Jamie Vardy - Out of his depth.

[Mickyblueeyes]

He's had injuries that have halted his progress and on top of that he's been given very few chances to start for us. There's no way you can have seen enough of him (unless you saw him for Millwall) to say how well he is doing at this point in time and you have absolutely no proof what so ever that he hasn't spent just as much time working on improving his game.

But a manager like Pearson has shown he is a fair judge of a player. When he came here he gave Mills, beckford, danns etc a chance.

Waghorn is a player he originally liked a lot (took him on loan here and to hull). Yet he does not see the potential in him to give him a chance to earn his contract (whether it be off the bench or starting).

Waghorn has gone backwards. We have a manager who's judgement has been pretty spot on over the years we've had him. For Pearson to choose not use him at all, Waghorn has not progressed or shown enough to suggest he will progress.

The point is that if he has spent the time working on his game it hasn't been progressed in the right way (that is a compliment to waghorn down to the natural ability he has shown). Waghorn has shown glimpses of excellence for this level of football. He has gone backwards whether that's a confidence thing or a lack of application, further emphasises the work Vardy has done to progress in the short space of time.

[Guest Col city fan]

Don't try to suggest to Mark w that Waghorn isn't anything other than special.

You'll go round in one, very big circle..

[Kinowe Soorie]

Vardy has done what waghorn chose not to do.

He had deficiencies last year and spent time working on what he lacked and fine running what he had to become a more accomplished player.

He will do fine in his career if he keeps that work ethic.

On the other hand waggy has not worked on his deficiencies and has progressed backwards.

Can you progress backwards?

[Bert]

Don't try to suggest to Mark w that Waghorn isn't anything other than special.

You'll go round in one, very big circle..

Which of course the same could be said for most people on here regarding other topics

[Mack]

I'm delighted to admit I was well wide of the mark with my comments.

The truth of the matter seems to me to be more around where his priorities lay when he joined the club.

The good news is he has binned the late night lifestyle and backed his own talent and shoved 2 fingers up at me and everyone else who wrote him off as not up to Championship standard.

Well done Jamie Vardy for repaying the faith shown in you by Nigel Pearson and his coaching team. When you run into the box at pace it's absolutely frightening as a Foxes fan, lord knows what it must feel like to have to deal with it as an opposing defence.

During the Brum game the other night I made comment to the person beside me that Vardy looked 'Premier League', what a difference a year makes.

[Guest Col city fan]

Which of course the same could be said for most people on here regarding other topics

I know! Some people even post transfer rumours as a 'wind-up' apparently..

[weller54]

Vardy has one ingredient that waghorn lacked..pace!... It's won us lots of pens this season.. But he needs to be a more clinical finisher.. Hopefully KP can help him improve on this aspect of his game!

[Dan]

Again no I'd be very wary of him getting a chance to start up front in the Premier League, he's got too many limitations and he'd struggle in the Prem we can't piss about giving chances to people who got us up if we want to survive sadly we're going to have to be a little cut throat, I'd have Nugent playing a minimal part as well. Obviously if Pearson decides he wants to give him a go I'll be behind them both they deserve that at least, but better strikers than Jamie Vardy have struggled to make an impression on the Premier League and if we're going up I'd rather we stay up than try and be sentimental and stick with the lads that got us there in the first place, It's professional football not Sunday League.

 

On his goal last night, great shimy and even better finish which was top level quality, but not many of his 10 goals have been like that and a simple drop of the shoulder isn't going to sell the vast majority of top level defenders quite like it has there.

 

It's nothing to do with sentiment although not wanting to give untested players in the league a chance is a pretty harsh way of going about it. I'd definitely be looking to bring in a forward over the summer if we went up but that wouldn't mean I'd be happy to see us bin off the current crop.

 

A shimmy could fool some Premier League defenders. The majority of sides (especially in the bottom half) cannot defend for shit. I wouldn't be judging him on how he did against Man City and Arsenal (although I still think he'll be a pain in the arse to even their defenders with his energy) but more so the bottom half sides such as Norwich, Stoke etc... seeing as in the first season that's the kind of sides we'd realistically be battling with.

 

I'm not saying he's the best we can hope for but if we went up I'd be disappointed if he wasn't given a chance.

[Captain...]

Can you progress backwards?

 

It's like regressing forwards, I think.

[Dan]

I read 'regressing forward' and thought you were on about Waghorn  

[cityfanlee23]

I gave Vardy dogs abuse from the moment he gave that peno away vs Middlesborough last January up until it became evident Pearson had the utmost faith in him and I realised he perhaps could cut it at this level. I actually think he'll play for England, there I said it. Oh my god.

 

I understand your enthusiasm, But this is the most rediculous thing i've ever heard.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

I understand your enthusiasm, But this is the most rediculous thing i've ever heard.

 

You've not heard many things then. If we get promoted and Vardy carries on as he has been this season, he's bound to score a few next season and may just catch Hodgson's eye. Can't see him playing a World Cup or a Euro, but I think he might get a chance to shine in a couple of qualifiers/friendlies against your smaller countries in the next few years.

[Finnegan]

Because he's muck. I love the bloke as much as the next guy but I won't miss him when he's gone.

Give Mark time. I'm only just coming to grips with the fact Rob Earnshaw never was the Pele of his generation.

It takes time.

I'm sorry, Foxes Talk.

(Koumas was still better than Lamps on his day )

[Langston]

I understand your enthusiasm, But this is the most rediculous thing i've ever heard.

 

We live in a world where Francis Jeffers, Jay Bothroyd and Kevin Davies have England caps to their names, it's far from a ridiculous statement considering where both we and Vardy appear to be heading.

[Manwell Pablo]

I understand your enthusiasm, But this is the most rediculous thing i've ever heard.

 

He said James Wesolowski woud be a world class player before that was probably sillier. Although I suppose you could offer a weak defense as it was before Balde snapped his leg.

 

Ric get's carried away sometimes

We live in a world where Francis Jeffers, Jay Bothroyd and Kevin Davies have England caps to their names, it's far from a ridiculous statement considering where both we and Vardy appear to be heading.

 

And yeah, there is that, and he's not even mentioned Michael Ricketts. 

[Mark_w]

Give Mark time. I'm only just coming to grips with the fact Rob Earnshaw never was the Pele of his generation.

It takes time.

 

What does that add to the debate?

You're basically saying 'Mark is wrong about Waghorn because Mark is wrong about Waghorn', which really adds **** all to the discussion.

 

It's not like I've made any outrageous statements, I've not suggested that Waghorn is going to be the best player in  the world, I've not even suggested he's the second best striker at the club since last December. So I don't think it's entirely fair to dismiss everything I've said unless you're willing to take the time to explain why what I've said about Waghorn is wrong.

 

 

But a manager like Pearson has shown he is a fair judge of a player. When he came here he gave Mills, beckford, danns etc a chance.

Waghorn is a player he originally liked a lot (took him on loan here and to hull). Yet he does not see the potential in him to give him a chance to earn his contract (whether it be off the bench or starting).

Waghorn has gone backwards. We have a manager who's judgement has been pretty spot on over the years we've had him. For Pearson to choose not use him at all, Waghorn has not progressed or shown enough to suggest he will progress.

The point is that if he has spent the time working on his game it hasn't been progressed in the right way (that is a compliment to waghorn down to the natural ability he has shown). Waghorn has shown glimpses of excellence for this level of football. He has gone backwards whether that's a confidence thing or a lack of application, further emphasises the work Vardy has done to progress in the short space of time.

 

I really have no idea how you can question Martyn Waghorn's character one minute 'he's progressing backwards [WTF?] because he doesn't work hard enough in training' and then the next minute say that we should be trusting Nigel Pearson's judgement. On numerous occasions Nigel Pearson has praised Martyn Waghorn's character, going as far as to say that he wished more players had a similar attitude. I can understand arguments that he's regressed because of injury or because of misuse, there's some evidence to support that view. But I can't understand arguments that he's gone backwards because of his attitude when everything we've heard and seen would suggest that simply isn't the case.

 

I don't even think it's a case of Nigel Pearson not wanting to give Waggy a chance as a substitute. I think he'd be happy to. It's clear that he thinks he's a talented player who has the right attitude. But it's also clear to everyone, myself included, that David Nugent is better, Jamie Vardy is better and Chris Wood is better (although personally I think that Wood isn't particularly suited to our current style of play, for multiple different reasons most of which aren't his fault). I think it's simply a case of Waghorn wanting to start games. There's no point giving Waggy an opportunity off the bench every now and then if he isn't satisfied with the way he's been treated by the club and intends to leave when his contract runs out (which seems the most likely explanation to me personally).

 

You can't say his attitude is the problem if you haven't got a scrap of evidence to back that up.

[Guest Col city fan]

What does that add to the debate?

You're basically saying 'Mark is wrong about Waghorn because Mark is wrong about Waghorn', which really adds **** all to the discussion.

It's not like I've made any outrageous statements, I've not suggested that Waghorn is going to be the best player in the world, I've not even suggested he's the second best striker at the club since last December. So I don't think it's entirely fair to dismiss everything I've said unless you're willing to take the time to explain why what I've said about Waghorn is wrong.

I really have no idea how you can question Martyn Waghorn's character one minute 'he's progressing backwards [WTF?] because he doesn't work hard enough in training' and then the next minute say that we should be trusting Nigel Pearson's judgement. On numerous occasions Nigel Pearson has praised Martyn Waghorn's character, going as far as to say that he wished more players had a similar attitude. I can understand arguments that he's regressed because of injury or because of misuse, there's some evidence to support that view. But I can't understand arguments that he's gone backwards because of his attitude when everything we've heard and seen would suggest that simply isn't the case.

I don't even think it's a case of Nigel Pearson not wanting to give Waggy a chance as a substitute. I think he'd be happy to. It's clear that he thinks he's a talented player who has the right attitude. But it's also clear to everyone, myself included, that David Nugent is better, Jamie Vardy is better and Chris Wood is better (although personally I think that Wood isn't particularly suited to our current style of play, for multiple different reasons most of which aren't his fault). I think it's simply a case of Waghorn wanting to start games. There's no point giving Waggy an opportunity off the bench every now and then if he isn't satisfied with the way he's been treated by the club and intends to leave when his contract runs out (which seems the most likely explanation to me personally).

You can't say his attitude is the problem if you haven't got a scrap of evidence to back that up.

Blimey! Thats a rant and a half!

[Mark_w]

Blimey! Thats a rant and a half!

 

Want to pick it apart?

[Dickov22]

How can anyone give a 'fact' on how Waghorn's been playing in training and the effort levels he's given? We don't watch training, and we're not Managers.

A fact I can happily back up is that Waghorn just simply isn't very good. Never has been either.

[Mark_w]

How can anyone give a 'fact' on how Waghorn's been playing in training and the effort levels he's given? We don't watch training, and we're not Managers.

A fact I can happily back up is that Waghorn just simply isn't very good. Never has been either.

 

No one has posted any facts about his effort/training we've given opinions, I've tried to back mine up with evidence.

 

And your 'fact' is not a fact, it's an opinion. One that I don't think you'll find is very popular because the vast majority of people who saw him regularly will tell you that to suggest he 'wasn't very good' during his loan season is absolutely stupid.

 

But if you think you can back it up, feel free to do so.

[Happy Fox]

Apart from his loan spell he was distinctly average a very poor player for us.

[Mark_w]

Apart from his loan spell he was distinctly average a very poor player for us.

 

He's started fewer games for us than he did during his loan spell and a decent proportion of those were on the wing.

 

He has been a poor signing (because of the ridiculous transfer fee, injury and miss-use) but that doesn't make him a poor player. And it certainly doesn't mean he can't reach the same heights he showed during his loan spell and surpass them given a good run of games (although I'd agree that shouldn't be for us now).

[Dickov22]

No one has posted any facts about his effort/training we've given opinions, I've tried to back mine up with evidence.

And your 'fact' is not a fact, it's an opinion. One that I don't think you'll find is very popular because the vast majority of people who saw him regularly will tell you that to suggest he 'wasn't very good' during his loan season is absolutely stupid.

But if you think you can back it up, feel free to do so.

I have a season ticket and go to lots of away games. He wasn't particularly great in the loan season- remember his bloody miss away at Cardiff? He can't control the ball very well, he doesn't have much pace, if he has longer than a second to think about it, he can't finish.

His cameo away at Stoke a few weeks back was one of the most inept performances I've ever seen from a Leicester player. I tweeted afterwards that I hope I never see him in a Leicester shirt again.

I won't. Hooray.

Lets see how many goals he gets at Wigan.

He seems nice, tries hard and can take a lovely set piece. He is nowhere near good enough here though, and never has been.

[Dickov22]

Anyway, aren't we supposed to be talking about Jamie Vardy? That's what you call a striker. (And yes, I did say that last season too- had many a row on here and Twitter about how much better he was than Waghorn, even before his huge improvement this season)

[Mark_w]

I have a season ticket and go to lots of away games. He wasn't particularly great in the loan season- remember his bloody miss away at Cardiff? He can't control the ball very well, he doesn't have much pace, if he has longer than a second to think about it, he can't finish.

 

So your evidence is one miss?

 

12 goals in 27 starts and 16 substitute appearances is 'not very good'? The player who was voted young player of the year by our fans was 'not very good' during the whole of that season, despite us finishing 5th in the League?

 

For the record, this season Vardy has made 25 starts (two fewer than Waghorn in his loan spell) and has 9 goals. Hardly a world of difference then in terms of goals scored between Vardy this season and Waghorn during his loan spell.

 

For the record I was also defending Vardy last season, had a lengthy (and somewhat boring) debate with Bert about it. I felt that Vardy and Waghorn were at pretty similar levels last year and I stand by that. Clearly Jamie has improved an awful lot and credit to him. But your suggestion that Waghorn has never been any good for us is absolutely ridiculous.