Nige massive, Morgan is a donkey and part of the 'building a team fit for mid table/play off hopefuls' - I hope it works but it probably won't - we should be attracting the best names we can and have a manager that can handle them - This sums your opinion up for me. You only care about how famous the players or managers we have are, regardless of their ability. You've seen what happened when the owners shared that view, and yet you choose to ignore the results of what happened on the pitch and on the league table. Sven spunked millions up the wall on big names who failed to get us into the top 6 for one second, and Pearson got us a penalty shoot-out away from a playoff final on a relative shoestring, but you still would much rather see more of the former. Why do you kid yourself so much? that's what we should do when we have investment - if it doesn't work at the first attempt, keep going, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein don't go backwards - I believe we are going backwards You say backwards like it's necessarily a bad thing. Is it bad to go backwards to a time when we were better than we were last season? You might say it would be going backwards to get O'Neill back, but I'd be all for that, as I suspect most of us would be. Going back to sign the last decent manager we had is not a bad thing at all. but will be delighted if Nige turns out to be a Rogers or McDermott - Look at the clubs that have been the best in this division over the past two seasons - Norwich, Swansea, Southampton and Reading. There were no big name managers or players involved at any of them. There may be a couple of names that have become famous since, but that is only because of their recent success. I think our current approach is much more like the one these teams had than the Sousa/Sven one was, and I can't see why you want us to change it back. didn't work out for him at Hull in one and a half seasons and with his choice of players and probably won't work here - just an opinion - you can blow smoke up both their arses all day for me but I have a view When you say it didn't work out for Pearson at Hull, what do you mean? Why do you think they are so bitter now? Why do you think they keep banging on about not selling us the players that Pearson signed for them? Do you think it's because they think those players are shit? I know you've got an opinion, but it's total nonsense, and I have to point that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenny_fox Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 At the risk of upsetting the Nige massive, Morgan is a donkey and part of the 'building a team fit for mid table/play off hopefuls' - I hope it works but it probably won't - we should be attracting the best names we can and have a manager that can handle them - that's what we should do when we have investment - if it doesn't work at the first attempt, keep going, don't go backwards - I believe we are going backwards but will be delighted if Nige turns out to be a Rogers or McDermott - didn't work out for him at Hull in one and a half seasons and with his choice of players and probably won't work here - just an opinion - you can blow smoke up both their arses all day for me but I have a view There is so many points wrong with that post. Morgan was by far our best defender when he came here. He's the sort of rock solid defender we have lacked in recent times, and I for one am delighted we've got him. 'Attracting the best names that we can'...... Like Matt Mills? Enough said on that point. 'Having a manager that can handle them'... I would much rather have a complete unknown player that wants to play football and not just earn cash, and as far as i'm concerned players that need 'managing' to that extent should not be at our club. Also from my point of view Nigel Pearson was a success at Hull, he done to them exactly what needs to be done here. Cleared out all the crap and Egotistical 'stars', and turned them into a young hungry side that was more than capable of going for promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxoffderby Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 I really don't get some people on here. Bamba was slated because he played from the back, Mills was inconsistent and now Morgan is a donkey. What do people want a Ronald Keoman\Franz Beckenbauer crossed with Steve Walsh's guts and the speed of Des Walker? Morgan is very good CB but needs a quick player alongside him. He is our best CB at the moment. Get a grip people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 There is so many points wrong with that post. Morgan was by far our best defender when he came here. He's the sort of rock solid defender we have lacked in recent times, and I for one am delighted we've got him. 'Attracting the best names that we can'...... Like Matt Mills? Enough said on that point. 'Having a manager that can handle them'... I would much rather have a complete unknown player that wants to play football and not just earn cash, and as far as i'm concerned players that need 'managing' to that extent should not be at our club. Also from my point of view Nigel Pearson was a success at Hull, he done to them exactly what needs to be done here. Cleared out all the crap and Egotistical 'stars', and turned them into a young hungry side that was more than capable of going for promotion. And so much wrong with this one too - rock solid defender - like a rock usually=donkey and unfit for purpose against proper attackers Attracting the best names we can - but if you read properly you would see that you also need a manager to be able to handle them - ooops Your point of view is also wrong unless success is taking a newly relegated Premier league team and turning them into mid table Championship dullards who despite having potential 'on paper' were actually shite and have gone nowhere since - if that is what young hungry sides do then that is my point - its bollocks As for having unknown players - that's what we have now - watch the good ones leave in droves (if there are any good ones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 This sums your opinion up for me. You only care about how famous the players or managers we have are, regardless of their ability. You've seen what happened when the owners shared that view, and yet you choose to ignore the results of what happened on the pitch and on the league table. Sven spunked millions up the wall on big names who failed to get us into the top 6 for one second, and Pearson got us a penalty shoot-out away from a playoff final on a relative shoestring, but you still would much rather see more of the former. Why do you kid yourself so much? "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein You say backwards like it's necessarily a bad thing. Is it bad to go backwards to a time when we were better than we were last season? You might say it would be going backwards to get O'Neill back, but I'd be all for that, as I suspect most of us would be. Going back to sign the last decent manager we had is not a bad thing at all. Look at the clubs that have been the best in this division over the past two seasons - Norwich, Swansea, Southampton and Reading. There were no big name managers or players involved at any of them. There may be a couple of names that have become famous since, but that is only because of their recent success. I think our current approach is much more like the one these teams had than the Sousa/Sven one was, and I can't see why you want us to change it back. When you say it didn't work out for Pearson at Hull, what do you mean? Why do you think they are so bitter now? Why do you think they keep banging on about not selling us the players that Pearson signed for them? Do you think it's because they think those players are shit? I know you've got an opinion, but it's total nonsense, and I have to point that out. Course it is - my opinion is always wrong - then again, in your world Hull are a great side, Nige is the next Rogers/McDermott etc and going backwards is a good thing - go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Course it is - my opinion is always wrong - then again, in your world Hull are a great side, Nige is the next Rogers/McDermott etc and going backwards is a good thing - go figure Crikey! Give him at least the same chance that was afforded Sven! It would be better to be having this conversation first in a few weeks time, then again after 10 games or so. You'll either be right or wrong... But making such suggestions NOW comes across as either naive or wumming. With you, I'm still never sure which it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenny_fox Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 And so much wrong with this one too - rock solid defender - like a rock usually=donkey and unfit for purpose against proper attackers Attracting the best names we can - but if you read properly you would see that you also need a manager to be able to handle them - ooops Your point of view is also wrong unless success is taking a newly relegated Premier league team and turning them into mid table Championship dullards who despite having potential 'on paper' were actually shite and have gone nowhere since - if that is what young hungry sides do then that is my point - its bollocks As for having unknown players - that's what we have now - watch the good ones leave in droves (if there are any good ones) Tell me a defender who you think we should be buying? A manager who could manage big players. Enter sven goran eriksson - Oooops The newly relegated premiership team that had to drasticly reduce the wage bill or risk going under (ala Portsmouth), if you compare the teams i'd say Pearson did pretty well there. And you said it yourself, 'if there are any good ones'. Thats what £15 million gets you is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 We always differ on this one mate. We always have. Sven HAD his chance last season.. A big name manager, freely spending, bringing in big names in relative terms. This went tits up. It may have worked if Sven had stayed on, who knows? Personally I don't think so. Allegedly Sven had lost the dressing room, and the game at home to Millwall was truly a shocker. A real horror show. I would rather have a manager with discipline, a preference for bringing through younger players and ability to motivate the more average ones to play above themselves. I don't agree with you at all about Morgan. I think he looks solid and seems to have a great attitude about him. Where I do agree with you is that that the squad needs to strengthen with at least two, really good players at this level. Generally quality shows through and, when added to a great work ethic, usually brings dividends. If we start next season with a midfield of Lloyd Dyer, King, Danns and Gally, I'll think we haven't moved on much. If we start the season with a tougher midfield ball winner and a flying winger, especially on the right hand side, I'll be more hopeful. Anyway, cheers for replying. Keeping those aforementioned players on suggest they are part of the masterplan - so Sven had to go - why replace him with an unproven manager at this level - a decent name should have been found who could have taken the team that still had a shout at automatic promotion at that point and told to get on with it - instead we have taken a mighty step backwards, which the second half of the season showed us - Gally ducking every tackle, Dyer with one run a game, Wellens like an old crock Steve Howard being brought on to save us..... if you are paying a million a year for a manager you may as well have one who can handle the job - so far, jury out on NP but bringing in meek players and keeping your yes men is not exciting to me Not naive but spectacularly unimpressed with the close season dealings which were going to be the turning point, so far Thanks for replying to me also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfanazer Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Keeping those aforementioned players on suggest they are part of the masterplan - so Sven had to go - why replace him with an unproven manager at this level - a decent name should have been found who could have taken the team that still had a shout at automatic promotion at that point and told to get on with it - instead we have taken a mighty step backwards, which the second half of the season showed us - Gally ducking every tackle, Dyer with one run a game, Wellens like an old crock Steve Howard being brought on to save us..... if you are paying a million a year for a manager you may as well have one who can handle the job - so far, jury out on NP but bringing in meek players and keeping your yes men is not exciting to me Thanks for replying to me also I think it's unfair to judge any manager coming in for half a season. This is the season he should be judged on and if it doesn't go well he'll almost certainly be sacked to bring in a "big name" manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 At the risk of upsetting the Nige massive, Morgan is a donkey and part of the 'building a team fit for mid table/play off hopefuls' - I hope it works but it probably won't - we should be attracting the best names we can and have a manager that can handle them - that's what we should do when we have investment - if it doesn't work at the first attempt, keep going, don't go backwards - I believe we are going backwards but will be delighted if Nige turns out to be a Rogers or McDermott - didn't work out for him at Hull in one and a half seasons and with his choice of players and probably won't work here - just an opinion - you can blow smoke up both their arses all day for me but I have a view Well that donkey has done more in this league than SSL, Babma and Mills have combined. A defender from Hibs, a defender from relegated Preston and a captain who failed in the playoffs and was disliked by his own fans. If Morgan is a Donkey I dread to think what you thought of those three when they signed... oh that's right Sven signed them so they are all great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Attracting the best names we can - but if you read properly you would see that you also need a manager to be able to handle them - ooops Or you get a manager that signs players also based on their personalities, rather than just their names. Thus stopping you ending up with a squad full of bell ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenny_fox Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Well that donkey has done more in this league than SSL, Babma and Mills have combined. A defender from Hibs, a defender from relegated Preston and a captain who failed in the playoffs and was disliked by his own fans. If Morgan is a Donkey I dread to think what you thought of those three when they signed... oh that's right Sven signed them so they are all great. This!!! The bias towards Svens signing in defence is shocking, at defending they were all pretty crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raw Dykes Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Course it is - my opinion is always wrong - then again, in your world Hull are a great side, Nige is the next Rogers/McDermott etc and going backwards is a good thing - go figure When you say things that are demonstrably bollocks, I will say so. If that happens to be always, then so be it. When did I ever say Hull were even a good side? I didn't. I asked for you to back up the claim that Pearson failed there, when in reality he didn't. I'll ask again, how do you explain the fact that Hull have a real problem with us and NP now? Do you think Hull hate us because we paid them to take their failure of a manager off their hands? When did I say Pearson is the next Rogers or McDermott? I never did. I said his approach to management is more similar to theirs than Sven's, which is true. Pearson can build a good Championship side, Sven couldn't, even though he spent a fortune trying to. If things are getting worse, then going backwards is good. If your once successful business is starting to fall apart, you will want to go backwards. If you're falling down a cliff to certain death, then you will want to go backwards. If you've built a good team on a sensible budget, then got rid of the manager and blown a fortune on an expensive clueless manager as his replacement who wastes millions on overrated big name players who massively underperform and turn the club into a joke, what do you want to do? Go forwards, and just hope against hope that it will sort itself out, or go backwards and get the old manager back? It depends what you mean by going backwards. If you mean the team and results are getting worse like they did after Pearson was sacked/allowed to leave, then what have you got to back this up with? If you mean we're going backwards by getting a former manager back, then why is it a bad thing, if that manager did a far, far better job than any we've had since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 When you say things that are demonstrably bollocks, I will say so. If that happens to be always, then so be it. When did I ever say Hull were even a good side? I didn't. I asked for you to back up the claim that Pearson failed there, when in reality he didn't. I'll ask again, how do you explain the fact that Hull have a real problem with us and NP now? Do you think Hull hate us because we paid them to take their failure of a manager off their hands? When did I say Pearson is the next Rogers or McDermott? I never did. I said his approach to management is more similar to theirs than Sven's, which is true. Pearson can build a good Championship side, Sven couldn't, even though he spent a fortune trying to. If things are getting worse, then going backwards is good. If your once successful business is starting to fall apart, you will want to go backwards. If you're falling down a cliff to certain death, then you will want to go backwards. If you've built a good team on a sensible budget, then got rid of the manager and blown a fortune on an expensive clueless manager as his replacement who wastes millions on overrated big name players who massively underperform and turn the club into a joke, what do you want to do? Go forwards, and just hope against hope that it will sort itself out, or go backwards and get the old manager back? It depends what you mean by going backwards. If you mean the team and results are getting worse like they did after Pearson was sacked/allowed to leave, then what have you got to back this up with? If you mean we're going backwards by getting a former manager back, then why is it a bad thing, if that manager did a far, far better job than any we've had since? Let's talk again in October eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Seenitall if you say 'name' one more time I am going to have to kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Walsh5 Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Crikey! Give him at least the same chance that was afforded Sven! It would be better to be having this conversation first in a few weeks time, then again after 10 games or so. You'll either be right or wrong... But making such suggestions NOW comes across as either naive or wumming. With you, I'm still never sure which it is? So if we are in 13th position 2 points of the playoffs in October would you sack Pearson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Taylor, Adams, Sousa, Sven. Plenty of our managers leave in October, so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Let's talk again in October eh? Yes, but not until. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfanazer Posted 6 July 2012 Share Posted 6 July 2012 Yes, but not until. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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