Another tory defects to UKIP

[Guest MattP]

Which countries you lived in Ron?

[davieG]

"We need some populist UKIP policies" says Conservative Leicestershire County Council leader Nick Rushton

By danjmartin  |  Posted: October 15, 2014

"We have alienated our own side" Nick Rushton

 Comments (3)

Conservative Leicestershire County Council leader Nick Rushton has said his party needs to adopt some UKIP policies.

The senior Tory at County Hall said the party’s current leadership needed to change tack to win back of the support of traditional Conservative voters who are moving over to Nigel Farage’s party.

Coun Rushton made the comments to the Mercury following UKIP’s recent successes in parliamentary by-elections.

Councillor Rushton, who has frequently clashed in the council chamber with former Tory David Sprason who defected to UKIP, said: “We need to appeal to the more elderly, dry right wing Tory.

 

“We need to adopt some UKIP policies.

“In fact they are not UKIP policies they are the policies we used to have that UKIP took from us.

“We need to encourage the leadership to adopt some populist policies. There’s nothing wrong with that.

“Populist just means people like them.”

Councillor Rushton added: “Let’s have some popular policies. We are too busy scratching around trying to be all things to all people and trying to find the middle ground like Tony Blair did.

“We have alienated our own side - the white working class voter - the electrician and the plumber.”

“At the moment they are not voting for us. Either they are not voting at all or they are voting for UKIP.”

Coun Rushton said the Tories should pledge to hold an in/out referendum on Britain’s EU membership on the same day as May’s election.

He said: “It would shoot the UKIP fox straight away.

“We spend far too much money on foreign aid. The Government is making so many cuts to local Government funding it’s desperate.

“I don’t want to be sending money to India when we are having to shut down the youth service at County Hall.

“I don’t want people in Brussels telling us we can’t throw terrorists out of the country because of their human rights.”

Coun Rushton said he was also concerned with the scale of the Conservative-led Coalition Government’s cuts to the armed services.

He added: “They are old-fashioned Tory views.”

Coun Rushton, who incorrectly predicted UKIP would not win “a damned seat” in last May’s county elections, however said he still had concerns about UKIP.

He said: “They can be overtly racist. They say they are not but I think they are.”

Coun Sprason said UKIP was not a racist party but added: “Coun Rushton may want an EU referendum but he’s not going to get it because Cameron doesn’t really want it so it’s not going to happen.

“He is right though, Conservative voters are coming to UKIP in big numbers people don’t trust the Tory leadership any more.

“The Conservative are just like New Labour.

“I think Nick needs to come and join UKIP if that’s how he feels.

“I know many Conservatives at County Hall who don’t believe in Cameron.

“They are nervous because they know we will take seats off them next time.”

Read more: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/need-populist-UKIP-policies-says-Conservative/story-23176767-detail/story.html#ixzz3GDyDvzQz 

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Read more at http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/need-populist-UKIP-policies-says-Conservative/story-23176767-detail/story.html#CrLe7z7ZD1jrfm8l.99

[Webbo]

They do mate. Rotten was embarrassing, Not being party polictical either as so was the right wing Pimlico plumber the other week.

 

I actually hate the 5th 'celeb' seat on QT - totally pointless, it's easy to geta  cheap round of applause when you can call for more housing, nurses, doctors, police, soldiers, firemen, schools, hospitals when you don't have to offer up a single line on how you would go about paying for it.

I stopped watching it when they started having Eddie Izzard or Russel Brand on the panel you might just as well listen to the pub bore for all the insight and usefulness of their opinions.

[Guest MattP]

The Greens have been mentioned a bit in here so I'll way this in, from the Spectator - The dangers of the Greens.

 

I have just moved back to Brighton, and I am happy to report that it remains as shambolic as ever. The estate agent said before opening the door to a prospective flat, ‘I’m obliged by law to tell you that the previous tenant was an alcoholic and died here.’ I replied, ‘I am not surprised and that is not a problem.’ No one who knows Brighton expects puritanism.

Unfortunately, we have grown to expect dreadful politics. Since 2010, both the MP and the council have gone Green, turning the town into a laboratory for their kooky ideas. Given that they are being called the Ukip of the left — an outsider party on the verge of an electoral breakthrough that could make them bigger than the Lib Dems — the Green experiment in Brighton ought to serve as a warning to the entire country.

There have been some silly gimmicks reminiscent of the 1980s loony left: a proposed ‘meat-free Monday’ in council-run staff canteens (reversed when the bin men demanded their bacon back), gender-neutral toilets, and allowing people to identify as Mr, Mrs or Mx on council forms (Mx means Mixter, meaning someone who doesn’t define as male or female — not to be confused with the MX, which was a nuclear missile in the Cold War). Many of their mistakes are due to naivety. Faced with cuts, council leader Jason Kitcat proposed a 4.75 per cent tax increase to be endorsed in a referendum. Labour called it a silly political stunt, as the cost of the vote — estimated at £900,000 — would itself plug many of the gaps. The idea was quashed.

Such is their incompetence that the Greens often hurt the very causes they push. While I was staggered to find that I might face a £50,000 fine if I put something plastic in the paper-only recycling bin outside my house, I was amused to discover that most people just ignore the warnings and dump away — with the result that Green Brighton now ranks 302nd out of 326 councils for its recycling record. The problem is a mix of poor information, a strange recycling collection programme open to abuse, and ceaseless disruptions to the service that mean people have given up trying to do ‘the right thing’.

Last year, the Greens failed to prevent a strike among bin men, with the result that Brighton underwent its very own winter of discontent. Gulls feasted amid the piled-high rubbish. Inevitably, some of the Greens sympathised with the oppressed refuse collectors and joined them on the picket line. There’s an intra-party split every 30 seconds among the eco-comrades.

This year the Greens worked in concert with the Conservatives to secure funding for an architectural monstrosity: a 574ft tower to be erected on the beach opposite ­Brighton’s burnt-out West Pier. It will be hideous. A giant up-yours to the landscape that would look audaciously phallic in Tokyo, it is totally out of place in a town where the buildings are no more than three storeys high. This particular act of cultural sabotage says a lot about the Green agenda. They aren’t interested in conserving what they inherit so much as transforming it to reflect their progressive ideology. Not for them the countryside of traditional farming and hunting, nor the ramshackle urbanity of Georgian ­Brighton. No — they dream of an integrated eco/bio/renewable future of steel and glass that will render the inefficient past obsolete. Why else have they welcomed the construction of a huge windfarm off the Sussex coast? Covering more than 60 square miles, the forest of offshore turbines will number over 100 and stand 700ft tall. The only upside is that they might kill all the gulls — leaving any uncollected rubbish to rot unmolested.

How did the Greens, with no real experience of governing, get the votes to do all this? It’s down partly to the collapse in traditional support for Labour post-Blair. But it’s also due to the migration of middle-class London liberals to the south coast, with its cheap houses and easy rail access. And in this regard, the Greens are indeed the inverted image of Ukip — and not only in the sense of being philosophical opposites. Where Ukip represents a revolt of natives against newcomers, the Greens represent a revolt of newcomers against natives. Old ­Brighton was a working-class seat that voted Conservative until 1997. The new Brighton is becoming a colony of Islington: it’s what the entire country would turn into if it were run by the people who bought Russell Brand’s new booky-wook. Trendy, yes. But they are impractical and very irritating.

 

[ADK]

The greens are trying to be progressive which is commendable. More recycling, sustainable building, wind farms, lower meat consumption.

[johnny the fox]

Talking of dear old John Lydon, a lot of politics in the UK these days reminds me of Sid Vicious's response when asked if his music was inspired by the 'man on the street':

"Nah, I've met the man on the street and he's a c--t".

could easily of been said by Confucius...

[Webbo]

The greens are trying to be progressive which is commendable. More recycling, sustainable building, wind farms, lower meat consumption.

Did you not read the article? They're near the bottom of the recycling league table and the meat free day was rejected by the workers.

 

One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.

[Guest MattP]

Did you not read the article? They're near the bottom of the recycling league table and the meat free day was rejected by the workers.

 

One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.

 

It's ok. Hitler was progressive and made the trains run on time.

[Harry - LCFC]

Wasn't that Mussolini?

[Guest MattP]

Wasn't that Mussolini?

 

Yep

[ADK]

Did you not read the article? They're near the bottom of the recycling league table and the meat free day was rejected by the workers.

 

One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.

 

Yes I read it. It sounds like they are trying to implement green policies. Would it have been better if they overruled the workers and forced them not to eat meat? As for "recycling league tables" I'd have to know more. I think Brighton does ok.

[Guest MattP]

Yes I read it. It sounds like they are trying to implement green policies. Would it have been better if they overruled the workers and forced them not to eat meat? As for "recycling league tables" I'd have to know more. I think Brighton does ok.

 

But this is the problem the Greens have. It's the impingement they would have on everybody's day to day life. What right does any government have to tell you what you can and can't eat? They simply don't.

 

For a party that claims to be so left wing when you read about their actions and policy in the only area they control they actually seem quite fascist.

[johnny the fox]

Tory lord says the disabled should only get 2 quid an hour.... they really have changed..

[SMX11]

But this is the problem the Greens have. It's the impingement they would have on everybody's day to day life. What right does any government have to tell you what you can and can't eat? They simply don't.

For a party that claims to be so left wing when you read about their actions and policy in the only area they control they actually seem quite fascist.

Its called being a collectivist, what wing you tend to lean down makes no difference.

[ADK]

But this is the problem the Greens have. It's the impingement they would have on everybody's day to day life. What right does any government have to tell you what you can and can't eat? They simply don't.

 

For a party that claims to be so left wing when you read about their actions and policy in the only area they control they actually seem quite fascist.

 

Surely as an employer it's up to them what food they provide and they decided to back down anyway. When it comes to implementing green policy you have to be a bit "fascist" though else it doesn't work.

[benpicko]

Christ imagine a UKIP Conservative coalition

 

Literal hell

[Guest Kopfkino]

But this is the problem the Greens have. It's the impingement they would have on everybody's day to day life. What right does any government have to tell you what you can and can't eat? They simply don't.

 

For a party that claims to be so left wing when you read about their actions and policy in the only area they control they actually seem quite fascist.

 

The whole left and right thing in politics is often a limited thing but many would argue that fascism started life and had more in common with the left than the right. I mean you only have to look at the Nazi Party to see it has a lot in common with socialism. In fact the letters stand for, when translated, the national german workers socialist party. I also remember seeing an article where Hitler said in one of his early speeches about being anti the capitalist economic system and its exploitation/ I believe one of the reasons he hated the jews was because of the way they benefited from capitalism and Marx(left) drew similarities between the jews and capitalism.

 

Fascism considered the greater community was more important than an individual which is typical left wing, the greens being the perfect case of this. Their belief that supremacy for a certain race is ignorance towards individuals as this would make the community stronger. Fascism was obviously opposed to religion, the right wing is more favourable towards religion. 

 

Fascists really had very little economic plan and as left and right is based on economics, it is very difficult to place them at either end. However you can still look at a few like big government-left wing, protectionism-left wing, state ownership-left wing. Fascism was very interventionist, limiting any free enterprise that they didn't control but you can also argue they were the first people to adopt the 'third way'. Perhaps that was Blair's inspiration

 

In truth fascism ended up as just anti everything but their roots lay within socialism and I'd say they had more in common with the left than the right. The BNP are the same. I wouldn't ever describe the greens as fascists or anything close but they might come across fascist because of the common left wing roots. Left wing authoritarianism is just as plausible as right wing authoritarianism. In fact I'd believe it's more likely because true right wing economists like Hayek and Friedman believed strongly in individual liberty as well as economic liberty

[Webbo]

Its called being a collectivist, what wing you tend to lean down makes no difference.

Collectivism is not a right-wing concept.

[Nick]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/an-open-letter-from-owen-jones-to-ukip-voters-9061968.html

[bovril]

You lost me at Owen Jones.

[Alf Bentley]

I look forward to MattP's reaction to SwanLesta's post..... 

[lavrentis]

You lost me at Owen Jones.

 

He tries to answer questions with questions.

 

Also mentioning the flat tax rate That hasn't been a policy since 2009

[Mark_w]

The whole left and right thing in politics is often a limited thing but many would argue that fascism started life and had more in common with the left than the right. I mean you only have to look at the Nazi Party to see it has a lot in common with socialism. In fact the letters stand for, when translated, the national german workers socialist party. I also remember seeing an article where Hitler said in one of his early speeches about being anti the capitalist economic system and its exploitation/ I believe one of the reasons he hated the jews was because of the way they benefited from capitalism and Marx(left) drew similarities between the jews and capitalism.

 

You might want to have a quick look at what Hitler thought about Marx, Socialism and Communism.

[Rincewind]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/an-open-letter-from-owen-jones-to-ukip-voters-9061968.html

 

I look forward to MattP's reaction to SwanLesta's post..... 

It will be something like 'rantings from a loony leftie' or 'he doesn't know what he is talking about'

[Alf Bentley]

It will be something like 'rantings from a loony leftie' or 'he doesn't know what he is talking about'

 

I don't know, Ken. It's clear from the article that Owen Jones feels that he has a lot in common with UKIP supporters. If Farage implodes at some point, maybe Matt would welcome Owen Jones as new UKIP leader? 

There is a serious point hidden behind that flippancy... How come neither Labour nor any party of the left is speaking up for all the disenchanted people who are drifting to UKIP? Still concentrating on those "swing voters" in "crucial marginals", due to the stupid election system, I suppose...could be a big mistake! Admittedly, Europe and immigration are difficult issues for the left to address, but not impossible - and it's quite clear from the article that, if you scratch below the surface, those aren't the only 2 causes of discontent that are boosting UKIP's ranks.

 

I watched the Panorama programme on UKIP and thought it was very poor indeed. Panorama used to be a real high-quality flagship programme for the BBC, but they effectively pulled the plug on it a few years back, cutting it to 30 minutes and slashing its budget. You could smell the desperately low budget throughout that programme - a cheap, low quality broadcast that addressed an important issue, but revealed nothing whatsoever, as far as I could tell. About the only vaguely interesting new information was that Farage has supposedly fallen out with a lot of colleagues over the years. Even if that's true, they didn't pin this on Farage in any way, just had a couple of said malcontents wittering on in an unsubstantiated way. I suppose they did raise the issue of election funds being diverted to the SE in the past.....but, frankly, that probably made sense as it was always likely to be their main breakthrough area (still is, even if they're now establishing a meaningful presence in parts of the North, too). A proper, probing investigation into what UKIP is all about it - preferably a challenging but balanced programme - would be a very good idea, but Panorama certainly didn't provide it!

 

Unfortunately for those who don't like UKIP's values, Farage himself comes across much better than 95% of politicians from the main parties. You get the impression that he is at ease speaking to normal people, which puts him ahead of most Tories, Labourites or Lib Dems. Mind you, I do sense that he has an explosion in him.... He'll be under a lot of scrutiny once the election comes around and I could imagine him losing his cool and damaging his reputation. Although UKIP does have some other competent spokespeople, a lot of their appeal depends on Farage not imploding - their campaign could be massively damaged if he does. I've read that his Dad was an alcoholic, so given Nigel's liking for a few ales, maybe he'll freak out down the saloon bar of the Golden Lion and discredit himself? I live in hope.....