Safe Standing - Support the Early Day motion

[Ted Maul]

I really hope we're on board with this. It will hopefully move quickly now that the ball appears to be rolling- is it right that the Football Spectators' Act won't need to be amended to proceed? That will save about 5 years of mind-numbing legal red tape.

[purpleronnie]

23 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Get the feeling the PL is way more interested in this than a lot of the bigger clubs.

 

Games on tele where you can hear the players shouting at each other are depressing to watch, and Scudamore knows this. As for the big clubs though, don't think they care who's in the ground as long as they're coughing up enough dough. Silent stadiums are fine by their book as long as they're winning...

True.  Especially now when the PL are pushing for America, Asia etc... I used to hear from yanks about how dull our stadiums were.  The PL won't want to lose potential viewers.  Whether this is enough for them to give the green light to standing areas is anyones guess.  I'll keep saying it won't happen anytime soon so maybe it will.

[yorkie1999]

Imagine what crowds will be like in 10 years time if the current stagnation of atmospheres continues and considering atmosphere is what makes a football match, football clubs need to introduce new things just to keep the interest levels up. Rail seating is obviously one of those things.  

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, CityFan 06 said:

 

Got this as well... http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/premier-league-moves-nearer-safe-standing-13-clubs-indicating-interest-a7421716.html 

"The only club which is formally opposed to safe standing is Liverpool"  Yet all their fans are standing at every away match and half of them are standing at home matches. Should be practicing what they preach.

[Voll Blau]

Inconclusive but positive nonetheless...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38014711

[davieG]

Premier League clubs have agreed further talks on the possibility of introducing safe standing at grounds.

Top flight and Championship stadiums have to be all-seater since terraces were outlawed in the aftermath of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.

Initial discussions between clubs were held on Thursday, with an emphasis on safety being of paramount importance.

West Ham co-chairman David Gold said the meeting represented the "first steps towards safe standing".

Issues around reintroducing standing at stadiums are believed to vary from club to club, with Everton confirming they are "not considering" safe standing.

Ninety-six Liverpool fans died as a result of the Hillsborough disaster, when supporters standing on terraces watching the Reds play Nottingham Forest in an FA Cup semi-final at Sheffield Wednesday's stadium were crushed to death.

Hillsborough Support Group secretary Sue Roberts said it would be a "backwards step" to bring back standing.

"We have a tendency to forget things in history," Roberts, who lost her brother in the disaster, told BBC Sport. "I think it's one step in the wrong direction, that will lead to another and another.

"I would hate to be still around to say I told you so."

 

Celtic's safe standing: how does it work?

Safe-standing areas, featuring retractable seats, have been introduced abroad, most notably in Germany.

Dan Johnson, Premier League director of communications, said there had been a "softening" on the topic of standing, citing Celtic's 3,000 'rail seats' at Celtic Park as a good example of safe standing.

"Maybe at some clubs it might be how do we create an atmosphere and maintain it," said Johnson. "But I think a lot of it is to do with listening to their fans and hearing they're interested in looking at it.

"It is very early stages. It's a very emotive subject still, we're acutely aware of that. A number of our clubs do want to discuss it so it's on the agenda.

"We will discuss that but beyond that the only thing I can see happening at these early stages is a scoping exercise, talking to interested stakeholders - including fans' groups and Hillsborough families, but also talking with the government because the legislation is still in place for all-seater stadiums.

"I know it will create discussion, but it's a long road and it might not necessarily lead to the introduction of safe standing."

Clubs have tasked the Premier League with examining safety, fan, technical and legislative issues before further discussions based on the facts can take place.

Atmosphere v safety

Football Association chief executive Martin Glenn told BBC Sport: "We've got different history [to Germany]. We've had Hillsborough, and they haven't.

"We have got to tread very carefully because our number one duty is to create a safe environment for fans watching football."

Scottish champions Celtic have recently introduced just under 3,000 'rail seats' following lengthy discussions with Glasgow City Council.

The Football Spectators Act - which was introduced in response to the Taylor report in the aftermath of the 1989 disaster and requires all-seater stadiums in the top two divisions of English football - does not apply to Scotland.

Rail seats can be flipped up and locked in place providing an individual space for fans to stand behind a waist high rail that runs along the back of every row.

"There's a lot we can learn from the way Celtic are doing it," Glenn added. "We need to look at what the facts are and then calmly make a decision after that.

"We'll work with the whole game to come up with an aligned point of view."

Earlier this year an inquest found that the 96 football fans who died as a result of a crush in the 1989 Hillsborough disaster were unlawfully killed.

Football Supporters Federation chief Malcolm Clarke said safe standing would be a "win for everyone".

"What we want to see is supporters who want to stand being able to do so in properly designed safe-standing areas, and supporters who want to sit being able to do so without people standing in front of them."

Former Newcastle, Sheffield Wednesday and England winger Chris Waddle told BBC Sport that "controlled" standing at grounds would improve atmosphere.

The BBC Radio 5 live pundit said: "There's nothing better than seeing a crowd on their feet and jumping around.

"It might actually lower the price of tickets for some fans. I think it should be an option, I don't think there's a problem with it."

He added: "The safety issue is obviously really important.

"In the 70s and the 80s they overcrowded them. I can see why they changed it, but so long as it's controlled there's nothing wrong with it if the area is the right size and you don't overcrowd it."

Law change

The introduction of any safe-standing areas would require an amendment to the existing legislation.

However, a Department of Culture, Media and Sport statement said: "The government has no plans to change its position and introduce standing accommodation at grounds covered by the all-seater requirement."

[yorkie1999]

It's a long road, but maybe we can spin it out for 10 years, just enough to see us to retirement.

[Voll Blau]

Sue Roberts should a) do some reading and b) have a look at a Liverpool away end.

[Nugent]

Wish they'd stop using Hillsborough as an argument to not implement it, it's called ****ing SAFE standing, and a lot safer than standing in front of your seat like we all do now. Things are beginning to look promising though.

[GingerrrFox]

Considering it's been proven that poor policing and people entering Hillsborough without tickets. It's crazy that people still blame standing as a reason for the deaths on that day. 

Edited 17 November 2016 by GingerrrFox

[C-man]

57 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

Considering it's been proven that poor policing and people entering Hillsborough without tickets. It's crazy that people still blame standing as a reason for the deaths on that day. 

Especially those who fought for that exact result for over 20 years. Quite incredible.

 

Also frustrating that the spokespeople for the Hillsborough groups quite evidently never go to games/have any interest in finding out more about alternative solutions to keep fans safe in the future.

 

The more we stand still and fail to innovate the more at risk fans become.

Edited 17 November 2016 by C-man

[Harry - LCFC]

We continue to see forward steps on this issue. I'm going to predict that we'll see new Safe Standing areas in England in the next 3 years, perhaps only a few and perhaps only in the Championship but that will mark the opening of the door for the rest of us.

 

Celtic's example has been brilliant for us. Hearing how clubs like United are going there to inspect it and seeing it brought up in important discussions like this recent one makes me more optimitic now.

 

 

2 hours ago, davieG said:

"We have a tendency to forget things in history," said Roberts

'Misremember' would be the correct word to use here.

 

It's clear what our biggest obstacle still is, while we all know we have the correct argument what we don't have is the emotional capital that the HFSG has. Unfortunately this means their arguments hold more sway than they ought to.

[GlennyFox55]

Is anyone aware of the official club stance on safe standing. Know there's supposedly 13 clubs in the prem in favour.

[C-man]

1 hour ago, GlennyFox55 said:

Is anyone aware of the official club stance on safe standing. Know there's supposedly 13 clubs in the prem in favour.

 

Guardian said we were 'open-minded' to it, but my impressions from FCCs, UFS meetings etc. is that the Club is anything but.

 

Would be a great first step if we could encourage them to run a consultation with fans.

[Guest CityFan 06]

Now, I might well be wrong but I would of thought since the formation of UFS group in 2013, the club would be more open to this as they've already actually allocated a singing section within the stadium. For me, Safe Standing is going to be one of those things where once a few clubs start implementing it in their stadiums, it will spread.

 

I'd just be intrigued as to where it would be positioned at our ground, my thoughts are leaning towards the SK1 and possibly the Kop. Looking ahead, (assuming the Kop were to get safe standing) and an additional tier with expansion, the atmosphere from the end could be absolutely superb. Double tier Tifo's too? 

[promised land]

32 minutes ago, CityFan 06 said:

Now, I might well be wrong but I would of thought since the formation of UFS group in 2013, the club would be more open to this as they've already actually allocated a singing section within the stadium. For me, Safe Standing is going to be one of those things where once a few clubs start implementing it in their stadiums, it will spread.

 

I'd just be intrigued as to where it would be positioned at our ground, my thoughts are leaning towards the SK1 and possibly the Kop. Looking ahead, (assuming the Kop were to get safe standing) and an additional tier with expansion, the atmosphere from the end could be absolutely superb. Double tier Tifo's too? 

Why do you keep banging on about expansion?

 

You have started numerous threads on it and now mention it in others, I know a boro fan who isn't a city member yet has bought tickets to the boro game in the home end, not just one either, a few altogether.

 

While we have seats available so non members can do that expansion will never happen. Accept it and move on.

 

As for safe standing, Everton are on Liverpool's side about having no plans to push for it so it's likely nothing will ever come of it other than talk and gossip.

 

It would take only one incident to point the finger at the premier league or fa for those families to bring it all back in the news.

 

From your posts you sound too young to remember 89 and everything that dragged on afterwards until now but while that's still being brought up in what seems like annual events I can't see safe standing going ahead.

 

Yes I'm all for it but reality says I doubt any of us will see it anytime soon.

[AndWhat?]

22 minutes ago, promised land said:

Why do you keep banging on about expansion?

 

You have started numerous threads on it and now mention it in others, I know a boro fan who isn't a city member yet has bought tickets to the boro game in the home end, not just one either, a few altogether.

 

While we have seats available so non members can do that expansion will never happen. Accept it and move on.

 

As for safe standing, Everton are on Liverpool's side about having no plans to push for it so it's likely nothing will ever come of it other than talk and gossip.

 

It would take only one incident to point the finger at the premier league or fa for those families to bring it all back in the news.

 

From your posts you sound too young to remember 89 and everything that dragged on afterwards until now but while that's still being brought up in what seems like annual events I can't see safe standing going ahead.

 

Yes I'm all for it but reality says I doubt any of us will see it anytime soon.

 

What about all the incidents that have happened in all seater stadiums? Why can't we use those to show that they aren't safe and that we need standing areas. 

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

I am unfamiliar with the legislation: If a club installed rail seating, but kept them locked in the seated position, would it violate the law?

[davieG]

8 minutes ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

I am unfamiliar with the legislation: If a club installed rail seating, but kept them locked in the seated position, would it violate the law?

I doubt it but no one's going to it unless there's a good chance of standing becoming legal as it cost a fair bit more to install/replace.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

13 minutes ago, AndWhat? said:

 

What about all the incidents that have happened in all seater stadiums? Why can't we use those to show that they aren't safe and that we need standing areas. 

Yeah, like that lad who broke his leg when United bagged last minute against Hull because he fell over the seats, not very safe in my eyes but if someone broke their leg in a standing area the media would have a field day.

[promised land]

12 minutes ago, AndWhat? said:

 

What about all the incidents that have happened in all seater stadiums? Why can't we use those to show that they aren't safe and that we need standing areas. 

I agree but at present we should be seated so they have no point to argue but the minute you create a proper standing area and something happens like a minor fall or knock to the head or even fighting like at West Ham they will be putting pressure on the government and premier league to cancel safe standing.

 

Its been 27 years since hillsborough yet it is still on the news regularly, it's like they don't want to put it in the past and imo this will just fuel it, more so with Everton against it.

 

Uefa don't allow it and I think it will take decades for us to get it when we will all be old enough to want a seat.

[promised land]

3 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Yeah, like that lad who broke his leg when United bagged last minute against Hull because he fell over the seats, not very safe in my eyes but if someone broke their leg in a standing area the media would have a field day.

Exactly 

[Nugent]

If the KP was to get safe-standing surely it would be in the SK1 corner, as it's far away enough from the away fans, far enough away from the executive boxes and already houses a fair amount of standers.

 

How anyone thinks the whole of the Kop would be made safe-standing is beyond me considering its only the back 3/4 rows that stand, with the rest only getting out their seat if we're pushing for a goal and get a corner in the last 10 minutes.

[davieG]

2 minutes ago, Nugent said:

If the KP was to get safe-standing surely it would be in the SK1 corner, as it's far away enough from the away fans, far enough away from the executive boxes and already houses a fair amount of standers.

 

How anyone thinks the whole of the Kop would be made safe-standing is beyond me considering its only the back 3/4 rows that stand, with the rest only getting out their seat if we're pushing for a goal and get a corner in the last 10 minutes.

If the row in front of those back 3/4 rows decides to sit then every row in front will have to sit so I'm not convinced by your point of view. I doubt it would be the whole Kop though.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

6 minutes ago, Nugent said:

If the KP was to get safe-standing surely it would be in the SK1 corner, as it's far away enough from the away fans, far enough away from the executive boxes and already houses a fair amount of standers.

 

How anyone thinks the whole of the Kop would be made safe-standing is beyond me considering its only the back 3/4 rows that stand, with the rest only getting out their seat if we're pushing for a goal and get a corner in the last 10 minutes.

Also, if it's in the corner lined up with the by-line and the touchline it doesn't block anyone's view at all.