Corky Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 If a footballer came out now he would get chants aimed at him. Given sections of supporters are offended by players celebrating against their old club or giving scoreline gestures then definitely, a gay footballer would get a lot of attention and stick.
Les-TA-Jon Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 People get bullied because of their weight. People get abused because they are ginger. What about people calling a short person a 'midget'? You're still singling a person out for being "different", so where do you draw the line? I do think the time will come where we will have to sit in silence and people will be punished for laughing. Imagine Monty Python nowadays, it would probably get banned. Well obviously it's about balance isn't it, like in most issues in life. Also we're about a million miles away from having to keep silent for fear of offending people. Unless you read the Daily Mail of course! Being overweight or under weight, isn't a fundamental aspect of who you are as a person, i.e something that you have no control over. Sure it's not very good to abuse someone for being over weight, or ginger but it's quite obviously not in the same bracket as racism, sexism or homophobia.
Captain... Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 What a ridiculous post. There's nothing wrong with me. There might be something wrong with people's reading ability though. Kitch has not merely stated that he "[does not care] about someones sexuality and it having no effect on [him]" He explicitly said in his posts that abuse that targets a player's sexuality (i.e an offence that is EXACTLY the same severity as abusing someone for their race or gender) should be shrugged off. I think the correct response is a handshake.
The Blur Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 People get bullied because of their weight. People get abused because they are ginger. What about people calling a short person a 'midget'? You're still singling a person out for being "different", so where do you draw the line? I do think the time will come where we will have to sit in silence and people will be punished for laughing. Imagine Monty Python nowadays, it would probably get banned. There are a world of difference between making jokes about people of a certain minority such as comedians do now or hurling them abuse.
Manwell Pablo Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 True with the first part, but I still think it would be a much bigger story if it had the "GAY FOOTBALLER" angle. I think we're all agreed that we would like to live in a world where footballers didn't have to come out in public but the fact that very few have suggests that, for whatever reason, they don't feel comfortable. If Hitzlsperger coming out helps towards that (however minor) then who am I to argue? As for the latter bit, I have a gay friend who massively agrees that image is far from ideal. Maybe footballers such as Hitzlsperger coming out will help show that being gay doesn't necessarily mean you're an overly flamboyant queen, an image which I imagine some people will have because (as you say) you do get a lot of that in the public eye Anyway, I'm starting to ramble. As an aside, when I was at uni we used to call him Tommy "the Hammer" Hitzlsperger when unleashing piledrivers on Pro Evo. I'm not sure what people will think if I start calling him that now... funnily enough that nick name was the first thing that jumped into my head when I read the article.
Manwell Pablo Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 Selfish? Get off your high horse man. This has got nothing to do with whether I care about it or not, it's about his reasoning for coming out. I don't think coming out will benefit him in the real world, or his sporting colleagues. Why are you comparing it to bullying you absolute idiot, he's a grown man. Therefore there is nothing anyone can do to protect him from abuse. If he's truly comfortable with it he has to just get on with life. The only people who can actually make it not a difficult issue is the gay people themselves. They have to get on with their lives. Coming out to his family, friends and teammates is one thing. Coming out to the public, sorry but I don't see what major breakthrough that makes. Selfish is the wrong word he to be fair to you. He is more referring to your tendency to be unable to get your head round the fact that just because you think one way it doesn't mean everybody else does. This being a classic example "I don't care if he's gay" well trust me some people will the tabloid press being one.
Manwell Pablo Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 People get bullied because of their weight. People get abused because they are ginger. What about people calling a short person a 'midget'? You're still singling a person out for being "different", so where do you draw the line? I do think the time will come where we will have to sit in silence and people will be punished for laughing. Imagine Monty Python nowadays, it would probably get banned. Yes, but nobody has ever rounded up gingers fattys and short people and put them to work in plantations, or segregated them from the rest of society and treated considered them as genuinely second class citizens have they. I think it was actually illegal to be gay up until 19's something and you could go down for it, weren't they put in concentration camps in WW2 as well. Much as people make fun and pick differences at each other there are certain racial/sexual orientation groups who have suffered real oppression and still fight to be seen as equal to this day and being abused for what they are is a step backwards
Haydos Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 I'm not saying you're wrong here, but I do think a lot ought to stand up against it more and I'm not saying we should just sit back as a society and accept that they'll be picked on, but I mean that they should seriously stand up for themselves because they really won't be on their own. It's a tough situation which the media have made tougher by making this their main bulletin. I think todays news and the way it's come about will have sent the situation a step in the wrong direction rather than the right one. I think there's + & - for both really. I understand what you mean and ideally more would but at the end of the day it seems like most would rather spare the ridicule/attention at a cost to their happiness. That's why it's commendable for Hitz to come out and say this this as it is a way of 'standing up for himself' and another step towards active players doing the same. I think this will promote courage tbh, I don't think most gay adults are so naive that it'll negatively effect them, i would hope most understood the situation (albeit how disappointing it is that this is still newsworthy) and see it in the positive way it should be. As always I'd like to hear any gay posters views on it. I could be being patronising although I'm trying to stay clear of defending gay people as I have no right to do that, I'm just defending the movement toward this becoming 'normal'.
ADK Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 Let me guess, half the people posting in this topic are saying how much they "don't care" (but care enough to make several posts).
Haydos Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 Let me guess, half the people posting in this topic are saying how much they "don't care" (but care enough to make several posts). Just because you don't care whether he's gay or not it doesn't mean you don't care about the subject at hand.
Stadt Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 Chants would be light hearted and not ill intended and I think that's where attitudes have changed, fans will always take the piss but it won't be fuelled by homophobia or hatred now whereas (I think) 30 years ago it would be deemed completely unacceptable.
Danno Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 I fear the wurst!I'm sure he loves a bit of sausage.
C-man Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 Agree with pretty much everything Haydos has said. Those saying a current pro wouldn't get a fair amount of stick are being pretty naive in my opinion. Knowing Brighton still get chants aimed at them nearly every game it's evident that there's still a lot of morons out there. In a situation with a gay pro where you combine stupidity (ie moronic fans) with anger (see Walcott gesture) and you get a very dangerous mix for homophobic abuse.
Finnaldo Posted 8 January 2014 Posted 8 January 2014 The one thing that does confuse me about some gay people is the 'you should be who you are' argument. The encouragement that gay men should come out and 'be themselves' when they act in a stereotypical 'girly, campy gay' way. Now I have zero problem with people acting this way as I'm sure some people are naturally like this. However the number of gay men who express it in the above described way seem like a majority, when surely by acting camp they are just complying to the camp gay stereotype and not actually 'being themselves'. I don't really have any gay friends so I'm not sure how it works, whether there is sometimes a link to being gay and being camp on a hormonal level or whatnot I don't know but it seems like a contradicting argument to me.
Guest MattP Posted 9 January 2014 Posted 9 January 2014 Lets be honest he's not the first German to have scared the shit out of people in the showers.
deanolegend1989 Posted 9 January 2014 Posted 9 January 2014 The question Id be interested in is if one of our players 'came out' would we judge him? I bet everytime he had a poor game he'd get absolutely ripped!
ozleicester Posted 9 January 2014 Posted 9 January 2014 Why does he have to announce it? Who cares? Considering Ronnie Kray was open about it, I don't think anybody else should have any worries about coming out. Don't get why it's always a story. There a millions of people around the World that are gay, just because a professional comes out the media seem to rave over it. No wonder people still take the p**s, just leave them alone. I thought the article implied that his teammates knew about it? I don't see it as necessary to come out in public about it. I really don't care about footballers' personal life, who they're shagging and wotnot. That's the kind of stuff women are interested in. If he can admit it to his teammates, then that's enough. It's an issue if he hides it from them. Not if he doesn't go round telling everyone in the world. After all, it doesn't really matter what we think, does it? It matters what you think, because you influence others. The reason that famous and respected people need to come out and be reported is so that homosexuality is accepted as part of our society and so that brain dead fvkcwits dont think they have the right to go around thumping people based on their sexuality. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-08/perth-man-claims-gay-bashing-still-prevalent/5190334 Ignorance is the problem and that will slowly be solved (in part) by recognition, when it stops being front page news it will indeed be a good time, It might just mean that the people will be free to be who they are instead of hiding it and most likely causing themselves and ones they love no end of pain.
Guest MattP Posted 9 January 2014 Posted 9 January 2014 The question Id be interested in is if one of our players 'came out' would we judge him? I bet everytime he had a poor game he'd get absolutely ripped! Buggered if I know.
Alf Bentley Posted 9 January 2014 Posted 9 January 2014 The one thing that does confuse me about some gay people is the 'you should be who you are' argument. The encouragement that gay men should come out and 'be themselves' when they act in a stereotypical 'girly, campy gay' way. Now I have zero problem with people acting this way as I'm sure some people are naturally like this. However the number of gay men who express it in the above described way seem like a majority, when surely by acting camp they are just complying to the camp gay stereotype and not actually 'being themselves'. I don't really have any gay friends so I'm not sure how it works, whether there is sometimes a link to being gay and being camp on a hormonal level or whatnot I don't know but it seems like a contradicting argument to me. A brave post that does you credit - and one that deserves a response from someone who knows what they're talking about! Unfortunately, I'm not that person, but I might understand glimpses.... - Ultra-camp male effeminacy is very common (my nephew's like that, as is my wife's friend); in my nephew's case, I saw how from primary school age he was interested in female images, not out of sexual desire but out of personal identification. He became overtly effeminate in his early teens....and a lovely, if awkward lad he is! - Other gay blokes are non-detectable, neither camp nor butch, like a friend of ours - you'd never guess... - Some blokes are somewhat camp but straight (some might put me in that category...see you 01/03, MattP ) - Some of it is probably self-protective grouping of people knowing they're a minority who may be abused Good luck to "Der Hammer" the gay boy, to Frankie Wortho the (very) straight boy, to anyone feeling that they cannot be themselves and to all of us, one and all!
VLC86 Posted 9 January 2014 Posted 9 January 2014 The one thing that does confuse me about some gay people is the 'you should be who you are' argument. The encouragement that gay men should come out and 'be themselves' when they act in a stereotypical 'girly, campy gay' way. Now I have zero problem with people acting this way as I'm sure some people are naturally like this. However the number of gay men who express it in the above described way seem like a majority, when surely by acting camp they are just complying to the camp gay stereotype and not actually 'being themselves'. I don't really have any gay friends so I'm not sure how it works, whether there is sometimes a link to being gay and being camp on a hormonal level or whatnot I don't know but it seems like a contradicting argument to me. so you are saying the majority of gay men are camp? Not ignorant at all mate. I know a lot of gay men and its fair to say the majority aren't camp, yep you clearly get people who are and flaunt it but i can assure from my experience its not the majority.
Finnaldo Posted 9 January 2014 Posted 9 January 2014 so you are saying the majority of gay men are camp? Not ignorant at all mate. I know a lot of gay men and its fair to say the majority aren't camp, yep you clearly get people who are and flaunt it but i can assure from my experience its not the majority. I never claimed to know anything. I said it seemed like it and I asked people who knew more about it for their opinions. I know a couple of gay guys at my school and they're both quite camp. I've met a few other gay guys previously and they've been similar. I was working from my own experience and that's what I have. That's why I asked people who do know more on the subject whether there is a link, whether it be natural or to fit in. Thanks for the post Alf. Makes a lot more sense. Cheers
Haydos Posted 9 January 2014 Posted 9 January 2014 The question Id be interested in is if one of our players 'came out' would we judge him? I bet everytime he had a poor game he'd get absolutely ripped! Who's 'we'? Most wouldn't, some would.
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