Jamie Vardy - Out of his depth.

[Guest Col city fan]

Is the Waghorn stuff STILL going?

[AKCJ]

 

Could you give me the link for this?

 

He certainly profited with Nugent's injuries with a couple of goals but I can't remember him being that good (although I suppose we did only win two games in that month). Willing to be proved wrong.

 

Either way he's definitely not good enough for a side looking to be in the Premier League. He'd proven that over the last few years rather than an alleged good month.

I also don't buy this suggestion that his all round game is poor either.

 

He certainly wasn't voted player of the month for November last year by Foxes Talk poster because of his goal scoring record (http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/83954-mom-overview-player-of-the-month-201213/)

 

 

So he only actually won the Man of the Match award once, a 0-0 draw against Bolton.

 

Sorry mate, but its a pretty desperate argument.

[Captain...]

What frustrates people like Mark and myself is this bollocks about him not being good enough, never has been, when it is bollocks. Nobody is saying he should be starting games for us, and nobody not even Mark expects him to be here next season. But why does he get so much stick, including people in this thread questioning not just his ability but his attitude,  it is bizarre. I just don't understand why people talk shit, he's an honest player with England U21 caps and goals to his name, he is probably still living a bit off that loan season where his enthusiasm and passion for the game and the club were great to watch, but I just don't get the hate for someone who has shown nothing but great respect and joy at playing for this club.

 

At least nobody has come out with he found his level in League 1, yet.

 

He's a decent player who just isn't good enough for us at the moment, to rediscover anything like his form of that spell last year, and his loan season he needs games, and lots of them. I am convinced he will be a 10-15 goal and 5 assists player if he started regularly for a mid table championship side. That isn't us.

[Captain...]

So he only actually won the Man of the Match award once, a 0-0 draw against Bolton.

 

Sorry mate, but its a pretty desperate argument.

 

Or he won the most MOTM votes out of everyone that month, thus him being the player of the month.

 

You are looking desperate mate, and I don't know why it is so important to you that people think he is shit, he isn't.

 

You want further proof:

 

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/84840-home-v-derby-011212-man-of-the-match/

[AKCJ]

Or he won the most MOTM votes out of everyone that month, thus him being the player of the month.

 

You are looking desperate mate, and I don't know why it is so important to you that people think he is shit, he isn't.

 

 

I'm not desperate at all? Why would I be? Just putting my opinions across.

 

I've never called him shit either. I'm merely saying that he's not good enough for us now and that has been proven with woeful performance after woeful performance over the past few seasons. Sorry if you disagree, but that is my opinion and one that is shared with many fellow FoxesTalkers.

 

I'll always be fond of the lad. He was excellent in our first Pearson Play-Off campaign, but it looks more like a flash in the pan every time I've seen him since.

 

I'd probably put it down to a lack of opportunities but I don't think we're in a position to give him those opportunities. Maybe Millwall do want him back, but that is without a doubt his level now.

 

 

Out of interest, where do you think he sits in our hierarchy? Right now, in terms of importance to the team, he's 7th for me.

 

Nugent and Vardy are obviously our two best.

Wood and Schlupp fall under the develop them and see how we go category.

GTF and Phillips are our go to guys in terms of experience and are two we can rely on.

 

For me, I think we should have let him go in the transfer window. I don't think its fair that he should rot in the reserves because he's still young enough to forge a strong career but we can't afford to give him the opportunity yet.

[Captain...]

I'm not desperate at all? Why would I be? Just putting my opinions across.

 

I've never called him shit either. I'm merely saying that he's not good enough for us now and that has been proven with woeful performance after woeful performance over the past few seasons. Sorry if you disagree, but that is my opinion and one that is shared with many fellow FoxesTalkers.

 

I'll always be fond of the lad. He was excellent in our first Pearson Play-Off campaign, but it looks more like a flash in the pan every time I've seen him since.

 

I'd probably put it down to a lack of opportunities but I don't think we're in a position to give him those opportunities. Maybe Millwall do want him back, but that is without a doubt his level now.

 

 

Out of interest, where do you think he sits in our hierarchy? Right now, in terms of importance to the team, he's 7th for me.

 

Nugent and Vardy are obviously our two best.

Wood and Schlupp fall under the develop them and see how we go category.

GTF and Phillips are our go to guys in terms of experience and are two we can rely on.

 

For me, I think we should have let him go in the transfer window. I don't think its fair that he should rot in the reserves because he's still young enough to forge a strong career but we can't afford to give him the opportunity yet.

 

He is completely out the picture at the moment, he needs games to find his best form, and we can't afford to give him games, he rarely plays well coming off the bench or when coming back from injury, which unfortunately he is prone to have niggling injuries.

 

The Waghorn we saw last season when he got a run of games I would have him third, behing Nuge and Vardy, the Waghorn who came on at Stoke I would have behind Hopper. I think if we could have sold him in Jan we would have done, but I suspect he got given a bumber contract and nobody will match his wages, we have loaned him out until the end of the season when his contract expires, so I doubt we will ever see him in a Leicester shirt again. The best thing for both parties is for him to move on.

[AKCJ]

He is completely out the picture at the moment, he needs games to find his best form, and we can't afford to give him games, he rarely plays well coming off the bench or when coming back from injury, which unfortunately he is prone to have niggling injuries.

 

The Waghorn we saw last season when he got a run of games I would have him third, behing Nuge and Vardy, the Waghorn who came on at Stoke I would have behind Hopper. I think if we could have sold him in Jan we would have done, but I suspect he got given a bumber contract and nobody will match his wages, we have loaned him out until the end of the season when his contract expires, so I doubt we will ever see him in a Leicester shirt again. The best thing for both parties is for him to move on.

 

 

Totally agree.

 

A fine player on his day, but he doesn't have too many days. His best bet is to join an upcoming League One club and really gain confidence and attention. IO'd love to see him develop into a 10+ goal a season striker at this level but he's most definitely not that at the moment.

 

We'll part ways with heavy hearts, but it's whats best.

[Guest Col city fan]

This backing of Waghorn is interesting.

The bottom line is we signed a player who most of us expected to be our top striker for years to come, to a player that doesn't feature.

The stuff about wages etc is a red herring. If Nige rated Martyn highly enough, he'd be playing him, or would have him on the bench.

He's clearly made up his mind that its best for both THE CLUB and for Waghorn himself to go.

Waghorn may now go on to do well somewhere else or may drift around, finally into obscurity.

No-one knows which it will be.

But expectation vis a vis final product has been very different. At least at this club.

The thing that interests me is why do certain players leave a club without the fans backing... essentially kicked out the door (Danns, Mills, Beckford and, to an extent Jack Hobbs) whilst Waggy will leave 'with our blessing'. Theres some interesting psychology going on there.

[Mark_w]

This backing of Waghorn is interesting.

The bottom line is we signed a player who most of us expected to be our top striker for years to come, to a player that doesn't feature.

The stuff about wages etc is a red herring. If Nige rated Martyn highly enough, he'd be playing him, or would have him on the bench.

He's clearly made up his mind that its best for both THE CLUB and for Waghorn himself to go.

Waghorn may now go on to do well somewhere else or may drift around, finally into obscurity.

No-one knows which it will be.

But expectation vis a vis final product has been very different. At least at this club.

The thing that interests me is why do certain players leave a club without the fans backing... essentially kicked out the door (Danns, Mills, Beckford and, to an extent Jack Hobbs) whilst Waggy will leave 'with our blessing'. Theres some interesting psychology going on there.

 

There's not really any interesting psychology going on here at all. Waghorn worked hard, always gave 100%, clearly enjoyed playing for our club and seems to love the sport as much as we as fans do. The same can't be said about most of the players you've listed so no one gives a shit about them.

[Guest Col city fan]

There's not really any interesting psychology going on here at all. Waghorn worked hard, always gave 100%, clearly enjoyed playing for our club and seems to love the sport as much as we as fans do. The same can't be said about most of the players you've listed so no one gives a shit about them.

Oh God, you again.

Ok, I give up.

Waghorn forever....

[Bert]

IF he wasn't in the last year of his contract and wanted to be at the club, then he'd be fourth choice to start for us.

Waghorn is better than Schlupp, Jeff has only recently got back on the bench because we've got no one else who can provide any cover at the back.

How do you know this though?

It's just the same as you questioning how another poster knew Waghorn hadn't worked hard to improve his game?

[Mark_w]

How do you know this though?

It's just the same as you questioning how another poster knew Waghorn hadn't worked hard to improve his game?

 

It's not really the same, there's actually some evidence to support my view. Although I was perhaps a bit too adamant that would be the case. He should be though.

 

He was fourth choice last year and we've only added players who are (based on age) unlikely to start that many games for us. Pearson has always praised his attitude.

 

And personally, I think it's worse to criticise someone's character with no evidence to support it, rather than speculating where a manager ranks a player.

[Collymore]

I gave Vardy dogs abuse from the moment he gave that peno away vs Middlesborough last January up until it became evident Pearson had the utmost faith in him and I realised he perhaps could cut it at this level. I actually think he'll play for England, there I said it. Oh my god.

 

I was thinking the same thing when I saw that Birmingham goal. Vardy is one of those guys on FM who has a high negative potential rating (which to this day I don't understand why that made them potentially good in the negative!) . He's come out of no where and the worlds his oyster. 

[Langston]

No one has posted any facts about his effort/training we've given opinions, I've tried to back mine up with evidence.

 

And your 'fact' is not a fact, it's an opinion. One that I don't think you'll find is very popular because the vast majority of people who saw him regularly will tell you that to suggest he 'wasn't very good' during his loan season is absolutely stupid.

 

But if you think you can back it up, feel free to do so.

 

During his loan season. Four years ago. If you'd like to tell me what he's done of note bar then apart from spend the vast majority of time on the physio's bench and worry any fan sitting in row z then feel free. He's had adequate chances to prove himself and quite simply hasn't taken them.

 

Wood has struggled with injury since he joined but I'd still trust him more to finish a chance than I would Waghorn, so the sicknote excuse doesn't wash.

 

He's dog, time to let go.

[Bert]

It's not really the same, there's actually some evidence to support my view. Although I was perhaps a bit too adamant that would be the case. He should be though.

He was fourth choice last year and we've only added players who are (based on age) unlikely to start that many games for us. Pearson has always praised his attitude.

And personally, I think it's worse to criticise someone's character with no evidence to support it, rather than speculating where a manager ranks a player.

Fair enough.

Although the same could be said that there's evidence to support the fact Waghorn hasn't worked on his game, because he's been awful for a long time now.

In other news, I've got a pair of his boots

[shade]

foxestalk in "player is either incredibly amazing or utter dogshìt" shocker.

[Mark_w]

foxestalk in "player is either incredibly amazing or utter dogshìt" shocker.

 

Who said he's incredibly amazing?

[Dickov22]

Who said he's incredibly amazing?

No one. But I would definitely say he's 'utter dog s**t'

[dynamark]

Have to say the only goal Ive seen him score Im sure was a miskick sadly.

Wish him well though but the wages may be the reason he is still with us

[Mark_w]

Have to say the only goal Ive seen him score Im sure was a miskick sadly.

 

I'd suggest you probably don't know enough about him to comment then.

[OLD norfox]

Fourth choice?

Nugent

Vardy

Wood

Phillips

Schlupp

Taylor Fletcher.

= Waghorn 7th choice

serveral th 

[phillo]

waggy just aint good enough for us anymore we have moved foward and hes stood still

[LeicesterBran]

He's been excellent for us this season. He is complete rejuvanted this season and plays with bags of confidence. If we go get promoted to the PL, Jamie is going to be a important player for us and I reckon that the lad can do well in the top flight.

[The Doctor]

Have to say the only goal Ive seen him score Im sure was a miskick sadly.

Wish him well though but the wages may be the reason he is still with us

 

Or that he's playing really well this season? 13th top scorer in the division with 10 goals, and won 5 or 6 penalties. He's been brilliant thus far and is a big reason why Nugent has got so many.

[Mickyblueeyes]

What does that add to the debate?

You're basically saying 'Mark is wrong about Waghorn because Mark is wrong about Waghorn', which really adds **** all to the discussion.

It's not like I've made any outrageous statements, I've not suggested that Waghorn is going to be the best player in the world, I've not even suggested he's the second best striker at the club since last December. So I don't think it's entirely fair to dismiss everything I've said unless you're willing to take the time to explain why what I've said about Waghorn is wrong.

I really have no idea how you can question Martyn Waghorn's character one minute 'he's progressing backwards [WTF?] because he doesn't work hard enough in training' and then the next minute say that we should be trusting Nigel Pearson's judgement. On numerous occasions Nigel Pearson has praised Martyn Waghorn's character, going as far as to say that he wished more players had a similar attitude. I can understand arguments that he's regressed because of injury or because of misuse, there's some evidence to support that view. But I can't understand arguments that he's gone backwards because of his attitude when everything we've heard and seen would suggest that simply isn't the case.

I don't even think it's a case of Nigel Pearson not wanting to give Waggy a chance as a substitute. I think he'd be happy to. It's clear that he thinks he's a talented player who has the right attitude. But it's also clear to everyone, myself included, that David Nugent is better, Jamie Vardy is better and Chris Wood is better (although personally I think that Wood isn't particularly suited to our current style of play, for multiple different reasons most of which aren't his fault). I think it's simply a case of Waghorn wanting to start games. There's no point giving Waggy an opportunity off the bench every now and then if he isn't satisfied with the way he's been treated by the club and intends to leave when his contract runs out (which seems the most likely explanation to me personally).

You can't say his attitude is the problem if you haven't got a scrap of evidence to back that up.

I am not questioning his application or character. I'm sure waghorn gives a hundred percent every time he steps on the training field. However, the normal training hours is not where footballers better themselves. It's the extra work they put in after those scheduled hours.

The evidence that Waghorn has either chosen not to do this or has done it but without the right application or guidance that Vardy has put in is his performances. Waggy still makes the same mistakes he made 2 years ago. He hasn't progressed in a manner you would expect a player of his ability ( compliment!) to do so. Vardy has shown what coming back early for pre season and working on his deficiencies can do.

The decision to undertake these extra hours is simply one for the individual to decide. Vardy is not a finished article of a player. However, he realises that to make at this level he will have to put in far more hours than maybe his team mates would.

Martin Waghorn should be our first choice off the bench if Vardy is not performing or pulls up injured. Instead he's gone on his umpteenth loan move of his career.

Fair enough he has had injuries etc but for me he should be further along with his development than he actually is. Plenary of managers (keane, Bruce Pearson) have seen the potential of this guy and a vast majority of leicester fans have seen it too.

I am not saying he should be premier league standard or even first choice. But for the talent that he has/had he should be a more important player of our squad. Maybe just maybe he needs to put in a bit more to get the best out of what he has.

I am more frustrated that at the end of this year a player who I believed would be an asset to this football will leave for nothing despite his potential.