North Korea

[breadandcheese]

The fear for me is proliferation, which North Korea have form on. He can't use his arsenal of nukes, but he can sell the technology to Iran and any other bidders, no matter how rogue. This could set off a domino effect of Saudi Arabia acquiring nuclear weapons should Iran build them.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8129670/North-Korea-runs-international-nuclear-smuggling-network.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/22/two-north-korean-shipments-to-syria-intercepted-in-six-months-un-told

 

 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Lionator said:

This conflict is only as scary as the media want it to be. It seems worse now as more attention is being paid to it and the media are throwing around claims of ww3 which only fuels anxiety. Obviously their government are abhorrent and part of the fear is because of the unknowns however you have to remember that the US and South Korea (understandably in their case) are constantly poking them with a stick with military drills on their doorstep, could you imagine another world power conducting military exercises in central america on the US doorstep. We've been in more perilous situations such as in 2010 and it soon calmed down. As Putin said, diplomacy is pretty much the only way that this is going to be resolved and Xi knows that and even Trump, or at least Mattis, knows that I believe. If North Korea do anything stupid then they have no leg to stand on and action would have to be taken but it's all games and brinksmanship for now. It's really not worth worrying about.

There is more attention being paid to this because it's what people are clicking to read. the more you click the more stories you'll get. 

[Lionator]

44 minutes ago, Soundman said:

There is more attention being paid to this because it's what people are clicking to read. the more you click the more stories you'll get. 

And the more money the media make! It all makes sense!

[m4DD0gg]

2 hours ago, breadandcheese said:

The fear for me is proliferation, which North Korea have form on. He can't use his arsenal of nukes, but he can sell the technology to Iran and any other bidders, no matter how rogue. This could set off a domino effect of Saudi Arabia acquiring nuclear weapons should Iran build them.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8129670/North-Korea-runs-international-nuclear-smuggling-network.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/22/two-north-korean-shipments-to-syria-intercepted-in-six-months-un-told

 

 

Exactly this.

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, breadandcheese said:

The fear for me is proliferation, which North Korea have form on. He can't use his arsenal of nukes, but he can sell the technology to Iran and any other bidders, no matter how rogue. This could set off a domino effect of Saudi Arabia acquiring nuclear weapons should Iran build them.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8129670/North-Korea-runs-international-nuclear-smuggling-network.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/22/two-north-korean-shipments-to-syria-intercepted-in-six-months-un-told

 

 

Proliferation would be more of a hassle if it was very difficult to ascertain exactly where fissile material originated. In truth, it's not all that tricky.

 

The signature of uranium or particularly plutonium used in bombs is unique due to the various composition of the other elements within it created when it was made, often down to the reactor in which it was formed. And the moment the signature on an exploded bomb says Yongbyon - regardless of whether the NK's set it off themselves or merely sold it - then people, I guess, would start asking questions. They'd be as culpable as if they'd detonated it themselves.

[breadandcheese]

3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Proliferation would be more of a hassle if it was very difficult to ascertain exactly where fissile material originated. In truth, it's not all that tricky.

 

The signature of uranium or particularly plutonium used in bombs is unique due to the various composition of the other elements within it created when it was made, often down to the reactor in which it was formed. And the moment the signature on an exploded bomb says Yongbyon - regardless of whether the NK's set it off themselves or merely sold it - then people, I guess, would start asking questions. They'd be as culpable as if they'd detonated it themselves.

I'm not so sure.

 

We know that NK has provided assistance to Syria's nuclear programme, albeit they were bombed by Israel to stop it getting any further.  We know that NK has provided assistance for chemical weapons to Syria, which may have been used against his own people.  I suspect the world would mutter some words and that would be it.  

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, breadandcheese said:

I'm not so sure.

 

We know that NK has provided assistance to Syria's nuclear programme, albeit they were bombed by Israel to stop it getting any further.  We know that NK has provided assistance for chemical weapons to Syria, which may have been used against his own people.  I suspect the world would mutter some words and that would be it.  

If a bomb goes off with NK-made plutonium (no matter who pulled the trigger), I highly suspect the world won't just mutter words.

[breadandcheese]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

If a bomb goes off with NK-made plutonium (no matter who pulled the trigger), I highly suspect the world won't just mutter words.

I'm talking about the proliferation rather than the use of. If NK supply uranium to Iran, for instance, would the world do anything other than mutter words. 

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, breadandcheese said:

I'm talking about the proliferation rather than the use of. If NK supply uranium to Iran, for instance, would the world do anything other than mutter words. 

Ah, well in that case that would depend very much on the degree of enrichment the material had received, and what it was subsequently used for, I would think.

[Guest]

At last somebody sensible has something to say

 

Merkel backs Iran-style diplomatic solution for North Korea

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/10/merkel-backs-iran-style-diplomatic-solution-for-north-korea?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

[Countryfox]

 

Oh dear oh dear ...   when the fat headed hobgoblin sees this the chap (sitting behind and to the right) is going to get his balls ripped off then tied to a howitzer and have a very large hole blown through him ...    poor sod forgot to smile or be in floods of tears when looking at the beloved leader.    

 

 

[Wymsey]

Yet more "threats" from Kim Jong Un, if US etc sanctions on then affect the country greatly..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41242992

 

A short quote springs to mind over these squabbles between the pair..:

[Kopfkino]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41275614

[Stadt]

@leicsmac Why are NK targeting (or posturing anyway) mostly towards Japan? Is it simply that they're probably the softest target?

[Webbo]

16 minutes ago, Wookie said:

@leicsmac Why are NK targeting (or posturing anyway) mostly towards Japan? Is it simply that they're probably the softest target?

Japan occupied Korea for a long time and were particularly cruel.

[IOWFOX]

9 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Japan occupied Korea for a long time and were particularly cruel.

That's doing Japan a massive favour. Japan's 'experiments' on the koreans have got to be very near the top of the list of truely horrific things man has done to one another!

 

Not saying that this aggression is right by any means. Just best that we never forget these things as much as we would like too. It's also something that a fair number of people probably don't even knoe about.

Edited 14 September 2017 by IOWFOX

[Stadt]

10 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Japan occupied Korea for a long time and were particularly cruel.

I was half aware of that but didn't know if there was a more geopolitical reason, thanks 

[Collymore]

So they've fired another missile towards Japan. 

[Kopfkino]

6 minutes ago, Wookie said:

I was half aware of that but didn't know if there was a more geopolitical reason, thanks 

Of course Japan being an ally of US and in NK is viewed as the same corrupt, imperialist society.

 

Also where else do they fire their missiles? They're not gonna go anywhere near China or Russia with them and technically they're still at war with South so anything would be seen as provocation. It's convenient to fire a missile into the Pacific and flying it over Japan makes people take extra notice. 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Wookie said:

@leicsmac Why are NK targeting (or posturing anyway) mostly towards Japan? Is it simply that they're probably the softest target?

Well...

 

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

Japan occupied Korea for a long time and were particularly cruel.

 

1 hour ago, KingGTF said:

Of course Japan being an ally of US and in NK is viewed as the same corrupt, imperialist society.

 

Also where else do they fire their missiles? They're not gonna go anywhere near China or Russia with them and technically they're still at war with South so anything would be seen as provocation. It's convenient to fire a missile into the Pacific and flying it over Japan makes people take extra notice. 

 

A little bit of both of these - Japan is a not US/China/Russia target that they can go for without raising too much ire, and they can quote what the Japanese did to their ancestors during WW2 as a reason.

 

It's all still posturing though.

[Carl the Llama]

What did the Japanese do to the Koreans during the war?  I did a quick bit of googling and discovered they undertook various insanely inhumane experiments during WWII, like real mad scientist shit, but the articles I've found all indicate that the vast majority of their test subjects/victims were Chinese citizens and criminals while the remainder were mostly Soviet POWs.

[Jattdogg]

13 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

What did the Japanese do to the Koreans during the war?  I did a quick bit of googling and discovered they undertook various insanely inhumane experiments during WWII, like real mad scientist shit, but the articles I've found all indicate that the vast majority of their test subjects/victims were Chinese citizens and criminals while the remainder were mostly Soviet POWs.

Mad scientist shit on 1 Korean  citizen during war is something youd never forget/forgive.  I wouldn't especially if that were my family member. 

 

Having said that got to move on i suppose. Keep this up and the US will act.

[leicsmac]

54 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

What did the Japanese do to the Koreans during the war?  I did a quick bit of googling and discovered they undertook various insanely inhumane experiments during WWII, like real mad scientist shit, but the articles I've found all indicate that the vast majority of their test subjects/victims were Chinese citizens and criminals while the remainder were mostly Soviet POWs.

"Comfort women".

 

That's the main thing.

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, Jattdogg said:

Mad scientist shit on 1 Korean  citizen during war is something youd never forget/forgive.  I wouldn't especially if that were my family member. 

 

Having said that got to move on i suppose. Keep this up and the US will act.

I guess the point is that if anybody has reason to bear a grudge for that particular piece of history it's not the NK lot.

 

That said in searching for Japanese atrocities against the Korean people a rather important point I completely glossed over was the colonisation of the Korean peninsular by Japan from 1910 until Japan's defeat by the allies in 1945 at which point Korea was divided up between the US (South) and USSR (North), both halves receiving full autonomy at the end of the war or soon after.  During occupation the Japanese exploited Korean ressources, potentially forced Korean citizens into armed service (unconfirmed) and as Mac says had comfort women sent to the fronts, so that's where most of the bad blood seems to come from.  Japanese occupation did boost Korea's industrialisation process (even if Japan enjoyed most of the benefits of it) and South Korea and Japan get on pretty well these days as I understand it with media culture from each nation being popular in the other (though I'm sure Mac knows a lot more about that).

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

"Comfort women".

 

That's the main thing.

Yep cheers, been doing a bit more reading into it.  The things you learn when you can't sleep and you have nothing better to do