filbertstreet Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Okazaki wasnt a Leicester player then. Hm this is really hard
Captain... Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 The frustrating thing about the match, and the woke qualifying group, is that we have learnt nothing. The match last night we scored through luck and opposition mistakes we carved out very few good clear cut chances the sort that we could create against good opposition. We have learnt nothing other than we are less shit than Lithuania. I don't remember many occasions were we ripped through them because of our quick, incisive, accurate passing. This is the most frustrating thing for Vardy, all teams are susceptible to a fast counter attack, it doesn't matter how good you are a fast counter before you can get in position will cause you problems. Now the opposition and the pitch didn't help but we almost never looked for it, and when we did it was so poorly executed it just served to highlight our technical flaws as a nation. We have learnt nothing in these qualifiers and still play a style of football that will be picked apart by any half decent nation.
notnow john Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 He usually plays with a barely controlled, unpredictable rage. Last night he could have been on mogodon.
Captain... Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Hm this is really hard Hasn't Worgan recently won the most caps as a current player with 15 or something, so you are looking at a small number of games for each player, you would have thought King vs Kasper would have been a possibility at some point.
Jon the Hat Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 JAMIE VARDY: There is a lot to admire in the rise of Vardy but this really is a step too far. Sorry, but willingness and endeavour should not be enough for an England side targeting a last-four place in France. Struggled with the speed of the surface, his heavy first touch too often leaving him scrambling for enough pitch to take a second. Really should have been first to the rebound when Kane was testing the goalkeeper. Surely a footnote to this qualifying campaign when Daniel Sturridge and Danny Welbeck are fit. F365 match ratings. Hard to argue to be honest. Shame.
Ric Flair Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Vardy playing last night is almost like the situation Kramaric finds himself in with us at the minute. You've simply got to take your chance however small and unusual it is. In an ideal world England would play a pressing game and look to hit teams on the counter attack as much as possible, we'd build our team around Vardy and have a couple of his mates in the squad to help keep him confident and settled. I can't help feel that Vardy would need a lot of time to develop with England before he was ready in his own mind to be effective, we've seen it at Leicester first in the Championship and then in the Premiership where he needs time at each new level to find his feet. Find his feet he certainly does and there is an international player in him but I doubt it's ever going to work out like that. He's not technical enough to prosper in the environment or style that England play, if we even have a style. It seems devoid of ideas at times and it can't be pleasant to try and make a name for yourself. He's not a winger, at best he can do a job out there but again he needs to have the same non stop enthusiasm and aggression as he does for Leicester. Last night he wasn't pressing that much or looking to make any positive runs, his first touch was dubious and all round it just didn't work for him. After seeing that you'd much rather have him play the last 15-20 mins of these matches for England but through the middle at a stage in games where even England could possibly stretch the opposition. Very frustrating. I hope he comes back proud that he's making appearances for England and it spurs him on to more success at club level but right now he's got to keep being one of the best strikers in the PL to make England take him seriously. He could be a useful weapon next summer in France from off the bench, but in this system we play he's not going to be anywhere near as effective as he is for Leicester. That's the way it is.
Alf Bentley Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Out of position or not, he looked strangely tentative last night, as if he didn't feel confident that he belonged there. Mind you, he was similar at first in the Championship and in the Premier League, and adapted in time. But how much time to adapt will he be offered at international level? Not much, I suspect. His routes into the squad for France 2016 may be: - Put in a performance against France, Spain and/or Germany in the friendlies (if selected) - Continue to have a good season for LCFC so as to be that 4th/5th striker option off the bench, offering something different in France There might be some chance of the former, IF he is selected again and IF he seizes his chance (2 big IFs). His pace on the break and runs into space are better suited to a game against stronger opposition who will be playing in our half more and with fewer men behind the ball. If I was Hodgson, I'd give him some time against one of the big boys to see how he responds. He needs to start believing that he is entitled to be an England international, though.
Captain... Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 I would imagine Hodgson told him not to play his pressing game, rightly so as he would be the only one doing it and would just run himself into the ground. There is no such move as the one man press, it is a team game and you press as a team or drop deep as a team, if Vardy goes chasing the ball when the opposition are in possession, especially as a "wide" player the team will lose shape and the full back will be exposed. For Vardy to be a regular starter he either needs to adapt his game to a slow patient structured game, or England need to change the way they play to accommodate him, I don't want one to happen and the other will never happen... ...but where he does have a role is as a sub, if we are losing, having a lot of possession and need a goal he would be a good option to bring on, his pace against tiring defenders would be very effective, the other situation is when we are defending a narrow lead and coming under pressure, he is a great out ball and he will pressurise from the front and keep them on their toes, knowing they can't all pour forwards as he will hit them on the break, this would allow him to play his natural aggressive game and benefit the team.
Dr The Singh Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 JAMIE VARDY: There is a lot to admire in the rise of Vardy but this really is a step too far. Sorry, but willingness and endeavour should not be enough for an England side targeting a last-four place in France. Struggled with the speed of the surface, his heavy first touch too often leaving him scrambling for enough pitch to take a second. Really should have been first to the rebound when Kane was testing the goalkeeper. Surely a footnote to this qualifying campaign when Daniel Sturridge and Danny Welbeck are fit. F365 match ratings. Hard to argue to be honest. Shame. Agreed, I don't think he will get a sniff when Welbeck and Sturridge are fit, I hope he is enjoying the well deserved experience though!!
Guest Col city fan Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Vardy playing last night is almost like the situation Kramaric finds himself in with us at the minute. You've simply got to take your chance however small and unusual it is. In an ideal world England would play a pressing game and look to hit teams on the counter attack as much as possible, we'd build our team around Vardy and have a couple of his mates in the squad to help keep him confident and settled. I can't help feel that Vardy would need a lot of time to develop with England before he was ready in his own mind to be effective, we've seen it at Leicester first in the Championship and then in the Premiership where he needs time at each new level to find his feet. Find his feet he certainly does and there is an international player in him but I doubt it's ever going to work out like that. He's not technical enough to prosper in the environment or style that England play, if we even have a style. It seems devoid of ideas at times and it can't be pleasant to try and make a name for yourself. He's not a winger, at best he can do a job out there but again he needs to have the same non stop enthusiasm and aggression as he does for Leicester. Last night he wasn't pressing that much or looking to make any positive runs, his first touch was dubious and all round it just didn't work for him. After seeing that you'd much rather have him play the last 15-20 mins of these matches for England but through the middle at a stage in games where even England could possibly stretch the opposition. Very frustrating. I hope he comes back proud that he's making appearances for England and it spurs him on to more success at club level but right now he's got to keep being one of the best strikers in the PL to make England take him seriously. He could be a useful weapon next summer in France from off the bench, but in this system we play he's not going to be anywhere near as effective as he is for Leicester. That's the way it is. Great post...
NewquayFox Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Not a good enough winger to play for England, definitely good enough coming off the bench in the central strikers role. He has played well against very good Premier league centre halfs this season so I think he will make the trip to the Euros.... Up the City....
Aus Fox Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Hm this is really hard I have spent my whole day researching this and I am going to say it's never happend! The closest I can find is 1967 when Peter Rodrigues played for Wales v England who had Gordon Banks in goal. (A couple of months after Banks had left for Stoke) I can find lots of examples of former and future leicester players on the same pitch, but not two leicester players in opposition. I hope I can be proved wrong or am missing something obvious.
Babylon Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 JAMIE VARDY: There is a lot to admire in the rise of Vardy but this really is a step too far. Sorry, but willingness and endeavour should not be enough for an England side targeting a last-four place in France. Struggled with the speed of the surface, his heavy first touch too often leaving him scrambling for enough pitch to take a second. Really should have been first to the rebound when Kane was testing the goalkeeper. Surely a footnote to this qualifying campaign when Daniel Sturridge and Danny Welbeck are fit. F365 match ratings. Hard to argue to be honest. Shame. It's very to easy to argue... targeting a last four place. Do me a favour, have they looked at the team.
Larry_LCFC Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 I do feel for Vardy. Playing out of position, in a an unfamiliar team full of selfish players and on a difficult pitch was never going to be an ideal environment to make a good impression. Ultimately he got swallowed up and was poor. He could be superb if used properly. Ultimately, I can't see it happening. Hope he keeps his head held high and comes back and grabs a load more for us. Give Woy a dilemna.
filbertstreet Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 I have spent my whole day researching this and I am going to say it's never happend! The closest I can find is 1967 when Peter Rodrigues played for Wales v England who had Gordon Banks in goal. (A couple of months after Banks had left for Stoke) I can find lots of examples of former and future leicester players on the same pitch, but not two leicester players in opposition. I hope I can be proved wrong or am missing something obvious. Nope, got it!! Ian Walker came on as a sub against Joey Gudjonsson http://uk.soccerway.com/matches/2004/06/05/world/friendlies/england/iceland/633377/
The Doctor Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Nope, got it!! Ian Walker came on as a sub against Joey Gudjonsson http://uk.soccerway.com/matches/2004/06/05/world/friendlies/england/iceland/633377/ Before gudjonsson joined.
Aus Fox Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 I thought I had it with England v Scotland in the 1999 playoffs. Heskey played for England, but Big Matty Elliott was out of favour and Callum Davidson hadn't joined us until a couple of months later.
daddylonglegs Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 I don't think that Jamie Vardy as a Leicester player will be in the Euro's. It's so embarrassing the favouritism within the England team within the players. Let's say he moves to a Spurs or an Everton or whoever in January, and continues his scoring record, I think only then will he start to get any respect. Especially as he completely missed the whole graduating through the under 21 national team, he would have gone to that first training session like a lost puppy, and I know he's an adult and a professional and everything but I can't help feel sorry for him. Playing a brand of football that doesn't suit him, and playing out of position. Hope the experience has made him a better player rather than damage his confidence.
Babylon Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Hope the experience has made him a better player rather than damage his confidence. The critisism he received last time didn't hurt him, in fact I think it probably serves to just make him more determined to prove people wrong.
daddylonglegs Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 The critisism he received last time didn't hurt him, in fact I think it probably serves to just make him more determined to prove people wrong. He certainly seems the type that would take this attitude, just hope his head doesn't drop!
AKCJ Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 I would say that we're on cloud cuckoo land if we think we're capable of a top 4 finish in France. I'd argue that we're in the same boat as the likes of Poland, Italy, Turkey and (dare I say it) Wales. France, Germany, Belgium and Spain will be the top 4. I would also suggest that someone with Vardy's endeavor and form of 7 goals in 8 games are attributes that any striker going to France would absolutely love. Vardy is a victim of being unfashionable, not playing for a big club and being utilised in completely the wrong way for England. He's not a media darling and he doesn't play for a club that the media are fond of. He can't become a poster boy and that bothers the F.A. I'm also convinced that, if we were to utilise him correctly that his team mates would shine. We should line up with a diamond, Rooney at the tip of it behind Kane and Vardy. Both Rooney and Kane would profit immensely from the space Vardy creates. He's not suddenly become a bad player because he's not played right for England. He absolutely is good enough and he is proving that for us in Premier League games. He's obviously a limited striker, which highlights the fact that if you want the very best of Jamie Vardy then you've got to put him into a system that suits him.
Nalis Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 If this how we feel about Vardy being played out of position for England, I would love to have seen a Man United forum when Scholes, England's most creative player at the time, was constantly played out of position for England.
CosbehFox Posted 13 October 2015 Posted 13 October 2015 Would love to see him given a final chance against France or Spain as it would be more favourable but personally feel he's missed out now.
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