President Trump & the USA

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Behaviour like that has been rewarded a great many times in the past, by countries of all different ideologies.

And maybe that's why we still have backwards regimes building nuclear weapons. 

[Sharpe's Fox]

we must support our comrades in the People's Republic imo

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

And maybe that's why we still have backwards regimes building nuclear weapons. 

 

There still remains only one nation that has used nuclear weapons against another, a country lead by a mentally unstable man-child. 

 

Just an observation. 

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Really? I don't know why people get upset with Trump if they think NK's behaviour is acceptable.

I sincerely hope that no one sane thinks that the behaviour of the NK's is acceptable (Trump having the power to cause exponentially more damage than them with the resources at his disposal notwithstanding.)

 

I'm just trying to find a solution here that doesn't end up in mass carnage and the wrecking of a corner of the world I happen to like very much, just because some folks who won't be affected by it at all think it might end up that way down the road anyway.

 

 

16 minutes ago, MattP said:

And maybe that's why we still have backwards regimes building nuclear weapons. 

Probably. It's also how almost all of the great empires got built.

 

"Here's our big stick, now give us stuff."

Edited 29 August 2017 by leicsmac

[Guest MattP]

20 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

we must support our comrades in the People's Republic imo

Is it slightly worrying I'm not sure if this is serious?

 

17 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

There still remains only one nation that has used nuclear weapons against another, a country lead by a mentally unstable man-child. 

 

Just an observation. 

Yes, but that was over 70 years ago so its totally irrelevant.

 

It still amazes me how people can get so upset about Donald Trump but be so cool about Kim, Erdogan and Putin etc

 

We must resist one but shower an even crazier one with love.

 

Mad World. 

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

Is it slightly worrying I'm not sure if this is serious?

 

Yes, but that was over 70 years ago so its totally irrelevant.

 

It still amazes me how people can get so upset about Donald Trump but be so cool about Kim, Erdogan and Putin etc

 

We must resist one but shower an even crazier one with love.

 

Mad World. 

I'd put it another way and say it amazes me that in a world where everyone in the west is worried about Kim, Erdogan and Putin etc. somebody like Trump should somehow gain power and have some of the same people who worry about the first 3 treat the latter like some political saviour.

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I'd put it another way and say it amazes me that in a world where everyone in the west is worried about Kim, Erdogan and Putin etc. somebody like Trump should somehow gain power and have some of the same people who worry about the first 3 treat the latter like some political saviour.

Probably because Trump leads a democracy with checks and balances. 

 

He's been defeated by his own party and his own courts so far and couldn't be a dictator if he wanted to be.

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, MattP said:

Probably because Trump leads a democracy with checks and balances. 

 

He's been defeated by his own party and his own courts so far and couldn't be a dictator if he wanted to be.

That's the big issue, how on earth does a man like that end up at the head of a democracy.  I think the more right-leaning people who show no concern over Trump but pretend not to support him either are guilty of some serious hypocrisy, especially when they turn around and cry about the militant commie students who have the grand total of zero actionable power.  How about being equally appalled by things that are appalling for once?

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

That's the big issue, how on earth does a man like that end up at the head of a democracy.  I think the more right-leaning people who show no concern over Trump but pretend not to support him either are guilty of some serious hypocrisy, especially when they turn around and cry about the militant commie students who have the grand total of zero actionable power.  How about being equally appalled by things that are appalling for once?

In short, because the people who benefitted from globalisation, immigration, free trade etc then didn't really give a shit about those who didn't. 

 

But I think we've already gone through that.

 

I find people trying (and often succeeding) to shut down freedom of speech terrifying and make no apology for it. 

Edited 29 August 2017 by MattP

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, MattP said:

In short, because the people who benefitted from globalisation, immigration, free trade etc then didn't really give a shit about those who didn't. 

 

But I think we've already gone through that.

And yet you get upset at the likes of Toddybad when they demonstrate, in your estimation, die hard willingness to undermine his country as a fair cost of achieving his political ideals while standing there and supporting the outcomes of the Trump campaign which as far as I can see is the exact same thing on the other side of the political spectrum.

 

Do you honestly not see the hypocrisy there?

[ScouseFox]

cats are fu cking vermin tbf. 

[ScouseFox]

Just now, ScouseFox said:

cats are fu cking vermin tbf. 

this is not the right thread but the point still stands imho 

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

And yet you get upset at the likes of Toddybad when they demonstrate, in your estimation, die hard willingness to undermine his country as a fair cost of achieving his political ideals while standing there and supporting the outcomes of the Trump campaign which as far as I can see is the exact same thing on the other side of the political spectrum.

 

Do you honestly not see the hypocrisy there?

Well no because I've never supported the Trump campaign.

 

I said on here on election day I couldn't vote for him.

[Webbo]

20 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

That's the big issue, how on earth does a man like that end up at the head of a democracy.  I think the more right-leaning people who show no concern over Trump but pretend not to support him either are guilty of some serious hypocrisy, especially when they turn around and cry about the militant commie students who have the grand total of zero actionable power.  How about being equally appalled by things that are appalling for once?

Carl, I think it's fair to say I've never been afraid of taking an unpopular position on here. If I supported Trump I'd gladly tell everyone and fvck the lot of you. I don't condemn Trump because I'm not obsessed with him, I can't think of a time I ever condemned Obama either.

 

This chap's got it right.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/164492167706/the-magical-thinking-opposition

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, MattP said:

Well no because I've never supported the Trump campaign.

 

I said on here on election day I couldn't vote for him.

Yet you keep making excuses for it while zealously rallying against the opposite phenomena.  Why can't we all just accept that Trump, Putin, Kim, Erdogan, the so-called alt-right, antifa's 'at any cost' thugs etc. are all problems we should all solve rather than seeking to show fury against some while justifying the others and even seeking to benefit from them by blaming your political opponents for it?

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

Yet you keep making excuses for it while zealously rallying against the opposite phenomena.  Why can't we all just accept that Trump, Putin, Kim, Erdogan, the so-called alt-right, antifa's 'at any cost' thugs etc. are all problems we should all solve rather than seeking to show fury against some while justifying the others and even seeking to benefit from them by blaming your political opponents for it?

I don't disagree with any of that.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

And maybe that's why we still have backwards regimes building nuclear weapons. 

Trident replacement not ringing any bells?

[Guest MattP]

49 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Trident replacement not ringing any bells?

So now we are a backward nation? 

 

Do you want to insult your country anymore in one day?

[bovril]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

It still amazes me how people can get so upset about Donald Trump but be so cool about Kim, Erdogan and Putin etc

Are they? I've genuinely never met anybody who hates Trump but is cool about Erdogan, Putin etc. I don't think they exist. Maybe you just notice criticism of Trump more.

[Dr The Singh]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

So now we are a backward nation? 

 

Do you want to insult your country anymore in one day?

We need to focus on making photon torpedo's and photon beams.  For our ships, warp speed aircrafts. 

 

Nuclear is old tech

[Guest]

4 hours ago, MattP said:

So now we are a backward nation? 

 

Do you want to insult your country anymore in one day?

How exactly do you go about insulting a piece of land? That's close to one of the lamest arguments often used - particularly at the moment - in politics. Any suggestion that your country's decisions aren't perfect and you're labelled a sympathiser, a nation hater etc. It's the sort of vacuous argument used by brexiteers regularly to try to shut down legitimate debate and good old donald trump does something similar in the us. 

[Guest MattP]

10 hours ago, toddybad said:

How exactly do you go about insulting a piece of land? That's close to one of the lamest arguments often used - particularly at the moment - in politics. Any suggestion that your country's decisions aren't perfect and you're labelled a sympathiser, a nation hater etc. It's the sort of vacuous argument used by brexiteers regularly to try to shut down legitimate debate and good old donald trump does something similar in the us. 

Criticise the government of course, but it's so obvious what you are doing when you revel in EU leaks or criticise a countries defence policy.

 

We've almost reached peak insanity here, we've got some people demanding we dismantle our own nuclear weapons whilst then sending aid and money to countries who build nuclear weapons, crazy doesn't come close.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

Criticise the government of course, but it's so obvious what you are doing when you revel in EU leaks or criticise a countries defence policy.

 

We've almost reached peak insanity here, we've got some people demanding we dismantle our own nuclear weapons whilst then sending aid and money to countries who build nuclear weapons, crazy doesn't come close.

Would i not build the trident replacement? - correct. Too much money for a system we can't use. We can't even afford enough teachers or nurses under this government. 

 

Would i send nk aid money? No. 

 

I'd  have almost nothing to do with the situation but it is clear that at some point the us will have to talk directly to nk and the minimum coming out will be an end to wargaming on the nk border and a relaxation of sanctions in exchange for an end to further nuclear development/missile testing.

Edited 30 August 2017 by Guest

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Would i not build the trident replacement? - correct. Too much money for a system we can't use. We can't even afford enough teachers or nurses under this government. 

 

Would i send nk aid money? No. 

 

If hsve nothing to do with the situation but it is clear that at some point the us will have to talk directly to nk and the minimum coming out will be an end to wargaming on the nk border in exchange for an end to further nuclear development/missile testing.

Can't afford nurses and teachers? Have all the hospitals and schools shut down? Last I checked we were still spending a fortune on teachers and nurses.

 

If North Korea has nuclear weapons and we don't, how much notice do you think they would take of us.

 

There is not going to be an end to US/SK war gaming. South Korea doesn't have nuclear weapons and relies on the US - let's not forget only one side of Korea has invaded the other and it wasn't the South.

Edited 30 August 2017 by MattP

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

Can't afford nurses and teachers? Have all the hospitals and schools shut down? Last I checked we were still spending a fortune on teachers and nurses.

 

If North Korea has nuclear weapons and we don't, how much notice do you think they would take of us.

 

There is not going to be an end to US/SK war gaming. South Korea doesn't have nuclear weapons and relies on the US - let's not forget only one side of Korea has invaded the other and it wasn't the South.

How much notice do you think nk  would take of us anyway? They're surrounded by russia, china and (further away) the us. What power do you think we're going to be exuding amongst that little collective? 

 

They'll have to be an end to wargaming as that is one of nk's chief issues. How you expect a diplomatic solution without both sides ceding ground i have no idea.