Jimothy Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 Just had 5 minutes talking about Vardy on MNF. Neville eulogising about how good he is, Carragher chimes in "Makes you wonder why England keep playing him left wing".Thought the stats were amazing.
fuchsntf Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 I really don't understand why we play the way we do. We have players who would suit a counter attacking game, Walcott, Sterling, vardy, Lallana, Welbeck (to hold up the ball), or even Rooney would play some great balls round the back of defences. That is a pretty rapid set of players, why doesn't woy give them the freedom to run? The slow build up doesn't suit us anymore and most teams at this level are moving away from it and replacing it with high pressure, one touch football. We need to change soon, or risk yet again being left behind. missed this, but a good quick short assesment, of not using the rescources, that are our strengths and so readily available, where for the past 20 odd years, International opposition fans and managers, are also dumbstruck. We have pace, more now than ever , We couldnt use Walcott, when he was fit, Hodgson saw what Townsend could do. If Palace and City can finnish well this season, Then maybe something will click by Hodgson. One reason Rooneys form dropped, because both Manu and England forgot how to use his pace. Give me now a front 4 of..... Sterling......Vardy.....Walcott .................Rooney................ being fed quick ball and playing 1s n 2s, all at pace England would reach the semis at least.. God, Barclay n Lallana wouldnt have time to make mistakes, the pace wouldnt allow them to think too much other than forward, with clean passes.Pace creates clean passing on %
fuchsntf Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 Thought the stats were amazing. image.jpeg Thanks to both for their fair assessment and recognition. lets return the compliment and be fair, these 2 are good ex-player pundits. I have always like listening to Neville especially.. He also gives something to the England backroom staff.
Heymister2015 Posted 19 October 2015 Posted 19 October 2015 the England fans credit the premier league to be the best but then troll the best player in the league playing for England saying he's rubbish and not good enough for England! If he was a Man U player, the sun would shine out of his arse
EnglishOxide Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 missed this, but a good quick short assesment, of not using the rescources, that are our strengths and so readily available, where for the past 20 odd years, International opposition fans and managers, are also dumbstruck. We have pace, more now than ever , We couldnt use Walcott, when he was fit, Hodgson saw what Townsend could do. If Palace and City can finnish well this season, Then maybe something will click by Hodgson. One reason Rooneys form dropped, because both Manu and England forgot how to use his pace. Give me now a front 4 of..... Sterling......Vardy.....Walcott .................Rooney................ being fed quick ball and playing 1s n 2s, all at pace England would reach the semis at least.. God, Barclay n Lallana wouldnt have time to make mistakes, the pace wouldnt allow them to think too much other than forward, with clean passes.Pace creates clean passing on % Rooney is not fast anymore. Ulloa is probably quicker. Did you see MOTD, Rooney was running onto a ball and got caught by Phil Jagielka who was at a 5 yard disadvantage. Whether through injury or a lack of professionalism in the kitchen, Rooney is nowhere near as physically gifted as he once was.
Jimothy Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Just had 5 minutes talking about Vardy on MNF. Neville eulogising about how good he is, Carragher chimes in "Makes you wonder why England keep playing him left wing". Thinking back to when they were discussing this last night and Carragher said that, I thought Neville's answer was poor. He said because we had other players like Kane and Rooney, but when you look at the stats what are they doing to merit starting as a central striker ahead of Vardy. I think the answer typifies the English selection policy of preference for particular players no matter what, it's already been decided in the England camp that Kane is ahead of Vardy and nothing will change that sadly.
Ric Flair Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Thinking back to when they were discussing this last night and Carragher said that, I thought Neville's answer was poor. He said because we had other players like Kane and Rooney, but when you look at the stats what are they doing to merit starting as a central striker ahead of Vardy. I think the answer typifies the English selection policy of preference for particular players no matter what, it's already been decided in the England camp that Kane is ahead of Vardy and nothing will change that sadly. Fair enough Rooney is going to be difficult to replace in the team and fair enough Harry Kane has scored goals when he's played for England but why play Vardy on the wing just to give him some minutes. I'd rather he got 20-30 minutes through the middle in only two of his four appearances for England rather than being farmed out on the left and given more time on the pitch. It's ineffective and allows a negative campaign to build up that he's not good enough. He isn't good enough to play on the wing for England, but he certainly is up front right now. Just a waste.
Captain... Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Thinking back to when they were discussing this last night and Carragher said that, I thought Neville's answer was poor. He said because we had other players like Kane and Rooney, but when you look at the stats what are they doing to merit starting as a central striker ahead of Vardy. I think the answer typifies the English selection policy of preference for particular players no matter what, it's already been decided in the England camp that Kane is ahead of Vardy and nothing will change that sadly. But you have to understand why, Kane could be our next Shearer, unless last season proves to be a fluke and he is just another Ricketts, but you can understand them putting some faith in a 22 year old who has just bagged a hatful of goals, his scoring record for England isn't bad either. Vardy is 28 and has 1 tournament, maybe 2, he can only really play one way and can't really be moulded to fit another style, Kane can, the thing is with everyone fit neither of them will be in the starting line-up with Sturridge and possibly Welbeck ahead of them, and the likes of Walcott and Sterling most likely for the wide forward roles with Chamberlain and others making claims. Vardy hasn't really done it yet for England, but his one significant contribution should tell Roy how he will be best deployed, coming off the bench and running at tired defenders, especially in a tight game.
Guest Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 The prevalent view that a 22yo with potential is better to play than a 28 year old in form drives me crazy. That's another reason why we'll never win a euro or world championship we are always playing people who may come good in the future. Look how old those German attackers were in the World cup finals squad. Play your best and if those youngsters develop as you hope then play them.
Captain... Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 The prevalent view that a 22yo with potential is better to play than a 28 year old in form drives me crazy. That's another reason why we'll never win a euro or world championship we are always playing people who may come good in the future. Look how old those German attackers were in the World cup finals squad. Play your best and if those youngsters develop as you hope then play them. But we are not talking about the squad for Euro 16, we are talking about dead rubber qualifiers and friendlies, in 5 years time Kane could well be leading the line for England and be the focal point for the attack, use these matches now to play him there. Hodgson clearly doesn't see Vardy as the spearhead for the attack so is trying him as a wide forward, but it is not proving successful so far, Kane as the spearhead is. Neither will be starting in France so it is experimenting at the moment.
Guest Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 But we are not talking about the squad for Euro 16, we are talking about dead rubber qualifiers and friendlies, in 5 years time Kane could well be leading the line for England and be the focal point for the attack, use these matches now to play him there. Hodgson clearly doesn't see Vardy as the spearhead for the attack so is trying him as a wide forward, but it is not proving successful so far, Kane as the spearhead is. Neither will be starting in France so it is experimenting at the moment. watching him play this year that would mean we're on our way to another humiliating cup competition. Personally, and I understand I'm in a minority, I don't go with the theory of playing potential. I want us to play the best at the moment and wait for potential to prove itself. It'll prove it at club level if it's really there. edit: They may be starting in France if the injured players don't recover and play well.
AKCJ Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 66 touches in the oppo box from 9 game has to be first by an absolute mile?! Insane stat.
Captain... Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 watching him play this year that would mean we're on our way to another humiliating cup competition. Personally, and I understand I'm in a minority, I don't go with the theory of playing potential. I want us to play the best at the moment and wait for potential to prove itself. It'll prove it at club level if it's really there. edit: They may be starting in France if the injured players don't recover and play well. When it comes to competition time we will play our best team, but in dead rubbers with some injuries against weaker opposition we should be trying things, like playing the top scoring Englishman last season, Kane, rather than Rooney with a knock, or the top scoring Englishman this season, both deserve to be in the squad. Experimentation is needed to work out our best team, and discover things about players, such as Vardy is not suited to a wide role. Hopefully he will get his chance down the middle, but without experimenting Roy won't find out how best to use him for England.
Guest Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 When it comes to competition time we will play our best team, but in dead rubbers with some injuries against weaker opposition we should be trying things, like playing the top scoring Englishman last season, Kane, rather than Rooney with a knock, or the top scoring Englishman this season, both deserve to be in the squad. Experimentation is needed to work out our best team, and discover things about players, such as Vardy is not suited to a wide role. Hopefully he will get his chance down the middle, but without experimenting Roy won't find out how best to use him for England. I have no problem with him experimenting in friendlies. It might be a good idea for the England management to talk with Prem managers and coaching staff asking about what players are best at and what they shouldn't be asked to do. They shouldn't be used in a role that they haven't ever played or are unsuited to play in an odd game for their country every now and again. Communication would be a big step forward.
AKCJ Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 When it comes to competition time we will play our best team, but in dead rubbers with some injuries against weaker opposition we should be trying things, like playing the top scoring Englishman last season, Kane, rather than Rooney with a knock, or the top scoring Englishman this season, both deserve to be in the squad. Experimentation is needed to work out our best team, and discover things about players, such as Vardy is not suited to a wide role. Hopefully he will get his chance down the middle, but without experimenting Roy won't find out how best to use him for England. If he wants to experiment then why has he played 4-3-3 (or 4-2-3-1 depending on which way you look at it) for all of the qualifiers? He's decided that he wants Rooney to be his number one striker and Kane to be his number 2 as they're the only two players to have played centre forward (unless you count the 15 minute Ings cameo against Estonia). We're not enjoyable to watch because Hodgson is the least adventurous manager I think i've ever seen. He's the F.A's yes man.
whoareyaaa Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Roy is pretty clueless and scared to change it up its as simple as that. We have tried to adopt the spanish way of playing by keeping the ball and sneaking 1 or 2 goals for the win, but we don't have the players the spanish did with ability on the ball to spray passes round. What we have is tons of PACE, if he can't see that we should be playing counter attacking football then we are going be straight out of the euros in the first knock out match.
filbertway Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Can someone explain to be how you use pace and counter attacking against a team unwilling to leave the edge of their area. We'll learn more about the team in the next 2 games than the qualifiers could ever show us. I imagine we'll be sitting deep and counter attacking against the better teams.
Guest Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Can someone explain to be how you use pace and counter attacking against a team unwilling to leave the edge of their area. We'll learn more about the team in the next 2 games than the qualifiers could ever show us. I imagine we'll be sitting deep and counter attacking against the better teams. sitting deep or being pushed deep? Let's hope he plays the best striker for that situation then.
filbertway Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 sitting deep or being pushed deep? Let's hope he plays the best striker for that situation then. Imagine if we sat deep against Estonia, it;d be ridiculously boring. Cahill, Hart and Smalling passing between themselves for 90 minutes while 1 or 2 players tried to close them down.
Wymsey Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 If he continues, he'll be one of the surprise top strikers in PL history. And shows, that money isn't everything - bargain buys can prove successful.
Guest Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 Imagine if we sat deep against Estonia, it;d be ridiculously boring. Cahill, Hart and Smalling passing between themselves for 90 minutes while 1 or 2 players tried to close them down. I'm agreeing with you!! However we were boring against Estonia. Maybe we should have played with just 1 defender.
filbertway Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 I'm agreeing with you!! However we were boring against Estonia. Maybe we should have played with just 1 defender. Pretty sure Pep Guardiola started doing that either with Barce or Bayern and basically playing a 2 5 3 formation. I do think there is some tactic out there that could destroy some of the containment tactics employed by some teams. Whoever figures out the winning formula will be a sought after guy.
Captain... Posted 20 October 2015 Posted 20 October 2015 If he wants to experiment then why has he played 4-3-3 (or 4-2-3-1 depending on which way you look at it) for all of the qualifiers? He's decided that he wants Rooney to be his number one striker and Kane to be his number 2 as they're the only two players to have played centre forward (unless you count the 15 minute Ings cameo against Estonia). We're not enjoyable to watch because Hodgson is the least adventurous manager I think i've ever seen. He's the F.A's yes man. He is experimenting with players, he has settled on his formation, rightly or wrongly, we have played that way through qualification and too much chopping and changing isn't good for the team, especially when they have limited time together. Again rightly or wrongly he is trying to find like for like players for his formation, which is why Vardy doesn't fit in as the spearhead o the attack, he can't play up front on his own, he needs players round him, but he will get up quickly to support the front man and also track back and defend which is why Hodgson thinks he can play as the wide forward, but it hasn't looked great so far.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.