J.Lisemore Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Lets say John Percy is right and we have £6m to spend in January. Would you rather keep Pearson and let him spend the £6m, or spend the £6m paying him and his staff off, to get in another manager who is going to have nothing to spend? I'd go with keeping Pearson and letting him spend the £6m. I'm not sure another manager could really get any better from the players we have at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Lets say John Percy is right and we have £6m to spend in January. Would you rather keep Pearson and let him spend the £6m, or spend the £6m paying him and his staff off, to get in another manager who is going to have nothing to spend? You're assuming that the £6m is a finite pot. It might be that the Thais only trust Pearson & Rudkin to spend £6m and that a different manager might have more made available to him. It might be that Percy has pulled £6m out of his bum (he goes on to talk about a prospective £8m bid in that article). It might be that the owners have a separate restructuring pot for the eventuality that Pearson leaves. As you're always keen to point out, we have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes. But obviously given the parameters you've set out, I'd want Pearson to stay. I want him to stay anyway. But increasingly there is a very rational argument that a change of manager would benefit the club and I am surprised that there are a few of the more "balanced" posters who are refusing to even acknowledge it (albeit you are of course correct to point out that it's far from certain that a change in manager would be beneficial). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-blue-wildabeast Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Couldn't get any less out of them, and if we did get a new manager they would only come if funds were available. Compo wouldn't come from the transfer budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsell1976 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Rebuild - again? How much rebuilding do you need? Swap the majority of staff and players again, then trying to emulate our years in between 2004 and 2010? We're still in the midst of a rebuilding phase now!! The chapter of Eriksson's reign isn't fully closed yet (Gallagher) and we're in the process of integrating young and talented players into this squad in increments. Is the squad currently rebuilt good enough for the premier league, we have some good championship players, and some lower end championship players, who ever is in charge will need to rebuild a side that can get promoted, and then at least compete in the premier league, if we are good enough to get promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 You're assuming that the £6m is a finite pot. Well I did state "IF" John Percy is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Couldn't get any less out of them, and if we did get a new manager they would only come if funds were available. Compo wouldn't come from the transfer budget. What? Your budget is your budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Well I did state "IF" John Percy is right. Yeah if John Percy is right about the transfer funds. You're conflating the transfer funds with the amount of money the Thais are prepared to invest to get things right. We have no idea if the two are related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Yeah if John Percy is right about the transfer funds. You're conflating the transfer funds with the amount of money the Thais are prepared to invest to get things right. We have no idea if the two are related. Have you ever thought you are taking a hypothetical question a bit too seriously. It's my scenario so I can set whatever parameters I want, why are you even arguing? Secondly, a budget is a budget. You either have x amount of money to spend or you don't. If there is another £6m down the back of the sofa available to sack a manager then they should have made it available to spend in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 If you happy what you are watching or listening to, well done, but I am not so easly pleased. To have a squad of a lot of young or unproven players, and gamble on wether they are good enough, if it isn't naive, then it's reckless, if they are serious about staying in this league, even if he only added 3 players of better quality, we just might be doing better right now. I'm not happy with it at all, i walk out the ground muttering for fvcks sake and moan about what should be done every game, but it is what it is until january. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsell1976 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 I'm not happy with it at all, i walk out the ground muttering for fvcks sake and moan about what should be done every game, but it is what it is until january.But yorkie, with the alledged budget, bottom of the league with no win in how long, do you think we can get in what we need to improve the quality, and give us a chance of turning it around, I'm not convinced we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 But increasingly there is a very rational argument that a change of manager would benefit the club and I am surprised that there are a few of the more "balanced" posters who are refusing to even acknowledge it (albeit you are of course correct to point out that it's far from certain that a change in manager would be beneficial). Of course there is a good argument for it, a lot of time the argument seems to stop at sack him and get Pulis in. With little thought to potential things (like the scenario I posted) or what happens if Pulis says no etc etc. I've stated a number of times I'm more than happy to back the owners with whatever decision they make. If they sack Pearson tomorrow I would thank him for everything he's done for this club and wish him all the best, I'm not going to shed any tears about it. I'd then pray to the heavens they can actually pick a manager and they get some very good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Ive been Tesco this morning and by the time ive driven there,done the shop,unloaded the stuf and cleaned the litte un shit napy ive got rid of Pearson and put in Laudrup,then ive given Pearson backing and given him £30 mill in Jan and then ive gone back and got Neil Lennon...i aint got a fooking clue!!! I want the Thais to make the decision and i think i'll just be happy with that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Have you ever thought you are taking a hypothetical question a bit too seriously. It's my scenario so I can set whatever parameters I want, why are you even arguing? Secondly, a budget is a budget. You either have x amount of money to spend or you don't. If there is another £6m down the back of the sofa available to sack a manager then they should have made it available to spend in the summer. As you keep saying we don't know whether the money was made available to spend in the summer. Sorry for taking it "too seriously" it didn't seem like the most jovial post I've come across on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattolcfc Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Unfortunately I think a lot of us are resigned to going down now. Pearson unfortunately made the mistake of believing the players would make the step up. He knows results won't get better unless we bring in some quality and now has to wait until January. Personally I would stick with him for a couple of reasons. 1. I believe he now knows the weak areas of the side which he will attempt to improve in January and then the summer. 2. Money that would pay him off would be better invested in the side in January, even if it's a long shot to keep us up 3. There isn't a better out of work manager who knows the Championship better than Nigel 4. He still has the players on side which would help next season, rather than bringing in a new man who could disrupt the harmony. 5. I don't think any other manager out there could get the bunch of players on our books playing any better, which to me leads to us keeping Pearson. Whether you like him or not, I believe we have to stick with him, after all we may never know what went on behind the scenes in regards to signings in the summer. If people truly believe it was down to Pearson, I think you're kidding yourself. Why would any manager not want to improve his squad and therefore enhance his reputation? Personally I think the big decisions were out of Nigel's hands. Only my opinion before I get shot down but I'd like to think I make a few vaid points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 But yorkie, with the alledged budget, bottom of the league with no win in how long, do you think we can get in what we need to improve the quality, and give us a chance of turning it around, I'm not convinced we will. If we've only got 6 million to spend, no chance but, i'm not really qualified to answer that, i'm just a lowly supporter of my local football team and will carry on being so through thick and thin. If we drop down to the championship at least we have a chance of winning that again, if we stop in the prem we've got no chance of ever winning it and all we'll ever be playing for is mid table obscurity like wba, palace,qpr etc with a shit load of money coming in to buy players who no-one knows and the cost of watching football, for us will get higher every year. But one thing's for certain, you won't find me swinging from a rope just because my teams playing badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Would you have rather had another manager for the last two years and in all likelihood two seasons of mediocrity in the Championship, or one season ripping the Championship apart, one of the best individual games in our history against Man United, and three months of losing in the Premier League? We as fans have an awful lot to be grateful for. There's a lot of supposition here. In fact, in general there is more supposition these days from those wanting Pearson to stay (nobody else will do any better, he'll bring us straight back up next season, we'll have another ten years in the shadows if we change manager, if we'd have fired him in 2012/13 we wouldn't ever have been promoted and so on). Lots of managers have won promotion to the Premiership, Pearson isn't the only one out there capable of achieving it with us or anyone else. We have no idea what another manager might have done, though we can be sure he would have been expected to bring us up and probably before the summer of 2014. The only other manager who served at this club, with decent resources, high expectations and more than a couple of months in the job, was Sven. So it's very hard to unfavourably compare all these previous managers with NP. If your ambition, however, is to get promoted and stay promoted, then that's a harder one to call. It's why so many current Premier League sides who were promoted in the past decade or so changed managers after going up. And it's why, right now, it's starting to look like Pearson was not our man, after all. I'm not sure what, exactly, we have to be grateful for. This club is second, I think, in the all-time 'most second tier titles won' category, and it's by no means unrealistic for a Leicester fan to believe their club should be challenging for promotion in the second tier, nor is it daft - in the context of our history - to think we should stay up in the top tier. Pearson has used the term 'expectation' before, but he's just referring to the fact that fans want to win things. And seeing as he's the first manager in English history to turn and tell a bunch of his own fans to 'f*** off and die', he's probably not the best of reference points when it comes to the fans. A lot is said about expectation, but since September 2010 and the takeover of our new board we have, over that time, been among the best, if not the best, resourced side to come out of the second tier. The board's stated ambition, again and again, has been to get up and stay up. So if anyone is being unrealistic, then the root of it isn't with the fans. As for grateful - if we come down this season then Pearson will have brought us to exactly the same place he found us second time around; namely with a squad of on-paper decent Championship players, clearly not good enough for the top tier and among the favourites for promotion. The constant comparison of Pearson with other, often less-well-resourced managers during the darkest period in our history, as opposed to other managers at other clubs, or the entire rest of our history, smacks of going to lengths to make him look better than he actually is. None of this is to say he should be fired tomorrow morning, though he probably will be. But last night I had to argue with someone who said Sousa was a better manager than Pearson and would have taken us further - and if we need a little more 'perspective' from the 'Pearson Out' brigade (who, let's face it, look like they made the right call five or six games ago), then we could certainly do with some from those of us who want him to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AspectFox Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Babylon. I don't think a transfer budget is a catchall for every eventuality that may crop up over a season. A transfer budget, will be exactly that, a transfer budget. Wages of non playing staff will be an overhead allocated on a monthly basis and costed in for the term of their contract. Should they need to compensate or pay up a contract, it is very rarely paid immediately and as such, will still be being paid from the overhead budget. It certain cases, an extraordinary payment could be sanctioned that would then be added to the overhead as a percentage until paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Be nice if we played two up front, or at least had Ulloa behind Vardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 I'm glad you got the point, I wasn't trying to say he would. I'm happy to back the owners whatever they decide to do. None of us have all the facts at hand to make the decision one way or another. There are lots of things that could swing me one way or the other if I had the answers. The facts are 2 points out of the last 30 and 5 points from safety. Whoever's fault the summer's recruitment was and whatever the budget was the circumstances are what they are. The numbers and quality of players we need to stay up are going to cost a whole lot more than the alleged £6 million . We've got to do better with the players we've got and it's not looking likely with the current set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-blue-wildabeast Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 What? Your budget is your budget. Transfer budget is for, eh, transfers. Millions for promotion and multimillionaire owners would I'm sure pay of Pearson and keep a healthy transfer budget for a new manager. Sadly it looks irrelevant as getting too late to give anyone else a chance, and we are probably in a far worse state than say, palace last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudger63 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 In my eyes the buck does stop with the manager who else is to blame? Oh no I forgot it's all Terry Robinson's fault! Well someone was blaming the owners last night! Obviously it has to be the fault of anyone, but the bloke paid to manage the team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collibosher70 Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 If you happy what you are watching or listening to, well done, but I am not so easly pleased. To have a squad of a lot of young or unproven players, and gamble on wether they are good enough, if it isn't naive, then it's reckless, if they are serious about staying in this league, even if he only added 3 players of better quality, we just might be doing better right now. Agree monsell . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Transfer budget is for, eh, transfers. Millions for promotion and multimillionaire owners would I'm sure pay of Pearson and keep a healthy transfer budget for a new manager. Sadly it looks irrelevant as getting too late to give anyone else a chance, and we are probably in a far worse state than say, palace last season. You don't know that though do you. And I will say it again, it was a hypothetical situation... why the feck do people feel the need to argue with it. The question was really very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 The facts are 2 points out of the last 30 and 5 points from safety. Whoever's fault the summer's recruitment was and whatever the budget was the circumstances are what they are. The numbers and quality of players we need to stay up are going to cost a whole lot more than the alleged £6 million . We've got to do better with the players we've got and it's not looking likely with the current set up. No, that's some of the facts. If Pearson said to the owners in the summer we need x, y and z and then turned around and said you can only have w, q and y. Then it puts a completely different perspective on it. Yes we should be doing a bit better than we currently are. But again, without all the facts (and that includes available managers, money to spend etc) then it's impossible to say one way or the other whether it's better to twist or stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 December 2014 Share Posted 21 December 2014 Babylon. I don't think a transfer budget is a catchall for every eventuality that may crop up over a season. A transfer budget, will be exactly that, a transfer budget. Wages of non playing staff will be an overhead allocated on a monthly basis and costed in for the term of their contract. Should they need to compensate or pay up a contract, it is very rarely paid immediately and as such, will still be being paid from the overhead budget. It certain cases, an extraordinary payment could be sanctioned that would then be added to the overhead as a percentage until paid. IT. IS. A. HYPOTHETICAL. SITUATION. FFS As you keep saying we don't know whether the money was made available to spend in the summer. Sorry for taking it "too seriously" it didn't seem like the most jovial post I've come across on here. Since when does joviality need to come into a hypothetical situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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