Incident at London Bridge

[SheppyFox]

23 minutes ago, stix said:

 

Tell me what your suggestion is please. 

Anti Terrorism isn't about left or right wing, we can't pretend our political system can come up with a solution either, it clearly can't.

 

Extremists are obviously a minority, multiculturalism must always be promoted, but so must common sense. The Manchester attacker had visited Libya, he was allowed to return, no doubt in the coming hours these three will be identified and established as being known by the authorities too.

 

This is where the sticky part comes, you cannot get around this issue without stepping on some toes, people that are known sympathisers, hate preachers etc are on a list for a reason, they shouldn't be here. We need a common sense politics that combines both left and right wing approaches, whenever and wherever possible.

[Charl91]

Just now, Russell sprout said:

Hold on,so your suggesting that I shouldn't look at innocent Muslims in the same way I do terrorists,firstly I don't think any of us could split the difference between a good and bad Muslim,Seing as it's only when they've blew themselves up they become bad,up till then there good innocent Muslims in your eyes,secondly why don't you try and educate Muslims on not to kill innocent people,

i do agree it'll never stop,but why should we simply accept this is the way it it,I would rather fight back,skin them alive and throw them in a bath tub of vinegar,and tell them that paradise

 

 

That's great logic. Lets see where it leads. Most violent crime in the UK commited by white people. I guess by your logic, we should look at "innocent" white people in the same way, because you don't know if they're a "good and bad" white person, until they commit a murder.

 

I'm much more likely to get murdered by a white person than blown up/killed by a muslim. But don't let reason and facts get in the way of your racism. Why not just educate those white people instead?

[yorkie1999]

8 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

See, now this is racism. Of course they care. 

 

The vast majority of Muslims in this country absolutely condone this shite. Think about possibly getting to know some, and ask them yourself. Also, the terrorists mostly attack indiscriminately. Do you think the manchester bomber decided to have a look round to see if there were any Muslims were there before blowing himself up? What about the London bombers? What about the bombings around the world, the majority of the victims for which are Muslims?

 

We all hate terrorism, but you're being irrational, and quite frankly talking bollocks. 

Muslim isn't a race. But it can be banned in this country

[The Floyd]

23 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

 

We're*

 

We're not a Christian country. There are more atheists than Christians. And what are you suggesting, deporting all muslims? Nice to see the far right out in force though. Yeah, none of us like terrorist attacks. But for all your bleating about "something must be done", I don't see any sensible or rational suggestions.

 

Because the reality is, it's nigh impossible to stop things like this happening. If one person decides to go on a killing spree, no amount of safeguards can stop it, they can only lessen the impact. And no amount of "lock them all up and execute them all" is going to solve that. It'll only make it worse.

 

If there was something sensible which could be done, then I'm sure we'd all be for it.

I'm not sure that's true. The 2011 census found that 59.5% of the population were Christian, whilst 25.7% declared themselves as having no religion. I'd be very surprised to see that much of a shift in 6 years. 

[rgc1967]

10 hours ago, Strokes said:

Hopefully the victims of this all survive, and so does the perpetrator, so justice can be served.

Im supposed to be going London for a gig at Wembley soon, I might give it a miss now tbh. I'm not sure I will enjoy it with this on the back of my mind.

Cannot give in to these cxxts . But totally get what your saying my lad lives and works in London and every time something happens I worry . 

[hejammy]

5 minutes ago, Russell sprout said:

Hold on,so your suggesting that I shouldn't look at innocent Muslims in the same way I do terrorists,firstly I don't think any of us could split the difference between a good and bad Muslim,Seing as it's only when they've blew themselves up they become bad,up till then there good innocent Muslims in your eyes,secondly why don't you try and educate Muslims on not to kill innocent people,

i do agree it'll never stop,but why should we simply accept this is the way it it,I would rather fight back,skin them alive and throw them in a bath tub of vinegar,and tell them that paradise

 

Check out the history of these "bad Muslims" your line of you don't know if they are good or bad before they blow themselves up is ridiculous. They all have history of crime, drugs and general hate. 

[Charl91]

4 minutes ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

 

I think you meant 'condemn'. Freudian slip?

 

Ooops, good spot! Awkward.

[foxfanazer]

As for the 'get better intel' arguement, how has that served us recently. The perpetrators have been 'known' to us and yet we haven't stopped them. Also how much intel can you get on someone picking up a knife and attacking innocent people on the streets? 

[Guest Dirkster the Fox]

One option "amongst several" is to put into action this:

 

A) Phase one, temporary closure of any mosque/single faith school proven to either harbour or in any way be found promoting any form of radical hatred. A strong warning their communal environment needs to root out any radical views.

B) Phase two, indefinite closure if the same group of leaders, attendees continue to flounder the above first phase. 

 

If the Muslim community are really serious about what is going on, it will push the problem out of the mosques/schools and remove two forums for such views. The internet is clearly a huge area as well, but if every local mosque/faith schools rid itself of any potential radicalised views the chances of acceptance will reduce and not be able to manifest itself further. Islam's only chance here in the U.K. Is to rid, completely, any forum possible for such views. You will never be able to counter everything, but a real removal from these locations of radicalisation is a huge step in the right direction. It begs the question why we still need to say these things though, because be under no liberal lovey illusion, there is still plenty of radical views across mosques and single Muslim faith schools.

 

Of note, do you all remember under Blairs watch all those allowed to preach radical Islam hate on the street corners of our towns and cities. I remember being so sickened it was accepted by the then government as their right to hate, surpassed any impact it could have. The seeds for all this were planted years ago.

 

Simply put, Muslims are the only ones to root out the evil within in their religion. The ball is firmly in their court.

 

#endthelovehashtags

[Tielemans63]

I think it's important to differentiate these evil nutcases from Muslims an masse. I'm not going to lie, there are a number of elements of Islam that don't sit well with me at all but these guys are extremists and Islam is the vehicle. They're no more representative of the vast majority of Muslims than the EDL are representative of Christians. Important not to demonise innocent people who have done nothing wrong.

 

That said, I think the Muslim community could and should be doing more because a lot people must know or hear things that they shouldn't be ignoring let alone tolerating.

[Charl91]

2 minutes ago, The Floyd said:

I'm not sure that's true. The 2011 census found that 59.5% of the population were Christian, whilst 25.7% declared themselves as having no religion. I'd be very surprised to see that much of a shift in 6 years. 

I went by this, though I can't vouch for its accuracy.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/religion-uk-atheists-christians_uk_5743fd38e4b0ffced862a51d

[Russell sprout]

1 minute ago, hejammy said:

Check out the history of these "bad Muslims" your line of you don't know if they are good or bad before they blow themselves up is ridiculous. They all have history of crime, drugs and general hate. 

When do you find that out though,after they've blew themselves up,the point I'm making to you is if you walked past them in the street,or stood next to them in a shop,there just another Muslim to you,not a terrorist 

[Charl91]

3 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Muslim isn't a race. But it can be banned in this country

 

Right, so you're just going to ban Islam then. Brilliant solution. Problem solved. Why did no one ever think of doing that before?

[sylofox]

9 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

See, now this is racism. Of course they care. 

 

The vast majority of Muslims in this country absolutely condone this shite. Think about possibly getting to know some, and ask them yourself. Also, the terrorists mostly attack indiscriminately. Do you think the manchester bomber decided to have a look round to see if there were any Muslims were there before blowing himself up? What about the London bombers? What about the bombings around the world, the majority of the victims for which are Muslims?

 

We all hate terrorism, but you're being irrational, and quite frankly talking bollocks. 

Quite frankly everyone is allowed an opinion yours does not make you right. It also does not mean someone is talking bollox.

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, The Floyd said:

I'm not sure that's true. The 2011 census found that 59.5% of the population were Christian, whilst 25.7% declared themselves as having no religion. I'd be very surprised to see that much of a shift in 6 years. 

And how many of that 25% will get married in a church or have their kids baptised in a church or have a funeral in a church. It's alright saying you don't believe in god etc etc put when push comes to shove it's a different matter

[SheppyFox]

3 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

One option "amongst several" is to put into action this:

 

A) Phase one, temporary closure of any mosque/single faith school proven to either harbour or in any way be found promoting any form of radical hatred. A strong warning their communal environment needs to root out any radical views.

B) Phase two, indefinite closure if the same group of leaders, attendees continue to flounder the above first phase. 

 

If the Muslim community are really serious about what is going on, it will push the problem out of the mosques/schools and remove two forums for such views. The internet is clearly a huge area as well, but if every local mosque/faith schools rid itself of any potential radicalised views the chances of acceptance will reduce and not be able to manifest itself further. Islam's only chance here in the U.K. Is to rid, completely, any forum possible for such views. You will never be able to counter everything, but a real removal from these locations of radicalisation is a huge step in the right direction. It begs the question why we still need to say these things though, because be under no liberal lovey illusion, there is still plenty of radical views across mosques and single Muslim faith schools.

 

Of note, do you all remember under Blairs watch all those allowed to preach radical Islam hate on the street corners of our towns and cities. I remember being so sickened it was accepted by the then government as their right to hate, surpassed any impact it could have. The seeds for all this were planted years ago.

 

Simply put, Muslims are the only ones to root out the evil within in their religion. The ball is firmly in their court.

 

#endthelovehashtags

Too much common sense there my good man, unacceptable. Besides, what happens if you offend someone?

[Charl91]

5 minutes ago, sylofox said:

Quite frankly everyone is allowed an opinion yours does not make you right. It also does not mean someone is talking bollox.

 

No. But if they're talking bollocks, then that means they're talking bollocks.

 

Saying 95% of Muslims in this country don't care about terrorist attacks is absolutely talking bollocks.

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, Charl91 said:

 

Right, so you're just going to ban Islam then. Brilliant solution. Problem solved. Why did no one ever think of doing that before?

You forgot to add the in this country bit.

[Charl91]

Just now, yorkie1999 said:

You forgot to add the in this country bit.

 

Brilliant. Ban Islam in this country. Amazing idea. Wow. Yeah, that'll solve everything.

 

Why not ban murder? That'd be a better idea too! We could even ban blowing people up! Fantastic!

 

 

 

[hejammy]

1 minute ago, Russell sprout said:

When do you find that out though,after they've blew themselves up,the point I'm making to you is if you walked past them in the street,or stood next to them in a shop,there just another Muslim to you,not a terrorist 

But is it your job to spot them? The real pussy footing around is by the intelligence units. Most of these terrorists fit a particular profile. A "Muslim" with a very troubled past. Usually very impressionable, has a history of drugs, violence, general hate crimes, unsettled childhood. Take these kids off the street and rehabilite them. At the moment their "rehabilitation" is done by hate preachers here and thousands of miles away. 

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

 

No. But if they're talking bollocks, and that means they're talking bollocks.

 

Saying 95% of Muslims in this country don't care about terrorist attacks is absolutely talking bollocks.

Whilst I agree, it is bollox. We have absolutely no idea who cares and who doesn't.

[yorkie1999]

Just now, Charl91 said:

 

Brilliant. Ban Islam in this country. Amazing idea. Wow. Yeah, that'll solve everything.

 

Why not ban murder? That'd be a better idea too! We could even ban blowing people up! Fantastic!

 

 

 

Well they are both kinda against the law

[Charl91]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Well they are both kinda against the law

 

Great. Step one on the way to solving the problem. Now how do you propose to implement your ingenious idea of banning Islam in this country?

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Well they are both kinda against the law

And they still happen......which is kind of the point he is making.

[foxes_rule1978]

8 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

One option "amongst several" is to put into action this:

 

A) Phase one, temporary closure of any mosque/single faith school proven to either harbour or in any way be found promoting any form of radical hatred. A strong warning their communal environment needs to root out any radical views.

B) Phase two, indefinite closure if the same group of leaders, attendees continue to flounder the above first phase. 

 

If the Muslim community are really serious about what is going on, it will push the problem out of the mosques/schools and remove two forums for such views. The internet is clearly a huge area as well, but if every local mosque/faith schools rid itself of any potential radicalised views the chances of acceptance will reduce and not be able to manifest itself further. Islam's only chance here in the U.K. Is to rid, completely, any forum possible for such views. You will never be able to counter everything, but a real removal from these locations of radicalisation is a huge step in the right direction. It begs the question why we still need to say these things though, because be under no liberal lovey illusion, there is still plenty of radical views across mosques and single Muslim faith schools.

 

Of note, do you all remember under Blairs watch all those allowed to preach radical Islam hate on the street corners of our towns and cities. I remember being so sickened it was accepted by the then government as their right to hate, surpassed any impact it could have. The seeds for all this were planted years ago.

 

Simply put, Muslims are the only ones to root out the evil within in their religion. The ball is firmly in their court.

 

#endthelovehashtags

This I agree with, we know the vast majority of Muslims aren't evil, but we also know that those who are carrying out the attacks are Muslim. Innocent Muslims certainly shouldn't have a problem with such measures and realise why such actions should take place.