Guest MattP Posted 6 March 2014 Posted 6 March 2014 Crimean parliament/people to vote on March 16 on whether to join Russia. If it's done fairly and democratically then surely nobody can moan? I know it's not that simple. It will be fair, the Russians won't need to interfere and fiddle it, they will comfortable win that. They would probably win in Donestk as well. I'd love to see one in Kiev, the "pro Western rally" last night ended up with being surrounded by pro Russian factions and they had to be seperated, I really do wonder just how many of them are supporting this, we are probably again being fed a load of pro EU/Western/US by the media over here. I'd love to get out there I would've thought the large minority of people living in Crimea who are glad to have finally broken away from the Soviet union and are happily Ukranien could moan. If they were that happy they should have moved to the East, anyway, Russia isn't like Europe, they don't appease the minorities and go against what most people want generally. http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/what-s-in-a-name-barraco-barner-gaffe-goes-global-1-6478407 lol Brilliant. Let's be honest, how would we feel if the Russian foreign minister turned up in Edinburgh urging Scots to leave the UK and join the Soviet block? We'd be fuming, the level of interference has been disgraceful from the West in this and we now have to pretend we have a "legitimate government" that has been put there by people with bricks and bats on the street? Not having it. He should keep defending his people. He isn't doing anything in Crimea that the west didn't do first in Kosovo. The legal situation is identical. When Russia complained the west was acting illegally then we ignored them. They're going to do the same thing here.
lavrentis Posted 6 March 2014 Posted 6 March 2014 Kudos to Abby Martin for standing up to her employer (sort of): http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/04/russia-today-abby-martin-video_n_4894981.html I love Abby Martin
Guest MattP Posted 6 March 2014 Posted 6 March 2014 So is World War III coming or not? Gonna save for my Anderson shelter if it is Missed this! No. We're not going to have a war, we'll write Vlad a sternly worded note that he'll chuck in the bin. Whole thing will be forgotten about in 6 months. The new Russian border will be on the Dnieper river. Belarus is already effectively under Russian control.
Deucalion Posted 6 March 2014 Author Posted 6 March 2014 I don't think it is a given that Crimea would vote to be part of Russia. While the majority are proud of their Russian origins, most want Crimea to be separate from both Russia and Ukraine.
ADK Posted 6 March 2014 Posted 6 March 2014 I'm sceptical about the situation. It is mightily convenient for Russia to end up effectively annexing a region after all this. Yes it is possible that the people of Crimea would really like to be Russian. I don't trust Putin regardless of whether our own media is biased, you have to look at who stands to gain.
Guest MattP Posted 7 March 2014 Posted 7 March 2014 I don't think it is a given that Crimea would vote to be part of Russia. While the majority are proud of their Russian origins, most want Crimea to be separate from both Russia and Ukraine. You're joking right? ! Did you see the vote in the Crimean parliament? You could be looking at a similar result.
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 7 March 2014 Posted 7 March 2014 The obvious answer is to let the Crimea region become part if Russia again as the majority want I have no problem with what the Russians have done so far as they are just protecting their naval bases in the region
Trav Le Bleu Posted 8 March 2014 Posted 8 March 2014 Russia have said they have moved in troops to protect the vast majority of the Russian speaking populace there. Which should set a precedence if Scotland votes for independence.
The People's Hero Posted 8 March 2014 Posted 8 March 2014 Putin is a rogue, but there are worse out there (and closer to home). Nothing much to see here, really. Let's stop scoring points - and certain people seem to be way in over their depth in this discussion (ie there is a lot of sh it being talked)
Trav Le Bleu Posted 8 March 2014 Posted 8 March 2014 On a serious point, lots of talk about Russia's "invasion" not being "legal", but violently overthrowing the government isn't exactly democratic process either.
Dr The Singh Posted 9 March 2014 Posted 9 March 2014 UN etc, international law etc is worth as much as the steam of my piss. For years aggressive nations like US, Russia, China, have done whatever they wanted and been accountable for nothing. No wonder UK sucks up to US, we neither have the weaponry or money to fight against a major aggressor
MPH Posted 9 March 2014 Posted 9 March 2014 It will be fair, the Russians won't need to interfere and fiddle it, they will comfortable win that. But they already have? Right good bit of ethnic cleansing went on by stalin in that area and in 1944-1949 thousands and thousands of Muslim Tatars that had been in the area for generations ( who are all very pro-Ukraine) were purged from the area to leave almost none left. Coupled with the fact that Russia are handing out Russian passports like confetti from, you guessed it, Simferepol, Crimea and you already have your fix on the table. The Pro-Russian soldiers who shot protesters? Automatically qualify for a Russian passport! and where is it registered? Crimea! All the Russian statistics will show of course is that there is an extra Russian citizen living in the area that needs defending, no matter where they then choose to live. In 1944, under the false pretext [1] of alleged collaboration between the Crimean Tatars and the Nazis during the Nazi occupation of the Crimea in 1941–1944, the Soviet government evicted the Crimean Tatar people from the Crimea on orders of Joseph Stalin and Lavrentiy Beria. The deportation began on 18 May 1944 in all Crimean inhabited localities.[2] More than 32,000 NKVD troops participated in this action. The forced deportees were given only 30 minutes to gather personal belongings, after which they were loaded onto cattle trains and moved out of Crimea.[3] 193,865 Crimean Tatars were deported, With the Crimean population estimated to be just under 2 million in 2007 you can imagine how much of a part they would of played if that near 200,000 had stayed and, naturally, would of been allowed to grow through procreation. With Russian Nationals now only making up 58% of the current Crimean population, you can see what a difference it would of made to the area. Make no mistake, the fix has already happened. Its easy to claim a 'pro-russian' area when you have got rid of the opposition.
Deucalion Posted 15 March 2014 Author Posted 15 March 2014 Apparently Russian forces have entered a village 6 miles over the border of Ukraine and seized a gas installation.
maynefox Posted 18 March 2014 Posted 18 March 2014 Reuters reporting a Ukrainian serviceman has been killed by Russians. Wouldn't be surprised if Ukraine's Interim PM launches attacks against Russians; would they receive NATO support?Funny. This "news" has just came in and the PM did speak of moving from a political diplomacy towards military action.Is this the spark to ignite WW3?! (and means we won't get promoted!!) [i'm scaremongering of course].
Deucalion Posted 18 March 2014 Author Posted 18 March 2014 I think Ukraine is Czechoslovakia rather than Poland. Nato won't get involved.
Captain... Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 It is still just crazy, I've not commented much on this thread as I really don't know what to say. I mean is Putin really just flexing his muscles in a show of strength against the west, I mean he has survived so long without the Crimea, is it really worth lives being lost? His plan to annex another chunk of the East of the Ukraine is also crazy. Would we actually resort to military action? Can we ever be taken seriously if we just allow it to happen? It does have certain similarities to the actions that led to the world wars, which is scary enough in thought. I do believe in self determination, and so if the will of the people, like those of Gibraltar, the Falklands or Scotland, is to be respected and they want to join Russia, then it would be hypocritical not to allow it to happen, but military invasion and a sham of a vote is not the way forwards. Surely this can be diplomatically resolved, the speed at which it happened is quite worrying. If I was the UN I would state that Russia must leave the peninsula immediately and then as soon as a fair and impartial referendum can be held without Russian military influence then plans will be put in place to hold it, but I would first ensure that a suitable waiting period is put in place, such as 5 years, partly to allow for passions to cool and partly as punishment for Russian aggression. The alternative would be a vote for independence from the Ukraine then after a suitable cooling off period they could decide or vote to join Russia. We can't preach self determination for our own annexed lands, but then not respect it for others, yet we can't let Russia just take land as they see fit, especially with clear military action.
Deucalion Posted 23 March 2014 Author Posted 23 March 2014 The Trans-Dniester region of Moldova next?
Dr The Singh Posted 23 March 2014 Posted 23 March 2014 The Trans-Dniester region of Moldova next? I heard Scotland is next
Deucalion Posted 23 March 2014 Author Posted 23 March 2014 Well Russia might have a currency they can borrow.
ozleicester Posted 24 March 2014 Posted 24 March 2014 Reuters reporting a Ukrainian serviceman has been killed by Russians. Wouldn't be surprised if Ukraine's Interim PM launches attacks against Russians; would they receive NATO support? Funny. This "news" has just came in and the PM did speak of moving from a political diplomacy towards military action. Is this the spark to ignite WW3?! (and means we won't get promoted!!) [i'm scaremongering of course]. If we dont get promoted... I will start WW3
I am Rod Hull Posted 24 March 2014 Posted 24 March 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26716281
bovril Posted 24 March 2014 Posted 24 March 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26716281 Some Bulgarians started a similar tongue-in-cheek campaign to join Monaco last week, sent an open letter to Prince Albert begging to be annexed.
I am Rod Hull Posted 24 March 2014 Posted 24 March 2014 Some Bulgarians started a similar tongue-in-cheek campaign to join Monaco last week, sent an open letter to Prince Albert begging to be annexed. Just need the Yanks to annex Quebec and all will be good in the World
BoneDog Posted 25 March 2014 Posted 25 March 2014 I have no problem with what the Russians have done so far as they are just protecting their naval bases in the region On a serious point, lots of talk about Russia's "invasion" not being "legal", but violently overthrowing the government isn't exactly democratic process either. Spot on. The terrorists in this whole event were not the Russians, but the guys who started petrol bombing and sniping Ukranian police and citizens. Can't believe that some so-called liberals were/are supporting what some of the Ukranians and their 'conductors' did to overthrow the government. Disgraceful scenes, but par for the course nowadays when the EU/US et al want to create some phoney 'self-determination' event to change a government. Would the liberals support it if hooligans and mercenaries started burning buildings and killing police and civilians in London because they were pissed off at Cameron? Would they piss.
Guest MattP Posted 30 April 2014 Posted 30 April 2014 Just found this and had a chuckle, has Obama ever got anything correct looking back?
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