Mark_w Posted 3 February 2014 Posted 3 February 2014 ..can't complain if you're assaulted?..what an idiotic statement. Do you think Jewish people have no complaint about how they were treated by Hitler? Do you seriously think that it's acceptable to attack someone,just because they support something different to you? So are you saying that the Jews in Germany and the lands Germany took control of can be compared to football fans who sit with fans of the opposing team and celebrate. Are you feeling alright? Have a sit down.
Brooksy Posted 3 February 2014 Posted 3 February 2014 From post match thread to The Holocaust. You couldn't make it up.
El Sieffsi Posted 3 February 2014 Posted 3 February 2014 Comparing the holocaust with a fan getting a smack is ridiculous and probably offensive to Jews. The comparison wasn't about the atrocities of the war and somebody getting a smack. It was about the mindset of anyone who doesn't see anything wrong with attacking somebody..just because the other person doesn't support/believe in the same thing. How can you justify attacking someone just because they support a different team? It shouldn't matter that you're in the away end..is the attack justifiable because they support the other team..no. Is the attack justifiable because your team has just scored and you celebrated. .no. Again..football is an emotional game..but if some people can't control their emotions and feel the need to lash out at an opposing fan,whether inside the ground or out..maybe they should just stomp away..slam a door and sulk..nobody gets harmed. Can any of you honestly say that IF you were in the away end against Watford and IF Knockeart scored the peno..would you have celebrated knowing the risks..and if you got attacked,would you accept it and think..yeah,I deserved that..or would you react? I remember the football violence during the 70's/80,s..it wasn't a good thing.
MC Prussian Posted 3 February 2014 Posted 3 February 2014 The comparison wasn't about the atrocities of the war and somebody getting a smack. It was about the mindset of anyone who doesn't see anything wrong with attacking somebody..just because the other person doesn't support/believe in the same thing. How can you justify attacking someone just because they support a different team? It shouldn't matter that you're in the away end..is the attack justifiable because they support the other team..no. Is the attack justifiable because your team has just scored and you celebrated. .no. Again..football is an emotional game..but if some people can't control their emotions and feel the need to lash out at an opposing fan,whether inside the ground or out..maybe they should just stomp away..slam a door and sulk..nobody gets harmed. Can any of you honestly say that IF you were in the away end against Watford and IF Knockeart scored the peno..would you have celebrated knowing the risks..and if you got attacked,would you accept it and think..yeah,I deserved that..or would you react? I remember the football violence during the 70's/80,s..it wasn't a good thing. Then just don't make such a far-fetched comparison in the first place.
Bayfox Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 From post match thread to The Holocaust. You couldn't make it up. You don't need to this is foxes talk.
MC Prussian Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 On a sidenote, there's a picture with a massive Leicester City flag in the Bournemouth match programme - it can be found in the Darren Anderton piece and it's taken from the 1998 WC win over Colombia, with Anderton celebrating alongside Beckham.
oldbluefox Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Supporters at rugby matches sit side by side and celebrate when their teams score. It's a sad reflection on the mindset of football supporters that they have to be kept apart.
Kitchandro Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 The comparison wasn't about the atrocities of the war and somebody getting a smack. It was about the mindset of anyone who doesn't see anything wrong with attacking somebody..just because the other person doesn't support/believe in the same thing. How can you justify attacking someone just because they support a different team? It shouldn't matter that you're in the away end..is the attack justifiable because they support the other team..no. Is the attack justifiable because your team has just scored and you celebrated. .no. Again..football is an emotional game..but if some people can't control their emotions and feel the need to lash out at an opposing fan,whether inside the ground or out..maybe they should just stomp away..slam a door and sulk..nobody gets harmed. Can any of you honestly say that IF you were in the away end against Watford and IF Knockeart scored the peno..would you have celebrated knowing the risks..and if you got attacked,would you accept it and think..yeah,I deserved that..or would you react? I remember the football violence during the 70's/80,s..it wasn't a good thing. But as I've just said, it's not just because of that, it's because those people are being wilfully antagonistic. Support your team in your own end and there's no issue.
Bayfox Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Supporters at rugby matches sit side by side and celebrate when their teams score. It's a sad reflection on the mindset of football supporters that they have to be kept apart. No,no,no please don't bring rugby into it, egg chasers make out like it's some sort of gentlemanly sport and we are all hooligans, sorry i'm not having that, I know plenty of egg chasers who like nothing more than a good punch up. Ok normally it takes place on the pitch either at a professional level or on a sunday morning. But it's a real bug bear to make out like they are some sort of saints.
Kitchandro Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Supporters at rugby matches sit side by side and celebrate when their teams score. It's a sad reflection on the mindset of football supporters that they have to be kept apart. It's not a sad reflection, it's a reflection that football is a much more emotional, passionate, exciting and tribal sport than rugby.
oldbluefox Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Anyone who believes that is deluded. Ok, take rugby out of it. There are loads of other sports where supporters are equally as passionate, but they do not need to be segregated for their own safety. It's only because of the idiots who can't control their emotions that barriers have to be put in place. I repeat it's a sad reflection on the mindset of some of our so-called football supporters.
Bayfox Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Anyone who believes that is deluded. Ok, take rugby out of it. There are loads of other sports where supporters are equally as passionate, but they do not need to be segregated for their own safety. It's only because of the idiots who can't control their emotions that barriers have to be put in place. I repeat it's a sad reflection on the mindset of some of our so-called football supporters. That's a bit harsh. Is it wrong that people are desperate to watch there club on a record run? A lot of the people who ended up in the home end live down there, It was probably there opportunity to see us this season. Ok so if you celebrate your gonna expect some reaction, but to say being assaulted is ok, not sure that's fair, maybe they should have sat on their hands. But I"d suggest it says more about the ****** in Bournemouth than our supporters. I've seen plenty of away fans in places such as the carling stand and our main stand over the years, not sure how many of those got a slap for their troubles. For the record, not sure I could do it as I want to celebrate with like minded people. As for keeping emotions in check, like it or not I agree with Kitch, football has and always will be a more tribal, emotional game, you can choose not to agree, but it's been a long while since football fans celebrated a goal with a polite clap and I prefer the fact that I can lose myself in the emotion for a few seconds. No harm in that.
woznotwos Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Supporters at rugby matches sit side by side and celebrate when their teams score. It's a sad reflection on the mindset of football supporters that they have to be kept apart. That Sir is a very good point However , I would rather take the odd kicking and watch a game of football rather than watch a bunch of egg chasers
KFS Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 That's a bit harsh. Is it wrong that people are desperate to watch there club on a record run? A lot of the people who ended up in the home end live down there, It was probably there opportunity to see us this season. Ok so if you celebrate your gonna expect some reaction, but to say being assaulted is ok, not sure that's fair, maybe they should have sat on their hands. But I"d suggest it says more about the ****** in Bournemouth than our supporters. I've seen plenty of away fans in places such as the carling stand and our main stand over the years, not sure how many of those got a slap for their troubles. For the record, not sure I could do it as I want to celebrate with like minded people. As for keeping emotions in check, like it or not I agree with Kitch, football has and always will be a more tribal, emotional game, you can choose not to agree, but it's been a long while since football fans celebrated a goal with a polite clap and I prefer the fact that I can lose myself in the emotion for a few seconds. No harm in that. Being one of those who was in the home end, this is spot on.
Dan Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Anyone who believes that is deluded. Ok, take rugby out of it. There are loads of other sports where supporters are equally as passionate, but they do not need to be segregated for their own safety. It's only because of the idiots who can't control their emotions that barriers have to be put in place. I repeat it's a sad reflection on the mindset of some of our so-called football supporters. I'd rather be segregated from them personally.
Haydos Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 The comparison wasn't about the atrocities of the war and somebody getting a smack. It was about the mindset of anyone who doesn't see anything wrong with attacking somebody..just because the other person doesn't support/believe in the same thing. How can you justify attacking someone just because they support a different team? It shouldn't matter that you're in the away end..is the attack justifiable because they support the other team..no. Is the attack justifiable because your team has just scored and you celebrated. .no. Again..football is an emotional game..but if some people can't control their emotions and feel the need to lash out at an opposing fan,whether inside the ground or out..maybe they should just stomp away..slam a door and sulk..nobody gets harmed. Can any of you honestly say that IF you were in the away end against Watford and IF Knockeart scored the peno..would you have celebrated knowing the risks..and if you got attacked,would you accept it and think..yeah,I deserved that..or would you react? I remember the football violence during the 70's/80,s..it wasn't a good thing. Nobody is arguing that. They're arguing that you're an idiot.
El Sieffsi Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Then just don't make such a far-fetched comparison in the first place. I apologise firstly if anyone found my comparison offensive..in no way was it meant to be and as I said,it wasn't about the horrors of the war compared to being punched. It was about the irrational hatred of other people,just because they support something different or because they live in a different area. I just don't agree with the view that it's reasonable to attack someone just because of the above reasons. Or can people not control themselves when losing at a game? Football is a highly emotional game..if nothing else,supporting Leicester City has taught me that..I just cannot see in anyway why it's considered acceptable..or in anyway funny..no matter where you are. I'm sure my point of view is because,as I mentioned the 70s/80s violence.My brother used to take me to the games until he was attacked in front of me by 3 Leeds fans,which put him in hospital for 2 weeks and resulted in him nor myself not going to matches for around 10 years..I'm sure a lot of people stopped going to games because of the violent element. Sorry for the far fetched comparison and the lengthy post.
MajorDanby Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 You're all being overly antagonistic over his comparison. He was simply saying that the mindset that you are better than someone simply because they do not hold the same beliefs or goals; then using that as a justification for violence is not acceptable. And it is possible to draw parallels with that way of thinking throughout history, it has been the root cause of many atrocities. I agree, although i would have tried to word it slightly better
El Sieffsi Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 You're all being overly antagonistic over his comparison. He was simply saying that the mindset that you are better than someone simply because they do not hold the same beliefs or goals; then using that as a justification for violence is not acceptable. And it is possible to draw parallels with that way of thinking throughout history, it has been the root cause of many atrocities. I agree, although i would have tried to word it slightly better Close enough..as this IS the Bournemouth post match thread..decent performance,could've won by more..thought the zimmer celebration was hilarious..result. ..now can the mods please lock up this can of worms.
MC Prussian Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 You're all being overly antagonistic over his comparison. He was simply saying that the mindset that you are better than someone simply because they do not hold the same beliefs or goals; then using that as a justification for violence is not acceptable. And it is possible to draw parallels with that way of thinking throughout history, it has been the root cause of many atrocities. I agree, although i would have tried to word it slightly better No, not really. A fair comparison would've been with trouble at other events with large crowds, such as rock concerts or fairs, for instance. But the Holocaust is in a way different league of "atrocities", I'm afraid. Unless you point out an event or multiple events in history when football was the cause of "many atrocities" on a scale such as the Holocaust.
oldbluefox Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Bayfox, I think we may have our wires crossed. Getting a thumping for celebrating your team's goal or win is not acceptable so I apologise if you thought that was what I was indicating. For me violence has no place in the football ground no matter where you sit. Banter? Yes. Violence? No. Of course if you choose to sit with the other team's supporters and wind them up then you are asking for trouble, But celebrating your team's goal, in my book, does not count as winding up. COYB
Captain... Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 I do think the problem is increased by having fences and stewards and this idea that football fans can't sit together, down the pub you often get rival fans sitting together and having a bit of a chat and celebrating their own goals. The problem is this tribal mentality, that this is our turf, you can't come in here unless you are one of us. 99% of football fans are decent sorts, and they often have friends that support other teams and they will watch matches together with out kicking the crap out of each other. It is crazy to think in this time of FFP clubs are refusing to sell tickets and would rather have half empty home ends than accomodate a few more away fans. There needs to be an away allocation to ensure they get their fair share of tickets, but I see no reason why more clubs can't adopt the Fulham approach, have a neutral stand, where home away or anyone else can sit in there. Look at the amount of empty seats at Brum, it was pitiful, they could have all got in one stand. Football violence is more or less a thing of the past, but it is perpetuated by these archaic policing and ticketing laws. You trust football fans to act like normal human beings then I honestly believe they will, you treat them like animals they will behave like them.
MajorDanby Posted 4 February 2014 Posted 4 February 2014 Haha OK, seeing as FIFA isn't going very well I'll take a break from it. I can't help but notice this is more philosophical and anthropological discussion now, but never mind Unless you point out an event or multiple events in history when football was the cause of "many atrocities" on a scale such as the Holocaust. Obviously I can't, that's absurd. What I can say is that at a very base level the mentality that you have the right to harm another physically simply because you believe yourself to be better than someone, or maybe have an irrational hate of them because of their beliefs, has been a common factor in many conflicts over the years. There are obviously differing levels. Take a school bully, potentially just a few scrapes and bruises. A football fan at a game could get into a scrap that could result in broken bones. A group of fans at a game could result in the riots and stabbings of the eighties. How about a man holding those feelings who somehow finds himself the leader of a nation, with a people and army willing to listen to his ideals and take action on his behalf? I'm sure you can see my point. I hasten to add that I didn't actually use this example, I was merely trying explain why the poster thought he could. Of course using the holocaust as an example is the difference between night and day compared to incidents at football games. However, I believe it is possible to draw parallels between the types of thinking that makes either action justifiable to a particular person.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.