Truck Drives Through Crowd in Nice, France

[Guest MattP]

I was getting at he might have zero links to ISIS at all, have ISIS even claimed any reponsibility?

 

I don't think they claim responsibility for the ones here anymore, they just call on followers to "commit lone wolf attacks all across Europe" - http://isis.liveuamap.com/en/2016/15-july-isis-is-again-pushing-its-message-for-lone-wolf-attacks

 

Unfortunately these are always going to be the hardest to stop as well, although questions surely have to be asked tonight how barricades weren't up for a closed road with thousands of people gathered together in a country still in a state of emergency.

[Finnaldo]

I was getting at he might have zero links to ISIS at all, have ISIS even claimed any reponsibility?

 

Probably not, I mean the Orlando shooter shouted about the Islamic State but I doubt he had anything to do with them until he thought it would be easy justification.

 

I'm pretty much agreeing with your point, the Orlando shooter was a lone wolf who likely used a terror organisation he had no affiliation or contact with as justification, just as Dylan Roof wrote a full white nationalist manifesto before attacking a black church, ad the Oregon shooter had Asperger Syndrome and used an atheist/white supremacist platform he likely just made up for justification. I'd imagine this guy's the exact same.  

[Guest MattP]

Incredible how many attacks France has had now in just a few years.

 

11-22 March 2012

  Shooting 7 5 Toulouse and Montauban shootings, murdering three French paratroopers, a French Rabbi and three French schoolchildren (aged eight, six and three) carried out over a period of 11 days by Mohammed Merah.^[1]23 May 2013 Stabbing 0 1 2013 La Défense attack by an Islamist knifeman against a French soldier in the Paris suburb of La Défense. 20 December 2014 Stabbing 0 3 2014 Tours police station stabbing. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" attacked a police office in Joué-lès-Tours with a knife. He was killed and 3 police officers were injured. 21 December 2014 Vehicle ramming 0 11 2014 Dijon attack. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" ran over 11 pedestrians with his vehicle. 22 December 2014 Vehicle ramming 1 10 2014 Nantes attack. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" ran over 10 pedestrians with his vehicle, killing one, then attempted suicide. 7-9 January 2015 Shooting 20 22 January 2015 Île-de-France attacks, a mass shooting at the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo office in Paris, carried out by Saïd and Chérif Kouachi, two Islamist gunmen who identified themselves as belonging to Al-Qaeda in Yemen.^[1] During this period, a third Islamist gunman and close friend of the Kouachi brothers, Amedy Coulibaly was responsible for two shootings and an hostage taking at a Hypercacher kosher market. He said he synchronized his attacks with the Kouachi brothers. Coulibaly had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. 3 February 2015 Stabbing 0 3 3 military men, guarding a Jewish community center in Nice, are attacked by Moussa Coulibaly (not related to the January Coulibaly attacks). 19 April 2015 Shooting 1 0 Unsuccessful attack against 2 churches in Villejuif by an Algerian jihadist. He killed a woman probably when trying to steal her car but accidentally shot himself in the leg, putting an end to his plans.^[22]26 June 2015 Beheading 1 2 Saint-Quentin-Fallavier attack. An Islamist delivery driver probably linked to ISIS decapitated a man and rammed a company van into gas cylinders at the Air Products gas factory in an attempt to blow up the building. 21 August 2015 Shooting and stabbing 0 4 2015 Thalys train attack. An attempted mass shooting occurred on a train traveling from Amsterdam to Paris. Four people were injured, including the assailant who was subdued by other passengers.^[23]13-14 November 2015 Shootings, hostage taking and suicide bombings 130 352 November 2015 Paris attacks. The single deadliest terrorist attack in French history. Multiple shooting and grenade attacks occurred on a Friday night; among the locations targeted were a music venue, sports stadium and several bar and restaurant terraces. 90 persons were killed during a siege at an Eagles of Death Metal concert inside the Bataclan. French president François Hollande evacuated from a football match between France and Germany at the Stade de France, slated venue for the UEFA Euro 2016 Final, after three separate suicide bombings over the course of about 40 minutes. ISIS claimed responsibility for the attacks and President Hollande named the Paris attacks an "'act of war'".^[24]1 January 2016 Vehicle ramming 0 2 A man rammed his car twice into 4 soldiers protecting a mosque in Valence. He said he wanted to kill troops and jihadi propaganda images were found on his computer.^[25]7 January 2016 Stabbing 0 1 January 2016 Paris police station attack, a jihadist wearing a fake explosive belt attacked police officers in the Goutte d'Or district in Paris with a meat cleaver, while shouting "Allahu Akbar". He was shot dead and one policeman receiving injuries. The ISIS flag and a clearly written claim in Arabic, were found on the attacker.^[26]13 June 2016 Stabbing 2 0 2016 Magnanville stabbing, a police officer and his wife, a police secretary, were stabbed to death in their home in Magnanville by a jihadist. ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack. 14 July 2016 Vehicle ramming 84 100+ 2016 attack in Nice, terrorists used a truck to run over people celebrating the 2016 Bastille Day.

[Manwell Pablo]

Probably not, I mean the Orlando shooter shouted about the Islamic State but I doubt he had anything to do with them until he thought it would be easy justification.

 

I'm pretty much agreeing with your point, the Orlando shooter was a lone wolf who likely used a terror organisation he had no affiliation or contact with as justification, just as Dylan Roof wrote a full white nationalist manifesto before attacking a black church, ad the Oregon shooter had Asperger Syndrome and used an atheist/white supremacist platform he likely just made up for justification. I'd imagine this guy's the exact same.  

 

Yeah I get what your saying, but is it even that? Is there any indication of his motives at all? It seems to me people are seeing mass murder and muslim and coming up with extremist terroism.  

 

It is possibly he's just a nut case, not all of them have a cause.

[leicsmac]

Yeah I get what your saying, but is it even that? Is there any indication of his motives at all? It seems to me people are seeing mass murder and muslim and coming up with extremist terroism.  

 

It is possibly he's just a nut case, not all of them have a cause.

 

Stop coming in here with your logic and rationality Pabs, you'll ruin the narrative.

[Buce]

Well I've not heard that, but nobody who's ever likely to be in power in this country is ever likely to go down that road.

I was thinking more specifically of France, and it's not stretching the imagination too far that the Front Nationale could be in power one day.

[Guest MattP]

The picture of the child under a sheet with the teddy bear next to it has set me off, not usually huge on emotion but brought me to tears.

It takes a cnut to blow up a bar or a train but a real special cnut to steamroller young children out watching the fireworks with families.

[Kitchandro]

Yeah I get what your saying, but is it even that? Is there any indication of his motives at all? It seems to me people are seeing mass murder and muslim and coming up with extremist terroism.  

 

It is possibly he's just a nut case, not all of them have a cause.

 

The evidence tends to stack up though when these mass murderers are Muslims time and again.

 

None of them have a cause, the supposed cause of every terrorist is bullshit. But they all think they have a cause.

 

Of course they're all nut cases, but they're nuts because they're surrounded by their own backwards, strict cultures which are bound to lead to what we call 'extremism' from time to time.

 

Yeh the bloke who shot up the gaybar frequented the gaybar. And he was a Muslim. It all points to his backward, homophobic religion making him feel so ashamed of being gay that he went nuts and felt he had to shoot up the place to cleanse him of what his religion considers evil.

 

Anyway, the point is it's not a coincidence that a lot of them are Muslim.

[Guest MattP]

As usual, Maajid Nawaz has it spot on.

People are already saying: "but the Nice terrorist wasn't pious. See! It has nothing to do with Islam".

Please stop.

Your good intentions towards us Muslims are only making the problem worse. This is as dangerous as saying it is *everything* to do with Islam. The Crusaders weren't pious. But they had *something* to do with Christianity, right? Right? That something was the desire impious religious peasants had for martyrdom & the religious promise of redemption that Pope Urban II gave them. Now switch out white Christians with brown Muslims and kindly cease with this bigotry of low expectations.

This has *something* to do with Islam.

Instead of aiding extremists who insist Islam today is perfect, perhaps you should aid us beleaguered reformists Muslims who are attempting to address this crisis within Islam against all the odds.

Some Solidarity, please.

[MPH]

Yeah I get what your saying, but is it even that? Is there any indication of his motives at all? It seems to me people are seeing mass murder and muslim and coming up with extremist terroism.  

 

It is possibly he's just a nut case, not all of them have a cause.

 

 

 

He may be just a nut case, but i dont think its any coincidence that the 14th July was the day ( Bastille day) so he seems to of put some pre planned thought into it...

[purpleronnie]

It's so horrendous I can't face to see the pictures or videos, I've only read small amounts.  When children are involved it affects me so deeply I can't sleep.  I'm not sure what the answer is or if there is one. 

[MikeyT]

Just seen a video on the Fox News website of the aftermath just moments after the truck hit the people. Someone walking through the crowd filming with the phone, showing the victims all lying on the floor. Absolutely horrific scenes there. Can't even begin to remotely imagine what it must have been like. Heart goes out to them. 

 

I will be back in Paris in November at exactly 1 year on from last year's terror attacks (of which i was only a couple of streets from). 

[Manwell Pablo]

As usual, Maajid Nawaz has it spot on.

People are already saying: "but the Nice terrorist wasn't pious. See! It has nothing to do with Islam".

Please stop.

Your good intentions towards us Muslims are only making the problem worse. This is as dangerous as saying it is *everything* to do with Islam. The Crusaders weren't pious. But they had *something* to do with Christianity, right? Right? That something was the desire impious religious peasants had for martyrdom & the religious promise of redemption that Pope Urban II gave them. Now switch out white Christians with brown Muslims and kindly cease with this bigotry of low expectations.

This has *something* to do with Islam.

Instead of aiding extremists who insist Islam today is perfect, perhaps you should aid us beleaguered reformists Muslims who are attempting to address this crisis within Islam against all the odds.

Some Solidarity, please.

 

I think it's pretty dangerous to say it is to do with Islam if it's not.

 

I, for one, don't want ISIS getting credit for something they have nothing to do with, surely that's what they want. Thats why I am asking.

 

Maybe his motives were religiously motivated but if not it needs to be made clear. ISIS would claim Mabbuts own goal in the 1987 FA  cup final if they could.

[Guest MattP]

I think it's pretty dangerous to say it is to do with Islam if it's not.

 

I, for one, don't want ISIS getting credit for something they have nothing to do with, surely that's what they want. Thats why I am asking.

 

Maybe his motives were religiously motivated but if not it needs to be made clear. ISIS would claim Mabbuts own goal in the 1987 FA  cup final if they could.

 

ISIS have called for these attacks and we've had numerous occasions where people have acted on it, it's almost becoming a carbon copy of Hamas in Israel now who about ten years ago pretty much ceased bombing and instead staging regular attacks from inspired lone wolves involving running people down at bus stops rather than using suicide attacks, the security services get on top of them so they can't get the weaponary, so they have to start to use everyday things to maim and kill instead of guns and bombs.

 

I don't think there is any doubt this person believed he would be rewarded for his actions through religion, he intended to sacrifice his own life to do what he did.

[Wymsey]

A terrible case of De Ja Vu.

Just shows 'State of Emergency' can battle against terrorism effectively.

But the UK needs to remain on high alert as we're certainly not protected from any terrorism.

[Thracian]

I think it's pretty dangerous to say it is to do with Islam if it's not.

 

I, for one, don't want ISIS getting credit for something they have nothing to do with, surely that's what they want. Thats why I am asking.

 

Maybe his motives were religiously motivated but if not it needs to be made clear. ISIS would claim Mabbuts own goal in the 1987 FA  cup final if they could.

 

Being reportedly French-Tunisian, it's highly likely the excuse for humanity who did this was a Muslim, given that 98% of Tunisians are Muslim. Did he somehow want to follow in the steps of the Sousse (Tunisia) beach killer? Especially with the crime scene being all but alongside the beach. 

 

It's all speculation at the moment.

 

And while the actions of the man who caused the Nice carnage were in complete contrast to the pleasant, seemingly peace-loving and highly intelligent Tunisians I came to know over the last six years, I have to say those Tunisians were all female.

.   .

That said there's no telling yet if the Nice killer was a committed Islamic fanatic (IS connected or not) or simply a wacko who perhaps wanted to write his own name into the pages of notoriety - with any connection to Islam being incidental. No I don't imagine it, but it is possible.   

 

Whatever, I'm sure he'll have justified his murderous deeds in some way because, like others, I'd doubt his choice of date was accidental which indicates pre-meditated murder rather than a reactive action caused by other factors. 

 

What bothers me again is that the guy was known to the Police and, yet again, he was free to walk the streets.

 

Islam connected or not, you have to be seriously disturbed to drive into 100s of people, leaving  dead and maimed bodies of random women, children and guys lying all over the place.   

 

And don't forget that some of those people were said to be Muslims so I don't suppose their families were happy with what went on either.

 

Among my first questions would be to ask what was known about the lorry driver and why was he walking free?

 

.          

[Nick]

Being reportedly French-Tunisian, it's highly likely the excuse for humanity who did this was a Muslim, given that 98% of Tunisians are Muslim. Did he somehow want to follow in the steps of the Sousse (Tunisia) beach killer? Especially with the crime scene being all but alongside the beach.

It's all speculation at the moment.

And while the actions of the man who caused the Nice carnage were in complete contrast to the pleasant, seemingly peace-loving and highly intelligent Tunisians I came to know over the last six years, I have to say those Tunisians were all female.

. .

That said there's no telling yet if the Nice killer was a committed Islamic fanatic (IS connected or not) or simply a wacko who perhaps wanted to write his own name into the pages of notoriety - with any connection to Islam being incidental. No I don't imagine it, but it is possible.

Whatever, I'm sure he'll have justified his murderous deeds in some way because, like others, I'd doubt his choice of date was accidental which indicates pre-meditated murder rather than a reactive action caused by other factors.

What bothers me again is that the guy was known to the Police and, yet again, he was free to walk the streets.

Islam connected or not, you have to be seriously disturbed to drive into 100s of people, leaving dead and maimed bodies of random women, children and guys lying all over the place.

And don't forget that some of those people were said to be Muslims so I don't suppose their families were happy with what went on either.

Among my first questions would be to ask what was known about the lorry driver and why was he walking free?

.

He wasn't known to security services - just known for smaller unrelated crimes.

Agg - Assault, DV and Robbery I understand are not small crimes - just not on the same scale as this, obviously.

[Dr The Singh]

BBC is a real joke, whenever a british pakistani, Bangladeshi rapes, murders etc, they call them Asian. This is a French guy is called a Tunisian, why not African

[Trav Le Bleu]

ISIS have called for these attacks and we've had numerous occasions where people have acted on it, it's almost becoming a carbon copy of Hamas in Israel now who about ten years ago pretty much ceased bombing and instead staging regular attacks from inspired lone wolves involving running people down at bus stops rather than using suicide attacks, the security services get on top of them so they can't get the weaponary, so they have to start to use everyday things to maim and kill instead of guns and bombs.

 

I don't think there is any doubt this person believed he would be rewarded for his actions through religion, he intended to sacrifice his own life to do what he did.

 

The internet plays a big part in this. It's almost the whole part, in that without it, the spread of ISIS propoganda could be stopped at borders (or at least drastically curtailled), but anyone, anywhere (except perhaps, ironically, totalitarian states like China and North Korea) can access their filth. In times past, let's look back to the IRA, it was organised cells, who were trained and who had connections, which made it possible on occasion to thwart thair attacks. Can't remember a single IRA attack that was purely someone acting of their own volition without direction. ISIS say to disaffected people, "Look, if you can't get out here to join us fighting in the battlefield, kill people over there. Any Westerner is a fair target, the whole world is our battlefield. You don't even need weapons, just use whatever is at hand." You don't even need to get people from the Middle-east into the country - if you can turn one 2nd or 3rd generation, well they're already there.

 

Obviously, these kind of people are in the vast minority, but just one is too many. Unfortunately, with this methodology, you don't know until it's too late. They don't need to set foot inside a mosque to be radicalised (I'm not here saying that this is what mosques do, just that some people believe this and there may be some extremist mosques, as there may be extremist churches/synagogues/temples too), you can get radicalised sitting at home whilst alt-tabbing between FoxesTalk and whatever the ISIS homepage is.

BBC is a real joke, whenever a british pakistani, Bangladeshi rapes, murders etc, they call them Asian. This is a French guy is called a Tunisian, why not African

 

Did they call him Asian?

[The Guvnor]

Just looking in to the reasons why France seems to get so many attacks.

 

Lots on the web, I think a lot is down to being accessible and easy.

 

• High levels of youth unemployment.
• Large number of French troops stationed abroad who have been involved in military actions within Muslim countries such as Mali.
• Porous borders.
• Perceived failure to absorb people of different cultural & ethnic backgrounds.
• Strong resistance to religious incursions into the French political sphere.
• High levels of tourism.
• Troubled colonial past

.......not suggesting there should be any reason, just comments that I found

 

Maajid Nawaz mentioned today on tv that Charlie Hebdo and the banning of the Niqab as possible causes of increased terrorism in France.

[Dr The Singh]

The internet plays a big part in this. It's almost the whole part, in that without it, the spread of ISIS propoganda could be stopped at borders (or at least drastically curtailled), but anyone, anywhere (except perhaps, ironically, totalitarian states like China and North Korea) can access their filth. In times past, let's look back to the IRA, it was organised cells, who were trained and who had connections, which made it possible on occasion to thwart thair attacks. Can't remember a single IRA attack that was purely someone acting of their own volition without direction. ISIS say to disaffected people, "Look, if you can't get out here to join us fighting in the battlefield, kill people over there. Any Westerner is a fair target, the whole world is our battlefield. You don't even need weapons, just use whatever is at hand." You don't even need to get people from the Middle-east into the country - if you can turn one 2nd or 3rd generation, well they're already there.

Obviously, these kind of people are in the vast minority, but just one is too many. Unfortunately, with this methodology, you don't know until it's too late. They don't need to set foot inside a mosque to be radicalised (I'm not here saying that this is what mosques do, just that some people believe this and there may be some extremist mosques, as there may be extremist churches/synagogues/temples too), you can get radicalised sitting at home whilst alt-tabbing between FoxesTalk and whatever the ISIS homepage is.

Did they call him Asian?

They didn't call him African, they actually labeled him correctly, but with British incidents is fooked up term Asian

[Wymsey]

Sky News reporting 52 in critical condition, with 25 of those in 'very' critical.

Bad and sad all round.

I thought, after security success at The Euros, the country would somewhat recover further. But many are probably fearing when they hear a loud banging noise and possibly some even afraid of going out in busy public places.

[Merging Cultures]

They didn't call him African, they actually labeled him correctly, but with British incidents is fooked up term Asian

Maybe they'd stretch to North African if they were going to generalise. Because I'm sure he was much lighter in complexion than the majority of sub-Saharan Africans, it would be confusing to the public to say he was 'African'.

But I understand your point that the BBC shouldn't use the generic label 'Asians'.

[Dr The Singh]

Maybe they'd stretch to North African if they were going to generalise. Because I'm sure he was much lighter in complexion than the majority of sub-Saharan Africans, it would be confusing to the public to say he was 'African'.

But I understand your point that the BBC shouldn't use the generic label 'Asians'.

I understand your point about Africa, but the same applies to Asia is a region with brown, orientals, dark pigmies, Caucasians, Aryans, and mixture between them far more differing then Africa

[Merging Cultures]

I understand your point about Africa, but the same applies to Asia is a region with brown, orientals, dark pigmies, Caucasians, Aryans, and mixture between them far more differing then Africa

Exactly why I said I agreed with your point!