ballisimo Posted 16 June 2013 Share Posted 16 June 2013 Waghorns problem is 0 composure in front of goal, he gets the ball n the red mist comes down and the jungle drums beat ultra fast in his head and he try's to hit the ball as hard as possible somewhere in the genaral direction we are shooting. He lacks composure and that's 50/50 confidence/ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 16 June 2013 Share Posted 16 June 2013 Harry Kane's 9 goals last season equals Waghorn's tally over the last 3. I think we're all in agreement as to the ability of Kane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 16 June 2013 Share Posted 16 June 2013 Has he? He got 12 in 47 in his first loan season here, since then he's managed 10 over the three seasons. I think you would take optimism to previously unknown heights to think he could suddenly muster 20 in just on season He scored 12 in 23 league starts (20 coming on as a sub) as a 19 year old, in what was not a particularly attack minded side. That suggests to me the ability is there to score 20+ if he plays a full season as a striker and remains injury free, that hasn't happened since that season and he is not going to get that here, so he should move on, or have a season on loan at somewhere like Barnsley. It seems odd to dismiss him as he has not played well when he has suffered from quite a few injuries, various upheavals with managerial changes, loans and being played out of position, and most people agree he showed plenty of ability when he did get a run in the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 16 June 2013 Share Posted 16 June 2013 He scored 12 in 23 league starts (20 coming on as a sub) as a 19 year old, in what was not a particularly attack minded side. That suggests to me the ability is there to score 20+ if he plays a full season as a striker and remains injury free, that hasn't happened since that season and he is not going to get that here, so he should move on, or have a season on loan at somewhere like Barnsley. It seems odd to dismiss him as he has not played well when he has suffered from quite a few injuries, various upheavals with managerial changes, loans and being played out of position, and most people agree he showed plenty of ability when he did get a run in the side. It seems odder to cling to just one season when as a relative unknown he scored 12 goals. Rather than suggesting he has the ability to score 20 it seems more logical to suggest that as he has been scouted more comprehensively his effectiveness has waned. To go from 12 goals in one season to just 9 in the following 3 (irrespective of position or injuries) appears to reflect this. If you watch his goals he will need to be deployed on the right side of a front two, that does mean dropping Nugent, a player who in 5 consecutive seasons at this level has struck double figures. Thats seems odd to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 16 June 2013 Share Posted 16 June 2013 It seems odder to cling to just one season when as a relative unknown he scored 12 goals. Rather than suggesting he has the ability to score 20 it seems more logical to suggest that as he has been scouted more comprehensively his effectiveness has waned. To go from 12 goals in one season to just 9 in the following 3 (irrespective of position or injuries) appears to reflect this. If you watch his goals he will need to be deployed on the right side of a front two, that does mean dropping Nugent, a player who in 5 consecutive seasons at this level has struck double figures. Thats seems odd to me. Nobody is saying that, well nobody sane, Waghorn doesn't have a future at this club, sadly as I do rate him, but if he ends up at a Barnsley or Wednesday and plays as a striker he could very well smash in 20+ goals, he has all the attributes to be a top striker, all he needs is games to get his confidence and composure up and a side that will be patient with him when he has a few blips. Of course the other scenario is he goes to a poor club, has a poor start, gets dropped and disappears into obscurity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 16 June 2013 Share Posted 16 June 2013 Nobody is saying that, well nobody sane, Waghorn doesn't have a future at this club, sadly as I do rate him, but if he ends up at a Barnsley or Wednesday and plays as a striker he could very well smash in 20+ goals, he has all the attributes to be a top striker, all he needs is games to get his confidence and composure up and a side that will be patient with him when he has a few blips. Of course the other scenario is he goes to a poor club, has a poor start, gets dropped and disappears into obscurity. 20 goals is still an extremely optimistic target for someone who got 12, once. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Championship_Top_Scorer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 16 June 2013 Share Posted 16 June 2013 Nobody is saying that, well nobody sane, Waghorn doesn't have a future at this club, sadly as I do rate him, but if he ends up at a Barnsley or Wednesday and plays as a striker he could very well smash in 20+ goals, he has all the attributes to be a top striker, all he needs is games to get his confidence and composure up and a side that will be patient with him when he has a few blips. Of course the other scenario is he goes to a poor club, has a poor start, gets dropped and disappears into obscurity. He has all the attributes except the most important one... A cool finish If we had a player with Waggys speed and strength plus the finishing of Fryatt we'd be on a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 16 June 2013 Share Posted 16 June 2013 Such a ridiculous thing to say when a lot of them 113 games are 5 and 10 minute spells.Fryatt only came on for 5/10 minutes under Holloway (if I recall correctly) and towards the end of lcfc career under Sousa and Sven, but he gets some bashing.Waghorn isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickov22 Posted 16 June 2013 Share Posted 16 June 2013 Fryatt only came on for 5/10 minutes under Holloway (if I recall correctly) and towards the end of lcfc career under Sousa and Sven, but he gets some bashing. Waghorn isn't good enough. Good post. Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 He has all the attributes except the most important one... A cool finish If we had a player with Waggys speed and strength plus the finishing of Fryatt we'd be on a winner. That will come with games and possibly playing at a lower level where he doesn't feel the pressure and expectation of 20,000 fans who desperately want him to do well. I do wonder how different it could have been if that chance at Wolves had gone in, it was a cool finish, slipped it calmly past the keeper, it just struck the inside of the post. If that had gone in it would have given him that lift he needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayday Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 That will come with games and possibly playing at a lower level where he doesn't feel the pressure and expectation of 20,000 fans who desperately want him to do well. I do wonder how different it could have been if that chance at Wolves had gone in, it was a cool finish, slipped it calmly past the keeper, it just struck the inside of the post. If that had gone in it would have given him that lift he needed. Though he was not scoring he was still playing well after that game and was a big part of our good start to the season. I think he is the type of player that needs an arm around him as his confidence is fragile,the signings of Wood and especially Kane killed of any confidence he had and felt less wanted. I would like him stay as he has a lot to offer, just needs to be more composed in front of goal rather than snatching at his chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SystonFox Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 Dat goal against Brizzle <3 #amazeballs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 Though he was not scoring he was still playing well after that game and was a big part of our good start to the season. I think he is the type of player that needs an arm around him as his confidence is fragile,the signings of Wood and especially Kane killed of any confidence he had and felt less wanted. I would like him stay as he has a lot to offer, just needs to be more composed in front of goal rather than snatching at his chances. He needs games, he isn't going to get them here, half a season loan to prove himself then sell him in January if it hasn't gone well. I really want him to do well here, but that isn't going to happen if he is only a bit part player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 Harry Kane's 9 goals last season equals Waghorn's tally over the last 3. I think we're all in agreement as to the ability of Kane. When did that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 When did that happen? 9 in 24 for Millwall last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 9 in 24 for Millwall last year. 2011/2012 season, not last year, and it was 7 in 22 in the league + 2 in 5 in the FA Cup Last season he scored 2 in 13 for us, and barely played elsewhere. It is harsh to judge him solely on his time here, in terms of minutes he played the equivalent of 6 full games, it wasn't successful, but he had barely played that season, he has some talent and looked a beast when we played Millwall 11/12. It was just a baffling decision from NP to bring in a forward when we had plenty of cover up front and 2 fit forwards who had scored a combined 31 league goals at that point of the season (Nugent 13, Wood 18) + 4 of our own players in Waghorn, Schlupp, Vardy and Futacs who were crying out for a run in the team to prove themselves. Kane will have a decent career, probably no better than championship level, as will Waghorn, just not with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 Nobody is saying that, well nobody sane, Waghorn doesn't have a future at this club, sadly as I do rate him, but if he ends up at a Barnsley or Wednesday and plays as a striker he could very well smash in 20+ goals, he has all the attributes to be a top striker, all he needs is games to get his confidence and composure up and a side that will be patient with him when he has a few blips. Of course the other scenario is he goes to a poor club, has a poor start, gets dropped and disappears into obscurity. There is no way he'll ever score 20 league goals for Barnsley or Wednesday about 3 or 4 players normally break 20 a season and they are top Championship strikers playing at decent teams like Vydra, Murray, Lambert, etc. There are the odd exceptions to the rule like Maynard and Rhodes but I think as far as Waghorn is concerned he should be looking to establish himself as a Championship standard player before worrying about becoming one of the divisions best strikers He has all the attributes of a top striker??? He can't finish consistently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchandro Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 There is no way he'll ever score 20 league goals for Barnsley or Wednesday about 3 or 4 players normally break 20 a season and they are top Championship strikers playing at decent teams like Vydra, Murray, Lambert, etc. There are the odd exceptions to the rule like Maynard and Rhodes but I think as far as Waghorn is concerned he should be looking to establish himself as a Championship standard player before worrying about becoming one of the divisions best strikers He has all the attributes of a top striker??? He can't finish consistently? I don't disagree with your point but it should be noted Murray was crap before this season (and I bet he scored a lot of penalties in this one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 I don't disagree with your point but it should be noted Murray was crap before this season (and I bet he scored a lot of penalties in this one). I think crap is a tad harsh. He had hit double figures (albeit at a lower level) in league an cup 5 times in his career. I concede very few people would have seen this seasons tally but he has a better pedigree than Waghorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_tony Posted 17 June 2013 Share Posted 17 June 2013 He was good but not great when on loan with us. since he signed for us he's been average at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanolegend1989 Posted 18 June 2013 Share Posted 18 June 2013 Get of Waggy's back for god sakes. hes capable and he has shown finishing at the highest order with us. The goal vs Bristol was quality(with his weaker foot albeit didnt look like it). Cov was a cracking strike and that header vs reading was outstanding. He does have all the attributes to be a top striker. Id say his level is mid to top CCC and could even do a job in the prem I feel. I for one will be disapointed if we lose him, he has a lot to offer still. In comparison to Wood and Kane hes a better all round striker. People might laugh Wood, but IMO Wood is a very average CCC at BEST. A Brighton fan mate of mine said hes very average and suprised he got a move to us for a mill. Hes looked very poor ever since he hit the ground running with us(lucky flukey streak). Even his best moment, the hat trick at Bristol was awful keeping all round...not 1 of those shots goes in in the Premier. People rate the guy because they buy into the old 6'4 big guy physical can cope in the english league, stupid cliche - the type that people who know sweet f all about football use. You might as well be called Peter Beagrie for the day and roll the tripe out...Big guys up front are usually poor strikers, with the only thing they are good at generally is 'holding the ball up'. The thing is the guy cant control the ball for toffee, and although big is more like 6ft 4 and built like jelly..gets bullied too easy...so his main strengths are gone, but then is also not quick and cant header for sh*t(cant forget that awful miss Vs Wolves..even if he was 5ft 4 I couldnt forgive that). He's relativly good at finishing but what else? Ok dont get me wrong I dont dislike Wood and think we should stick with Wood for 10 games or so and see but tbh he isnt all that and im waiting for him to prove me wrong still. Anyone can come in and score a few goals...remember wonder kid Marcheda? 2 winners in 2 weeks(4 points gained which won them the premier league title). yet now whats he doing? is he playing for Tranmere yet? Waghorn on the other hand is speedier, holds the ball up better and is an all round better footballer. Hes capable of bagging 15 goals Id suggest and possibly 20(although why we'd expect 20 off him is incredible considering barely anyone in the entire league gets 20!). Hes had injuries and barely gets a kick yet give him a run of 10-15 games the start of the season and I wouldnt be at all suprised if he got at least 5 goals(5/15 = 15/45). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurnbyLodgeFox Posted 18 June 2013 Share Posted 18 June 2013 why would you even think about selling Nugent?! what a stupid fvcking comment that was. He might not be on the score sheet, but if you actually attend some of the games, you'd realize his work rate is sublime. all these armchair fans only notice a player when they score... anyway, he scored 2 in 2 in the PO's I'd keep Waghorn and see if he can breakthrough into the first team. However, if Pearson doesn't plan on playing him, he should go, for his own sake. I love the guy and obviously would want him to stay, but for his own benefit, he should be allowed to leave for the sake of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted 18 June 2013 Share Posted 18 June 2013 Get of Waggy's back for god sakes. hes capable and he has shown finishing at the highest order with us. The goal vs Bristol was quality(with his weaker foot albeit didnt look like it). Cov was a cracking strike and that header vs reading was outstanding. He does have all the attributes to be a top striker. Id say his level is mid to top CCC and could even do a job in the prem I feel. I for one will be disapointed if we lose him, he has a lot to offer still. In comparison to Wood and Kane hes a better all round striker. People might laugh Wood, but IMO Wood is a very average CCC at BEST. A Brighton fan mate of mine said hes very average and suprised he got a move to us for a mill. Hes looked very poor ever since he hit the ground running with us(lucky flukey streak). Even his best moment, the hat trick at Bristol was awful keeping all round...not 1 of those shots goes in in the Premier. People rate the guy because they buy into the old 6'4 big guy physical can cope in the english league, stupid cliche - the type that people who know sweet f all about football use. You might as well be called Peter Beagrie for the day and roll the tripe out...Big guys up front are usually poor strikers, with the only thing they are good at generally is 'holding the ball up'. The thing is the guy cant control the ball for toffee, and although big is more like 6ft 4 and built like jelly..gets bullied too easy...so his main strengths are gone, but then is also not quick and cant header for sh*t(cant forget that awful miss Vs Wolves..even if he was 5ft 4 I couldnt forgive that). He's relativly good at finishing but what else? Ok dont get me wrong I dont dislike Wood and think we should stick with Wood for 10 games or so and see but tbh he isnt all that and im waiting for him to prove me wrong still. Anyone can come in and score a few goals...remember wonder kid Marcheda? 2 winners in 2 weeks(4 points gained which won them the premier league title). yet now whats he doing? is he playing for Tranmere yet? Waghorn on the other hand is speedier, holds the ball up better and is an all round better footballer. Hes capable of bagging 15 goals Id suggest and possibly 20(although why we'd expect 20 off him is incredible considering barely anyone in the entire league gets 20!). Hes had injuries and barely gets a kick yet give him a run of 10-15 games the start of the season and I wouldnt be at all suprised if he got at least 5 goals(5/15 = 15/45). So Waghorn is somehow better than Wood? Explain how the 'terrible' Wood has scored 20 goals then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickov22 Posted 18 June 2013 Share Posted 18 June 2013 'Waghorn could play in the Premiership' No words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurnbyLodgeFox Posted 18 June 2013 Share Posted 18 June 2013 'Waghorn could play in the Premiership' No words. he could, when he's on form he's unstoppable its just WHEN he's on form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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