Infighting

[Sol thewall Bamba]

36 minutes ago, skmanuk said:

What some of you lot don't seem to realise is the really serious issue is one of respect, courtesy and behaving like a civilised person.

Say like, insulting people indiscriminately on an internet forum because they don't agree with you? 

[Bilo]

3 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I've been to Peterborough before. Twice, actually. And when I think back, it reminds me of a football ground for midgets. I'll never forget the narrow ramps leading up to the stands, the tiny toilets, the VIP area. Granted, things have apparently changed a little with the introduction of the revamped away area in the North section.

 

Well, they were never made for Premier League football in the first place. Stuck somewhere in the 60ies or 70ies still.

Peterborough's toilet facilities were delightful. Half of us just gave up and went for a slash up the back wall owing to the tiny size of the toilets.

 

Never forget Swindon's pitiful toilets either. Ahhh, heady days.

[Harry - LCFC]

56 minutes ago, skmanuk said:

It's not my "preference", it's the law of the land, the conditions of entry into Wembley and every other premier league ground in the land. Your practice disrupts others and leaves many with no possibility of watching the game(older people, shorter people, kids).

Wanting to sit in no way stops you watching the game, I repeat you are clearly selfish and thoughtless. If and when safe standing arrives, then fine, until then SIT.

Its been said a million times in this debate but once again, it is NOT illegal to stand at a football match. Additionally, my preference only disrupts others if people don't know where the standing section is. If everyone is aware then no-one will be disrupted. Thus the best approach is to make the standing section more clearly defined, not less.

 

I'll address your solution now. Insisting that everyone sits down is a poor idea for two reasons:

1. It's unfair - denying people their preference when you don't have to would make a significant minority less satisfied for no good reason.

2. It wouldn't work - it doesn't matter how much you throw the rulebook at them, people will keep finding somewhere to stand because they enjoy it and they know it can be done without inconveniencing others. Ordering them to sit won't change their behaviour. Thus it's better to work with them rather than ineffectively work against them.

[GaelicFox]

14 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I've been to Peterborough before. Twice, actually. And when I think back, it reminds me of a football ground for midgets. I'll never forget the narrow ramps leading up to the stands, the tiny toilets, the VIP area. Granted, things have apparently changed a little with the introduction of the revamped away area in the Eastern section.

 

Well, they were never made for Premier League football in the first place. Stuck somewhere in the 60ies or 70ies still.

That sort of sums up the city 

 

mind you Clarke's is a lovely place for lunch or dinner ! 

[fleckneymike]

40 minutes ago, Harry - LCFC said:

Its been said a million times in this debate but once again, it is NOT illegal to stand at a football match. Additionally, my preference only disrupts others if people don't know where the standing section is. If everyone is aware then no-one will be disrupted. Thus the best approach is to make the standing section more clearly defined, not less.

 

I'll address your solution now. Insisting that everyone sits down is a poor idea for two reasons:

1. It's unfair - denying people their preference when you don't have to would make a significant minority less satisfied for no good reason.

2. It wouldn't work - it doesn't matter how much you throw the rulebook at them, people will keep finding somewhere to stand because they enjoy it and they know it can be done without inconveniencing others. Ordering them to sit won't change their behaviour. Thus it's better to work with them rather than ineffectively work against them.

Err?

 

Where, pray tell, is the standing section?

[Harry - LCFC]

3 minutes ago, fleckneymike said:

Err?

 

Where, pray tell, is the standing section?

The area directly behind the goal in the lower tier. Look at the crowd at any Wembley final and you can see where people stand and where they sit down, it's the same for all of them.

 

I imagine you're referring to the lack of official recognition in this regard. In that sense there isn't one, but since so many want to stand we have to make do with an unofficial one.

[Dan LCFC]

Never seen such aggressive response towards some fairly common sense solutions. Had a great laugh at the way one poster earlier on went on some huge rant about someone else is "everything he hates in society", alluding to them being arrogant even though they're doing the exact same, arguably worse but at the other end of the spectrum.

 

This thread makes for very grim reading. Plenty of idiots about with zero common sense. The rules do state that you are to sit (I think) but those rules are quite clearly massively flawed when there is a widespread desire from people to stand up at the football. Only this country could continue to turn a blind eye to a common sense solution like safe standing.

 

Our end was a shambles yesterday. Pub was excellent and the walk to the ground was too. In the stands though it was pitifully bad but I'd be lying if I said I was one bit surprised. We seldom turned in a quality away end last year and we had probably the most exciting year of any English club of my lifetime. Bad times in that area.

[Bilo]

All this 'law of the land' makes my teeth itch.

 

Yes, all stadia must be all seater in the Premier League. All twenty, and 22 in the Championship as well as Wembley, are all seater. However, to claim that that therefore means that every fan must be seated is to completely divorce yourself from reality.

 

Like it or not, there are tens of thousands of fans in the Premier League who opt to stand in seated areas every single week. They do so because they feel more comfortable standing or wish to generate more atmosphere by standing and singing rather than sitting. It is entirely possible for standers and sitters to co-exist in any given situation, provided common sense is applied. I wouldn't expect to be able to stand and sing in the middle of the West Stand, so would therefore avoid that area. By the same token, I can't imagine anyone who wanted to sit down quietly having a particularly enjoyable experience in L1 or bang in the middle of UFS.

 

Of course there are seats in all of those areas, but good luck getting hundreds of people to sit down because you don't want to look at the backs of their heads. The de facto therefore outweighs the de jure. In other words, reality > the idea. Anybody with a slither of knowledge should really know where the unofficial, but undeniably existent, standing sections are at home and away. If you're at the front, you're unlikely to be able to stand. If you're at the back, sitting is going to be difficult. Hell, you can even state a preference when buying tickets for away games on that basis. So it was for Wembley. Pretty much every club who've visited Wembley have followed the same pattern - the seats directly behind the goal is where the noise, atmosphere and singing are largely generated - ergo, unofficial standing section. UFS made it very clear that they would be in Block 111 via social media. Therefore, if you wanted to sit quietly and watch the game in peace, perhaps Block 111 wouldn't have been for you. If that was so detrimental to your enjoyment of the game, you could have asked the TO and they'd have informed you of it - as I understand that UFS would have informed them that that section was there they intended to gather. Again, common sense and a smattering of foresight was all that was needed.

 

Let's be clear. Nobody is entitled to stand at football matches. By the same token though, nobody is legally entitled to sit either. They're legally entitled to a seat, but the ability to use it largely depends upon how stringently the ground regulations are enforced within your section of the ground. The club or stadium owner is legally obliged only to provide you with a seat, which Wembley and every PL ground does. Actually getting to sit or stand depends largely on your choice of seat. Ask the TO if you're that bothered and you will receive. It ain't ideal, but it's good as it's going to get until Safe Standing finally makes its way south of the border.

[The whole world smiles]

6 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Never seen such aggressive response towards some fairly common sense solutions. Had a great laugh at the way one poster earlier on went on some huge rant about someone else is "everything he hates in society", alluding to them being arrogant even though they're doing the exact same, arguably worse but at the other end of the spectrum.

 

This thread makes for very grim reading. Plenty of idiots about with zero common sense. The rules do state that you are to sit (I think) but those rules are quite clearly massively flawed when there is a widespread desire from people to stand up at the football. Only this country could continue to turn a blind eye to a common sense solution like safe standing.

 

Our end was a shambles yesterday. Pub was excellent and the walk to the ground was too. In the stands though it was pitifully bad but I'd be lying if I said I was one bit surprised. We seldom turned in a quality away end last year and we had probably the most exciting year of any English club of my lifetime. Bad times in that area.

I thought are away support was good last year but then again I only went to a few Palace was one of the best atmospheres I've ever experienced, Watford was good, Newcastle good, Stoke and Southampton both alright Liverpool was a bit disappointing though.

[Dan LCFC]

28 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

I thought are away support was good last year but then again I only went to a few Palace was one of the best atmospheres I've ever experienced, Watford was good, Newcastle good, Stoke and Southampton both alright Liverpool was a bit disappointing though.

I think you got quite lucky there. Best ones I was at last year were West Ham, Watford, Norwich & Palace. Was a big fan of the way we ended up staying behind for a good half hour after away games towards the end of the season mind you, that I can't knock in the slightest.

 

Just generally thought for how good a side we were, and how miraculous our season was, the support was often not up to scratch.

[Monsell1976]

18 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

I thought are away support was good last year but then again I only went to a few Palace was one of the best atmospheres I've ever experienced, Watford was good, Newcastle good, Stoke and Southampton both alright Liverpool was a bit disappointing though.

Think atmosphere wise Wembley is awful, England games included.

Not been to the new Wembley before Sunday, and I did comment what a soulless ground it's become, 3 tiers kills it, with the corporate splitting the 3, where we where couldn't hear any part of the ground really, just the section we were in.

Not to say it wasn't a bad effort from us, other factors came into that, like a lot of day trippers, and the usual away support dispersed.

Thats not me saying they are not welcome, just a fact, but come hull, there should be a good away end.

[irishfoxkev]

Back home watching recording of the game....crap Utd just scored for 2-1....as I said earlier didn't have any issues in the ground in block 514...the 2 most serious we saw were outside after match ...the most depressing thing was seeing the number of guys  who  looked like they wanted to join in the brief scrap at the Torch even though it had nothing to do with them..Drink fuelled herd mentality is a dangerous animal... Overall  had a great weekend in London but thought atmosphere  was poor at the match...Nothing like the play off /League Cup finals of few years ago but any noise there was came from us.. Only heard one Utd chant all game.....Speaking of the past anyone else remember the infighting back in the late 60's early 70's when gangs from various parts of the city and county ie  HInckley mob,  Bosworth , Narborough  etc used  to fight each other for the right to take centre ground in the Kop. 

[Manwell Pablo]

8 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Never seen such aggressive response towards some fairly common sense solutions. Had a great laugh at the way one poster earlier on went on some huge rant about someone else is "everything he hates in society", alluding to them being arrogant even though they're doing the exact same, arguably worse but at the other end of the spectrum.

 

This thread makes for very grim reading. Plenty of idiots about with zero common sense. The rules do state that you are to sit (I think) but those rules are quite clearly massively flawed when there is a widespread desire from people to stand up at the football. Only this country could continue to turn a blind eye to a common sense solution like safe standing.

 

Our end was a shambles yesterday. Pub was excellent and the walk to the ground was too. In the stands though it was pitifully bad but I'd be lying if I said I was one bit surprised. We seldom turned in a quality away end last year and we had probably the most exciting year of any English club of my lifetime. Bad times in that area.

I think a few people get over defensive about it Dan. I think when the argument gets to the stage where a few posters, for example kitch although anyone with half a brain knows to ignore him, father ted being another one, starts to have a crack at anyone and anybody who sat down as not worthy of being there you will get a back lash. They wind people up.

 

i was ejected for standing, I say standing, leaning on the back off the stadium on literally the back row of the kop, at half time during our 4-1 win against Watford about 8 years ago. I darent stand unless I'm surrounded by an overwhelming majority now. It wasn't the ejection that hurt as much as the games banned that followed. So I keep my nose clean to avoid it happening again as the club have my name. When I see posts like that it grates me.

 

We we can't all be mental fanatics, some of us have kids and those kids will be the next generation of home grown support, some are old and part of the foundations that made the club what it is today but aren't quite up to standing singing and waving a flag about for 90 minutes. I've just deleted two paragraphs as this is going to turn a rant but the point is a lot of people with issues are taking issue with provocative posts and are complaining about people standing in inappropriate areas.

 

safe standing is obviously the solution. Till then I'm sorry but if your in a "singing section" don't expect the cushty 2010's padded seat and prawn sandwich, if your not sit the Fck down. 

 

im sure the lads that I know in Union FS would echo the sentiment, I like the odd blue specs post but I think he has dug himself into a bit of a corner and should probably just apologise to UFS if he hasn't already. It's was started by lads that were probably were a twinkle in their dads eye when some of you were sat in the Kop in the 70s. I'd wager most of you were not there on a Friday night in Colchester when we got relegated to league one like I know a lot of them were. They've spent years years getting to where they are now and don't deserve every teenage muppet with a smoke bomb being traced back to them.

 

 

[ozleicester]

8 hours ago, MrSpaM said:

I've never understood this. I went to the Elton John gig in Leicester a couple of months ago and the people on the end of my row started telling me they wernt going to let me out again because I'd already been to the toilet twice in two hours and obstructing their view for 2 seconds had practically ruined their night.

You know the answer....Shouldve just shat on the floor 

[skmanuk]

12 hours ago, Harry - LCFC said:

It's quite clear there are a lot of people who wish to stand at football matches. This being the case I think it's unpractical and unfair to expect everyone inside the stadium to sit down.

 

I'll repeat my solution: Knowledge about where the standing area tends to form at Wembley would've allowed people to choose their seats so that they could get their preference (on our next appearance at Wembley I will make a thread explaining this to make this easier for everyone). Ultimately safe standing areas are what we need but in the meantime I think it's silly to suggest that expecting everyone to sit would be the best outcome. That just won't work.

 

Also, I'm interested that you accuse me of being 'selfish' and 'not caring about anyone else' for trying to find a 

Unfair to expect everyone to sit down?? 

[skmanuk]

2 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Never seen such aggressive response towards some fairly common sense solutions. Had a great laugh at the way one poster earlier on went on some huge rant about someone else is "everything he hates in society", alluding to them being arrogant even though they're doing the exact same, arguably worse but at the other end of the spectrum.

 

This thread makes for very grim reading. Plenty of idiots about with zero common sense. The rules do state that you are to sit (I think) but those rules are quite clearly massively flawed when there is a widespread desire from people to stand up at the football. Only this country could continue to turn a blind eye to a common sense solution like safe standing.

 

Our end was a shambles yesterday. Pub was excellent and the walk to the ground was too. In the stands though it was pitifully bad but I'd be lying if I said I was one bit surprised. We seldom turned in a quality away end last year and we had probably the most exciting year of any English club of my lifetime. Bad times in that area.

Like I said, if standing areas are created then fine, but until then stop being such a bunch of self entitled selfish prats and ruining it for other people just because you can (ie, there's too many of us for them to stop us, bit like bullying to me).

[skmanuk]

5 hours ago, Harry - LCFC said:

In future I will make a thread pointing out where the standing section in Wembley will be. I'm still of the opinion that it's easy enough to work out for yourself (just look at the crowd at any Wembley final) but clearly many people weren't aware.

So you've decided there will be a standing section and where it will be, how about if we decide the whole stadium us a no drunk foul mouthed moron zone, where are you going to go then?

[skmanuk]

4 hours ago, LCFC FOX said:

I was stood five rows from the front and had no problems.

 

Apart from some older guy who was with his boy who I say was about eight. He asked me if I minded sitting down as his lad couldn't see only for the lad to say "shut up dad you boring fart it's all part of the fun" the lad then stood on his chair and started jumping up and down. 

 

The man was pretty shocked at first but never asked again after that

Jackanory I think, an 8 year old saying that to his dad, try something a little more plausible next time.

[skmanuk]

3 hours ago, Harry - LCFC said:

Its been said a million times in this debate but once again, it is NOT illegal to stand at a football match. Additionally, my preference only disrupts others if people don't know where the standing section is. If everyone is aware then no-one will be disrupted. Thus the best approach is to make the standing section more clearly defined, not less.

 

I'll address your solution now. Insisting that everyone sits down is a poor idea for two reasons:

1. It's unfair - denying people their preference when you don't have to would make a significant minority less satisfied for no good reason.

2. It wouldn't work - it doesn't matter how much you throw the rulebook at them, people will keep finding somewhere to stand because they enjoy it and they know it can be done without inconveniencing others. Ordering them to sit won't change their behaviour. Thus it's better to work with them rather than ineffectively work against them.

There is no such thing as a standing section!

[GaelicFox]

5 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

I thought are away support was good last year but then again I only went to a few Palace was one of the best atmospheres I've ever experienced, Watford was good, Newcastle good, Stoke and Southampton both alright Liverpool was a bit disappointing though.

I went to 15 away games , fantastic stuff , some better than others but I really enjoyed every away day ! Wish I could have done them all 

 

I really wonder what people are referencing ! 

 

The the tension as the year went on was massive , so you cannot really reference or compare last year to anything else that had gone before in last 10 years 

 

seems to be cool thing to believe the away support was poor last year , well it wasn't that's pure bullshite ! 

 

but then again I love to watch football I'm not always happy being in a dire choir  

 

 

[Livid]

We have a different make up to our support than a lot of the big clubs.

 

When they focus the camera on our away support and you see families, pensioners the lot. When some of the bigger clubs come to the KP you see primarily guys from their teens up to their 50's. I get a feeling some on here would like our away support to have a 'Lads on Tour' feel and that would be terrible IMO. I don't care if we don't all stand, I don't care if XYZ club are louder, I don't care if we look tinpot. There are people who have given decades of support to this club they have as much right to go to an away game as anyone.

 

Football is affordable at Leicester, look around at some of the big clubs and see how many families you see in the stands. I don't want that to change.

[C-man]

8 hours ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

FFS can you people not read? I asked a question and making the link is what you're doing not me!

The initial post I replied too stated that there were some right nob heads attaching themselves to your gang, is that a false statement?

In a pre Wembley statement I thought I read something about you guys meeting in the Torch and marching on Wembley, true or not?

I read that the poor young girl was hit by a smoke bomb thrown at the Torch pub, true or not? 

Where in my post did I once say that it WAS Union FS members that threw the smoke bomb? 

And like it or not if certain factions, nob heads are attaching themselves to your gang and publicised marches/ events and you can't control them, then yes any good work you do will rightly be tarnished.

Stop being so precious and sensitive it's actually making you look culpable. 

I only asked if what he was saying was right and if there was some truth and suggested self policing etc etc etc.

I really try hard to show self-restraint when I read comments about Union FS on here because I'm obviously biased and I don't feel as though any of UFS' membership should speak on behalf of or have to defend the group against (generally) baseless accusations but I'm growing pretty weary of this. 

 

We've always taken the approach that staying silent is better than getting into a heated debate (that is why the 'official' Union FS account rarely posts), but it appears that people are now starting to take the suspicions of individuals on here (and on Twitter) as fact which obviously doesn't help us. 

 

From the day the group formed, UFS has always opened its doors to anyone who wants to join and contribute - be it financially in terms of donations (no matter how large or small), hours on non-matchdays for tifo preparation, working with the FSF on various campaigns or negotiating with the Club on fan related matters including safe standing. It has worked hard on trying not to be 'elitist' - if you read any of UFS' communications you will hopefully see it is addressed to all and usually acknowledges that people will want to support the team in their own way.

 

The great thing about being open to all is that it ends up being a cross-section of our support, which is a further cross-section of society. That means we have a group made up of teachers, accountants, students, charity workers, supermarket workers, between jobbers, shift workers, Tories, Ukippers, Corbynites, Brits, Americans, 'nob heads', 'twats' or 'morons' as people outside are so often quick to judge. Most of the group have a different outlook on football but the two things that bind them is a love for Leicester City and an absolute desire to better atmosphere at games. Often that comes across as obvious on here, and in the stadium where we do try to encourage others to take an active part in vocally supporting the team. I don't think the group should make any apologies for that, provided it is done with a degree of respect. 

 

The group will always maintain everyone has a right to support the team in their own way, no more so than its own members. At the end of the day, we are all Leicester and want the best for Ranieri's boys. Respect on all sides wouldn't go amiss, but seeing as you've showed none, to answer your questions directly:

 

1) Yes I can read and I'll interpret your original post the way others have too. It was leading and unnecessary.

 

2) See above. We're open to all - if you think they're 'nob heads', that's your opinion but you don't know them.

 

3) Yes, we met at The Torch. Yes, we walked to Wembley as a group with hundreds of others. It was fvcking brilliant.

 

4) I have no idea if a young girl was hit by a pyrotechnic but if it did happen, once again, I'm sorry for her but it has nothing to do with us. UFS took zero pyro to London on Sunday.

 

5) I didn't say you said it was Union FS. I referenced the fact you jumped on AKCJ's post around us having 'utter twats attracted to the group', linked it with an incident you had heard about (not seen) involving a pyrotechnic based on your own pre-dispositions of the group and felt that you had to ask the question. 'I only asked if what he was saying was right' - where did AKCJ mention pyro in his post? 

 

The only way UFS could truly 'self-police' is to close our doors and vet every person who joins us, and spend the game telling anyone and everyone who comes over us during games to enjoy the atmosphere to do one. But that would be quite 'elitist' wouldn't it? 

[fleckneymike]

8 hours ago, Harry - LCFC said:

The area directly behind the goal in the lower tier. Look at the crowd at any Wembley final and you can see where people stand and where they sit down, it's the same for all of them.

 

I imagine you're referring to the lack of official recognition in this regard. In that sense there isn't one, but since so many want to stand we have to make do with an unofficial one.

So there isn't a standing section then? This is all very confusing. 

[Rob1742]

8 hours ago, Harry - LCFC said:

The area directly behind the goal in the lower tier. Look at the crowd at any Wembley final and you can see where people stand and where they sit down, it's the same for all of them.

 

I imagine you're referring to the lack of official recognition in this regard. In that sense there isn't one, but since so many want to stand we have to make do with an unofficial one.

Err, so there isn't an official standing area then??

 

If there is an official, unofficial standing area, how are those people buying tickets expected to know? 

[Voll Blau]

5 hours ago, skmanuk said:

So you've decided there will be a standing section and where it will be, how about if we decide the whole stadium us a no drunk foul mouthed moron zone, where are you going to go then?

I don't know but I'm pretty sure the Premier League trophy would've been presented to an empty ground if that was the case.