The Railway Man Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 3 minutes ago, Larry_LCFC said: I would rather the police be there to deal with any serious violence than get tied up with stupid, moronic idiots that can't handle their drink. You really don't think things would have escalated if the limited police had swooped in? All their mates get involved and suddenly you have a mini riot on your hands because someone can't keep their mouth shut. They should be there to enforce the law, that includes everything from throwing missiles to public drunkeness to serious violence. The idea that the police don't arrest stupid moronic idiots for committing crimes in case they cause a mini riot is the attitude that the idiots have won over the law abiding. No wonder people fee free to behave in this way if they also know the police won't move in as they are scared of it escalating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_LCFC Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 4 minutes ago, The Railway Man said: They should be there to enforce the law, that includes everything from throwing missiles to public drunkeness to serious violence. The idea that the police don't arrest stupid moronic idiots for committing crimes in case they cause a mini riot is the attitude that the idiots have won over the law abiding. No wonder people fee free to behave in this way if they also know the police won't move in as they are scared of it escalating. More to the point, how are you so certain they weren't dealing with it? How do you know they werent collared as they left? I saw cops with video cameras filming groups of idiots so how do you know there won't be retrospective action as often happens? The answer you're looking for is, you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyfox Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 5 minutes ago, The Railway Man said: They should be there to enforce the law, that includes everything from throwing missiles to public drunkeness to serious violence. The idea that the police don't arrest stupid moronic idiots for committing crimes in case they cause a mini riot is the attitude that the idiots have won over the law abiding. No wonder people fee free to behave in this way if they also know the police won't move in as they are scared of it escalating. I thought the police handled it very well actually. I reckon our road blocking guy was very close to being nicked, but his one megabyte brain just about kicked in enough to realise and the situation was dffused. The police moved in and maintained a more visible presence. Whilst I wouldn't have been upset to see him hauled out and nicked (because he was being a tool), this would have escallated the situation creating more danger for innocent bystanders. Besides, a lot of this stuff is recorded, and the police have been known to arrest people long after the actual incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyfox Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 Just now, Larry_LCFC said: More to the point, how are you so certain they weren't dealing with it? How do you know they werent collared as they left? I saw cops with video cameras filming groups of idiots so how do you know there won't be retrospective action as often happens? The answer you're looking for is, you don't. Just made exactly the same point at the same time you posted! We should be thankful that our police don't go in baton charging everyone just because some bloke is acting like a cvnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsell1976 Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 5 minutes ago, The Railway Man said: They should be there to enforce the law, that includes everything from throwing missiles to public drunkeness to serious violence. The idea that the police don't arrest stupid moronic idiots for committing crimes in case they cause a mini riot is the attitude that the idiots have won over the law abiding. No wonder people fee free to behave in this way if they also know the police won't move in as they are scared of it escalating. Spot on, it's ignoring the anti social behaviour, that can escalate into violence. All it takes is someone to react to the their behaviour, and violence can soon follow, both parties friends get involved, and we know how that ends. Appeasement has never worked, the history books show that, so the police and authorities should have the infrastructure, and resources in place to deal with all levels of violence and anti social behaviour at big events, and start to deal with the idiots amongst the fans that want to enjoy the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie93 Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 26 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said: It did get a bit out of hand outside The Torch about 14:00. We were at the far end of the garden on the raised bit so I could see quite a lot of what was going on over the fence, I saw the Police horses come in and quite a lot got thrown at them from both inside and outside the fence. On the subject of the smoke bombs, I don't really get the point of letting one off in the pub before the game. On a large scale in Europe it looks incredible but when you light one that you bought off ebay in a beer garden you look a bit of a prat. Especially when the people who let them off have an infatuation with throwing them halfway through. One got thrown in our direction by the group down on the decking. I was stood right by the road when they moved in, nothing got thrown at them. There was a group of about 10 little lads who were throwing beer in the air, nothing more. The problem with this forum is people exaggerate what they saw and everyone says how we have "terrible" fans. Its embarrassing on both sides. Some fans need to grow up, and some need to get off their high horse, and accept that its the nature of the beast, that at football, you always have and always will get a small minority of idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Railway Man Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 4 minutes ago, Larry_LCFC said: More to the point, how are you so certain they weren't dealing with it? How do you know they werent collared as they left? I saw cops with video cameras filming groups of idiots so how do you know there won't be retrospective action as often happens? The answer you're looking for is, you don't. Well if that happens you'll be the first to receive an apology, we both know nothing will come of it though. They saw people committing numerous crimes on Saturday and chose to ignore it, that's the sort of society we have become now. 3 minutes ago, stripeyfox said: Just made exactly the same point at the same time you posted! We should be thankful that our police don't go in baton charging everyone just because some bloke is acting like a cvnt I'm not asking them to baton charge everyone in sight, just to arrest the people they see committing crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 The police, and just as importantly, the courts, just don't have the resources to deal with every daft bastard that steps out of line being arrested. Do we have any coppers on here? I was told by one ages ago that the paperwork for a single arrest took god knows how many hours on the part of the arresting officer, so there was always this dilemma about whether nicking someone was worth it as doing the admin would inevitably take them away from actual policing for a stupid length of time. I expect the Met have got enough on their plate dealing with the pathologically criminal local population (I JEST, GOOD PEOPLE OF LONDON) without clogging up the system with out of towners. Keep an eye on them, make sure they don't do anything too outrageous (or at least, likely to result in a custodial sentence), cross your fingers that the benefit of the amount spent on lager and burgers on the local economy outweighs the cost of the clean up and any damage, pack them back on to the buses and trains after the end of the game and return them to whence they came. This has been the model for policing football matches for as long as I can remember. I'm not saying it's right, it's just how it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 11 minutes ago, Ollie93 said: I was stood right by the road when they moved in, nothing got thrown at them. There was a group of about 10 little lads who were throwing beer in the air, nothing more. The problem with this forum is people exaggerate what they saw and everyone says how we have "terrible" fans. Its embarrassing on both sides. Some fans need to grow up, and some need to get off their high horse, and accept that its the nature of the beast, that at football, you always have and always will get a small minority of idiots. OK well if I was mistaken then I take it back, like you said a lot of stuff was getting thrown about and I was watching from a different angle than you. From my perspective something could have look like it was on a different trajectory which might have made it look like it was thrown at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 23 minutes ago, The Railway Man said: They should be there to enforce the law, that includes everything from throwing missiles to public drunkeness to serious violence. The idea that the police don't arrest stupid moronic idiots for committing crimes in case they cause a mini riot is the attitude that the idiots have won over the law abiding. No wonder people fee free to behave in this way if they also know the police won't move in as they are scared of it escalating. Your being a bit unrealistic, they are there, primarily, to keep the peace best they can. They'd could of started WW3 the mood some of our fans were in on Sunday. If anything the Met are to cop (no pun intended) for it all for not having a stronger presence there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 18 minutes ago, Monsell1976 said: Spot on, it's ignoring the anti social behaviour, that can escalate into violence. All it takes is someone to react to the their behaviour, and violence can soon follow, both parties friends get involved, and we know how that ends. Appeasement has never worked, the history books show that, so the police and authorities should have the infrastructure, and resources in place to deal with all levels of violence and anti social behaviour at big events, and start to deal with the idiots amongst the fans that want to enjoy the experience. You say that, but there was no serious violence on Sunday, so clearly, that isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 8 hours ago, fleckneymike said: So there isn't a standing section then? This is all very confusing. 8 hours ago, Rob1742 said: Err, so there isn't an official standing area then?? If there is an official, unofficial standing area, how are those people buying tickets expected to know? 8 hours ago, FIF said: I have nothing against people standing up in a standing section. Sadly there isn't one so you need to be respectful to others in the area you are. Go to the back if you're going to stand up. Still that's not the horror here, it's the fould mouthed aggressive fans that are. As I've explained to skmanuk, you won't find the best outcome by insisting that you need to see standing formally recognised before you accept it. I knew people would stand at Wembley and I knew where they would stand because that's where people always stand at Wembley. The reason stadium's choose not to enforce the no-standing rule in certain areas (we might call them 'standing areas') is because they know it won't produce the best results. Of course it would be better if they stopped playing this silly game of pretending they're against standing, but until then everyone will be better off if they go along with it rather than try to fight it. I'm more than ready to work with you here and help sitters out by pointing out where the standing area will form, but you need to be willing to work with us and stop insisting that standing is not yet a legitimate way of watching the game. It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 I'm beginning to think inbreeding might be a more appropriate title for this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 1 minute ago, fleckneymike said: I'm beginning to think inbreeding might be a more appropriate title for this thread... I'm game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_LCFC Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 1 minute ago, Manwell Pablo said: Your being a bit unrealistic, they are there, primarily, to keep the peace best they can. They'd could of started WW3 the mood some of our fans were in on Sunday. If anything the Met are to cop (no pun intended) for it all for not having a stronger presence there. I saw a fair few police there to be fair, but BTP had a big presence near the stadium. It's not just the stadium though, you've got all the train stations and pubs away from the ground aswell on a match day. I bet it is a logistical nightmare with limited resources. 7 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said: The police, and just as importantly, the courts, just don't have the resources to deal with every daft bastard that steps out of line being arrested. Do we have any coppers on here? I was told by one ages ago that the paperwork for a single arrest took god knows how many hours on the part of the arresting officer, so there was always this dilemma about whether nicking someone was worth it as doing the admin would inevitably take them away from actual policing for a stupid length of time. I know some cops, although not in the met. They've told me a simple arrest even for a simple drunk and disorderly can take several hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 1 minute ago, Harry - LCFC said: As I've explained to skmanuk, you won't find the best outcome by saying that you need to see standing formally recognised before you accept it. I knew people would stand at Wembley and I knew where they would stand because that's where people always stand at Wembley. The reason stadium's choose not to enforce the no-standing rule in certain areas (we might call them 'standing areas') is because they know it won't produce the best results. Of course it would be better if they stopped playing this silly game of pretending they're against standing. But until then everyone will be better off of they go along with it rather than try to fight it. I'm more than ready to work with you here and help sitters out by pointing out where the standing area will form, but you need to be willing to work with us and stop insisting that standing is not yet a legitimate way of watching the game. It is. How very kind of you; shall we call it the "Shrodinger's seating area"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowlattsFox Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 I think people seen some footage from the Euros and thought it looked cool. 90% of the idiots aren'y really interested in actual fighting, they just want to do the gesturing and throwing shit. Unfortunately the Police were right to observe rather challenge, some of our fans are going to get a beating by european police. I hope people don't get caught up in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 1 minute ago, fleckneymike said: How very kind of you; shall we call it the "Shrodinger's seating area"? Thanks for the sarcasm. I'll do what I can for you next time we're at Wembley, Mike, but I won't give up my preference when I know I can do it without disrupting anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsell1976 Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 8 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said: You say that, but there was no serious violence on Sunday, so clearly, that isn't true. I beg to differ, no large scale violence, but there was lots of isolated incidents, some quite nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 1 minute ago, Monsell1976 said: I beg to differ, no large scale violence, but there was lots of isolated incidents, some quite nasty. Agreed, but no one was seriously hurt, and a few isolated incidents are most definitely better than a proper dust up, do you risk large scale violence involving 100's possibly 1000's violence just to bang a teenager up for 24 hours. The obvious answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 On 07/08/2016 at 21:59, daddylonglegs said: There was a moron shouting at people in 109 for not singing enough and sitting down. Was saying those sat down weren't real Leicester fans. People are just idiots. These are the stupid brain dead "drongos" that every club has. They bare just so pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 7 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said: Agreed, but no one was seriously hurt, and a few isolated incidents are most definitely better than a proper dust up, do you risk large scale violence involving 100's possibly 1000's violence just to bang a teenager up for 24 hours. The obvious answer is no. Some of the noses I saw get splattered looked like they would have bloody hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsell1976 Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 5 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said: Agreed, but no one was seriously hurt, and a few isolated incidents are most definitely better than a proper dust up, do you risk large scale violence involving 100's possibly 1000's violence just to bang a teenager up for 24 hours. The obvious answer is no. Worked enough of violent incidents to know you deal with the minor incidents, and control the mouth pieces, to prevent escalation of the incidents. Every major disturbance has a trigger, and sometimes it's the smallest of things. Dont believe the majority should have to put up with the poor behaviour, and intimidating behaviour, and it should be dealt with. I agree, police shouldn't be stuck for hours over low level behaviour, and the system doesnt help. That said, if warnings are given, and ignored, or missiles are thrown, and no injuries occurred, on the spot fines should be issued, or exclusion orders issued, powers the police currently have but don't appear to use. There are ways to pull them into line, without locking them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleronnie Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 I have to laugh when I hear people talk about being soft on crime etc...You're much more likely to be arrested thesedays for relatively minor incidents at sporting events then ever before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 9 August 2016 Share Posted 9 August 2016 8 minutes ago, Babylon said: Some of the noses I saw get splattered looked like they would have bloody hurt I am guessing the police did not see this though right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.