Finnaldo Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 Could the ref still give the goal and a red card? Since you can't play advantage when you want to send someone off.Good point. Probably a booking would be best in that case.
Captain... Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 You often see the keeper clatter a player after they have shot. The problem is the keeper is legally allowed to jump in and catch/punch the ball and regular puts his fists in where other players are putting their head in, which makes it different to an outfield player. If you go to kick the ball and someone does a diving header and heads the ball and you kick their head it isn't a foul. Think of John Terry being knocked out in the cup final: https://youtu.be/8GEB-TYLMmQ No foul I think it is the same here, Guzan has every right to go for the ball and 9 times out of 10 the attacker would back out as it really should have been keeper's ball, Dyer had absolutely no right to get that and you can't expect keepers to not go for that. If Kasper pussied out of going for a ball like that he would be slaughtered on here. No reason to go back and book him for doing his job, even if Dyer hadn't scored I still think it wouldn't be given as a foul as he has no right to score from there, I still don't really understand how he did.
AyewJoking Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 Careful what you wish for, there was an awkward moment yesterday when I thought the twat the ref was going to give us a freekick instead of the goal.
LCCFox96 Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 Thought it was an entirely fair challenge from Guzan. One of those where Dyer knows if he puts his head in, he likely gets a goal but takes a whack for the team. Don't think it could be categorised as dangerous player from Guzan or Dyer.
BoyJones Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 Could the ref still give the goal and a red card? Since you can't play advantage when you want to send someone off. Yes, dangerous play. Anywhere else on the pitch that would have been a card, probably red. Coming out with two fists, kneecaps etc must constitute dangerous play when you miss the ball but not the man. Of course, the keeper is allowed to go for the ball, but if he punches / body checks the player instead because his timing is out or he misjudges the flight of the ball a la Guzan, it has to be a foul. Ref bottled it IMO.
Guest kristianity77 Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 Careful what you wish for, there was an awkward moment yesterday when I thought the twat the ref was going to give us a freekick instead of the goal. A free kick for what?
ARM1968 Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 You only have to watch the replays to see Guzans intent. It wasn't to get the ball. His eyes and fists were locked on Dyers head. He should have walked.
MPH Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 Yes, dangerous play. Anywhere else on the pitch that would have been a card, probably red. Coming out with two fists, kneecaps etc must constitute dangerous play when you miss the ball but not the man. Of course, the keeper is allowed to go for the ball, but if he punches / body checks the player instead because his timing is out or he misjudges the flight of the ball a la Guzan, it has to be a foul. Ref bottled it IMO. Could it not just be that Dyer outsmarted him/ was quicker? Which is entirely different to the the GK misjudging the ball. If every time the GK goes for the ball and doesnt get there, and he every time has misjudged the situation, doesnt it suggest that the GK has a divine right to get the ball every time? Which we all of course know is not true....
Blanesta Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 It was a nasty one, I've not watched it back so I'll reserve judgement. I'm just glad Dyer was ok.
AyewJoking Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 A free kick for what? Cuzan floored Dyer, sorry I meant peno.
AKCJ Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 He was absolutely entitled to go for the ball. It was a 50-50 challenge. Good grief... Goalkeepers no longer allowed to go for the ball. Whatever next? That's not the point. He's obviously entitled to challenge for it. He's not entitled to smash into him when he realises he's made his mistake in he hope he'll miss. It'd have been a pen if it went wide.
JadeFalcon Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 imho yes the keeper is allowed to go for the ball in a 50/50 challenge.... he should have been red carded for using his knee like that, could have broken dyers neck
Hollism Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 Yes, dangerous play. Anywhere else on the pitch that would have been a card, probably red. Coming out with two fists, kneecaps etc must constitute dangerous play when you miss the ball but not the man. Of course, the keeper is allowed to go for the ball, but if he punches / body checks the player instead because his timing is out or he misjudges the flight of the ball a la Guzan, it has to be a foul. Ref bottled it IMO. I meant that if the ref chooses to send Guzan off, he has to stop play immediately, send him off and award a penalty.
TheUltimateWinner Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 If a player went into a Keeper like that from a corner it would be counted as a foul... So why isn't it the same the other way round?
justfoxes Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 I think what that article was going on about that goalkeepers who rush into rash challenges are not being punished like outfield players as there are some that don't even go for the ball just the man yet they are being let off where as if it was an outfield player they would be carded so what's the difference why should keepers take out players and not suffer the same consequences but like has been said before they would be the last man and therefore must see red but that opens up a whole new problem! Some say keepers are over protected by the officialls!
ARM1968 Posted 14 September 2015 Posted 14 September 2015 To be fair you give a peno, red Guzan and we might have missed the spot kick. Ref should have at least shown Guzan a yellow. I've watched it back several times and Guzans intent is plain to see. He's focussed on smashing dyer. His eyes give it away.
justfoxes Posted 15 September 2015 Posted 15 September 2015 To be fair you give a peno, red Guzan and we might have missed the spot kick. Ref should have at least shown Guzan a yellow. I've watched it back several times and Guzans intent is plain to see. He's focussed on smashing dyer. His eyes give it away. This is where retrospective discipline needs to come about the Fa and Pl need to go over the evidence and give him a retrospective ban as a mate of mine who is a vile fan said exactly the same that Guzans only intent was to take out Dyer !! But they won't they will just brush over the incident !
DB11 Posted 15 September 2015 Posted 15 September 2015 I meant that if the ref chooses to send Guzan off, he has to stop play immediately, send him off and award a penalty. Where's it say that in the laws of the game?
deep blue Posted 15 September 2015 Posted 15 September 2015 I meant that if the ref chooses to send Guzan off, he has to stop play immediately, send him off and award a penalty. That's surely incorrect. The ref can allow play to carry on and then, when a break in play occurs (in this case when the ball crosses the line and a goal is awarded) retrospectively punish (in this case a red card) the offender.
RowlattsFox Posted 15 September 2015 Posted 15 September 2015 Would Dean have given a pen if the ball didn't drop in? Not convinced he would have done.
Finnaldo Posted 15 September 2015 Posted 15 September 2015 That's surely incorrect. The ref can allow play to carry on and then, when a break in play occurs (in this case when the ball crosses the line and a goal is awarded) retrospectively punish (in this case a red card) the offender. No I'm sure that's only the case with yellows. No advantage can be played if the player's gonna walk
Countryfox Posted 15 September 2015 Author Posted 15 September 2015 I brought this up to start with cus I would like to see a change in how refs deal with this. Many many moons ago I was in a similar situation .... A player had coming running in and I'd left him in a heap, (it was only a local Sunday league match on a park) ... But I knew what I was doing ... The lad on the floor knew what I was doing (he'd just scored 10 minutes before) .. And 20 other players on the pitch knew what I was doing ! ... The ref bottled it of course and justice was meted out by their centre forward who smacked me in the mouth. Now I know there is a bit of a gulf between that game and the one last Sunday but the DNA is still the same ... Guzman wasn't a happy bunny having just conceded 2 goals and neither was I ... We both knew what we were doing. In my opinion he should have been carded ... Whether red or yellow is a whole new can of worms as the keeper is always likely to be the last man .... Perhaps refs should have the discretion to use yellows in cases like this. Ok it's another one for the ref to make a call on but that's only the same as him determining a foul or a dive which has become more prevalent over the years. I think it would help the game and give players more confidence to challenge the keeper knowing if they get clattered (the player) the keeper will be punished ... Thus making them think before rushing in with intent. And it might help stop serious injury .... I think Nathan Dyer was a very very lucky boy not to have suffered something much worse.
Sir Fynwy Posted 15 September 2015 Posted 15 September 2015 I brought this up to start with cus I would like to see a change in how refs deal with this. Many many moons ago I was in a similar situation .... A player had coming running in and I'd left him in a heap, (it was only a local Sunday league match on a park) ... But I knew what I was doing ... The lad on the floor knew what I was doing (he'd just scored 10 minutes before) .. And 20 other players on the pitch knew what I was doing ! ... The ref bottled it of course and justice was meted out by their centre forward who smacked me in the mouth. Now I know there is a bit of a gulf between that game and the one last Sunday but the DNA is still the same ... Guzman wasn't a happy bunny having just conceded 2 goals and neither was I ... We both knew what we were doing. In my opinion he should have been carded ... Whether red or yellow is a whole new can of worms as the keeper is always likely to be the last man .... Perhaps refs should have the discretion to use yellows in cases like this. Ok it's another one for the ref to make a call on but that's only the same as him determining a foul or a dive which has become more prevalent over the years. I think it would help the game and give players more confidence to challenge the keeper knowing if they get clattered (the player) the keeper will be punished ... Thus making them think before rushing in with intent. And it might help stop serious injury .... I think Nathan Dyer was a very very lucky boy not to have suffered something much worse. I got sent off once for dislocating a forwards hip when playing in goal, there was no intent he ran onto my knee as I jumped up to catch a high ball but the ref decided it was dangerous play.
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 15 September 2015 Posted 15 September 2015 If, hypothetically, the goalie had punched it clear, and Dyer follow through and clattered into him, unless there was a clear advantage to be played it would have immediately been given as a foul on the keeper. Clear foul in my opinion. The ref should have played advantage in our favour, let the ball run into the net, given the goal and then booked the keeper.
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