Sharpe's Fox Posted 4 February 2018 Posted 4 February 2018 3 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Sadly if history has proven anything it is that organised religion, when well embedded within a nation, tends to be pretty difficult to shift, for better or worse. Only the left can win those battles.
Countryfox Posted 4 February 2018 Posted 4 February 2018 5 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said: Which party do you support again Wymes ? ...
leicsmac Posted 4 February 2018 Posted 4 February 2018 5 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Only the left can win those battles. Yeah, but hopefully without merely replacing a God with a person or Party who thinks they are one - which is as bad.
Buce Posted 4 February 2018 Posted 4 February 2018 'Be optimistic': Andrew Adonis launches his drive to reverse Brexit https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/04/andrew-adonis-launches-drive-reverse-brexit-second-referendum
Sharpe's Fox Posted 4 February 2018 Posted 4 February 2018 Classic “the electorate need another say” says the man who has never been elected to anything. Not for lack of trying since he switched parties so people would vote for him, which went on to never happen anyway. 1 1
Strokes Posted 4 February 2018 Posted 4 February 2018 1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Classic “the electorate need another say” says the man who has never been elected to anything. Not for lack of trying since he switched parties so people would vote for him, which went on to never happen anyway. Adonis is a self serving cùnt, which is probably why it’s no suprise he will do anything to keep us in the EU.
Guest Posted 4 February 2018 Posted 4 February 2018 Hardly any words left. If this is TM and Jeremy *unt's idea of planning for winter, god help us on their bad days. Hospitals cancelling urgent surgery despite NHS bosses' orders https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/04/hospitals-cancelling-urgent-surgery-despite-nhs-bosses-orders-england-cancer-heart-operations?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Jon the Hat Posted 4 February 2018 Posted 4 February 2018 8 minutes ago, toddybad said: Hardly any words left. If this is TM and Jeremy *unt's idea of planning for winter, god help us on their bad days. Hospitals cancelling urgent surgery despite NHS bosses' orders https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/04/hospitals-cancelling-urgent-surgery-despite-nhs-bosses-orders-england-cancer-heart-operations?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard If they don’t have critical care beds for people who will need them post surgery, ordering them to do the surgery anyway is nonsense no? Clearly you don’t operate in such circumstances. 1
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 5 February 2018 Author Posted 5 February 2018 The Mail asked on Friday “Is this via son against men?” My answer to that question: https://articulatelive.wordpress.com/2018/02/05/the-mail-asks-is-this-a-case-of-bias-against-men-what-do-you-think/
Guest Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 7 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: If they don’t have critical care beds for people who will need them post surgery, ordering them to do the surgery anyway is nonsense no? Clearly you don’t operate in such circumstances. 15,000 beds have been cut in the last 6 years.
Jon the Hat Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, toddybad said: 15,000 beds have been cut in the last 6 years. Yes indeed, although that is not a true measure of capacity, there is no doubt things are very very tight. My point was that criticism of the cancellatio decisions was daft in this context. Edited 5 February 2018 by Jon the Hat
RumbleFox Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 Does anyone on here actually like Rees-Mogg and think they would vote for him? If so, what is it about his policies/beliefs you like?
Webbo Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 Just now, RumbleFox said: Does anyone on here actually like Rees-Mogg and think they would vote for him? If so, what is it about his policies/beliefs you like? I would, because he's pro brexit and not Labour. 1
RumbleFox Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 Just now, Webbo said: I would, because he's pro brexit and not Labour. Are there any things that you worry about though? Some of his voting history is rather depressing? I never usually come on this thread but would ike to get involved but I want to talk rationally and reasonably and listen to both sides so in no way am I trying to start arguments or belittle anyone or anything here, I just want to understand viewpoints very different from my own as I think it is important.
Webbo Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 Just now, RumbleFox said: Are there any things that you worry about though? Some of his voting history is rather depressing? I never usually come on this thread but would ike to get involved but I want to talk rationally and reasonably and listen to both sides so in no way am I trying to start arguments or belittle anyone or anything here, I just want to understand viewpoints very different from my own as I think it is important. There's a lot of Labour are proposing that worries me. Which policies has JRM advocated that you don't like?
RumbleFox Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 Just now, Webbo said: There's a lot of Labour are proposing that worries me. Which policies has JRM advocated that you don't like? Well, two things here, firstly could you please quote the part of my post where I advocated voting Labour? Secondly..... He has voted consistently AGAINST: Gay Marriage Gay Equal Rights Human Rights Increasing Welfare Long Term disability pay Spending money to create jobs for young people He has also voted FOR: Reducing Housing Benefits A reduction in Welfare Benefits I wont go on as I am being a bit boring but his voting record is an interesting read..... https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes Are the above things you generally agree with? 2
Webbo Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 Just now, RumbleFox said: Well, two things here, firstly could you please quote the part of my post where I advocated voting Labour? Secondly..... He has voted consistently AGAINST: Gay Marriage Gay Equal Rights Human Rights Increasing Welfare Long Term disability pay Spending money to create jobs for young people He has also voted FOR: Reducing Housing Benefits A reduction in Welfare Benefits I wont go on as I am being a bit boring but his voting record is an interesting read..... https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes Are the above things you generally agree with? Some of those things I'm for some I'm against. I could equally say to you are you in favour, like John McDonell of honouring IRA murderers? He's not proposed banning gay marriage, he's voted against because of his religious views, which is allowed. 1
RumbleFox Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: Some of those things I'm for some I'm against. I could equally say to you are you in favour, like John McDonell of honouring IRA murderers? He's not proposed banning gay marriage, he's voted against because of his religious views, which is allowed. I just wondered why people seem to be drawn to him and again, where have I said, using quotes, that I vote Labour or would vote for John McDonell? I am simply asking questions here as I am confused as to why "normal people" (ie not the "very rich" would vote for someone like him). Also, he has definitely voted against equal rights for gay people and definitely voted against gay marriage before it was installed. May I ask why "religion" should be an allowable excuse for prejudice? If someone voted FOR say (and I amusing an extreme example here) voting FOR killing your children if they are unruly and then said it should be allowed purely "because of their religion" would that be OK? Edited 5 February 2018 by RumbleFox
Alf Bentley Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 I presume May will go before the next election, but do the Tories want her to be overthrown now or to go later, once Brexit is further advanced? @Webbo @MattP @Jon the Hat Do you expect her to go if there is a challenge - and who'd you like to take over, if so? Despite the growing discontent, I wonder if she'll hang on again? With this formulation of "out of the Customs Union, out of a Customs Union, but in a Customs Arrangement", might she keep both Hard Brexiteers and Tory Remainers onside a while longer? Obviously, a crisis may then arise if - or when - the EU make it clear that they won't do a deal on such terms: UK having near-frictionless trade with EU, but free to undercut the EU via trade deals with other countries. If the EU are serious about wanting to know where the UK is going post-Brexit before agreeing the transition deal, that crisis could happen in the next 2 months.....so that might encourage the Hard Brexit lot to gun for her immediately? But would the Tories end up with a Hard Brexit leader if they overthrow May? Doubtless the members would vote for one, but a Hard Brexit candidate would have to be placed in the final 2 by Tory MPs first.....might Tory MPs put 2 candidates to the members who were NOT Hard Brexit?
Webbo Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 1 minute ago, RumbleFox said: I just wondered why people seem to be drawn for him and again, where have I said, using quotes, that I vote Labour or would vote for John McDonell? I am simply asking questions here as I am confused as to why "normal people" (ie not the "very rich" would vote for someone like him. Also, he has definitely voted against equal rights for gay people and definitely voted against gay marriage before it was installed. May I ask why "religion" should be an allowable excuse for prejudice? If someone voted FOR say (and I amusing an extreme example here) voting FOR killing your children if they are unruly and then said it should be allowed purely "because of their religion" would that be OK? The IRA did kill children so why would anyone vote for someone who supported them? so much of the argument on here is "your party did this, you should be ashamed of yourself" without any look at why these things were done, what the alternative was and ignoring what things their party has done? It's why this thread is such a bore now.
RumbleFox Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 Just now, Webbo said: The IRA did kill children so why would anyone vote for someone who supported them? so much of the argument on here is "your party did this, you should be ashamed of yourself" without any look at why these things were done, what the alternative was and ignoring what things their party has done? It's why this thread is such a bore now. I think you seem to be replying to someone other than me? I have no idea what you are referring to in relation to my posts. Why are you obsessed with the IRA, where have I mentioned them or mentioned voting Labour? I am genuinely confused by your reaction to what I think were reasonable questions to post on a politics thread which has recently discussed Rees-Mogg. Apologies if I have become a bore but I honestly am confused by your response. Thank you though, all feedback is appreciated. 2 2
Webbo Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 4 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: I presume May will go before the next election, but do the Tories want her to be overthrown now or to go later, once Brexit is further advanced? @Webbo @MattP @Jon the Hat Do you expect her to go if there is a challenge - and who'd you like to take over, if so? Despite the growing discontent, I wonder if she'll hang on again? With this formulation of "out of the Customs Union, out of a Customs Union, but in a Customs Arrangement", might she keep both Hard Brexiteers and Tory Remainers onside a while longer? Obviously, a crisis may then arise if - or when - the EU make it clear that they won't do a deal on such terms: UK having near-frictionless trade with EU, but free to undercut the EU via trade deals with other countries. If the EU are serious about wanting to know where the UK is going post-Brexit before agreeing the transition deal, that crisis could happen in the next 2 months.....so that might encourage the Hard Brexit lot to gun for her immediately? But would the Tories end up with a Hard Brexit leader if they overthrow May? Doubtless the members would vote for one, but a Hard Brexit candidate would have to be placed in the final 2 by Tory MPs first.....might Tory MPs put 2 candidates to the members who were NOT Hard Brexit? I don't think there'll be a change in leadership anytime soon. Whoever takes over has to deal with the fact they have no majority. When TM does go it'll have to go to the membership this time which means it'll probably be a brexiteer. I'm not sure that JRM wants to stand so it'll probably be Boris.
Webbo Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 1 minute ago, RumbleFox said: I think you seem to be replying to someone other than me? I have no idea what you are referring to in relation to my posts. Why are you obsessed with the IRA, where have I mentioned them or mentioned voting Labour? I am genuinely confused by your reaction to what I think were reasonable questions to post on a politics thread which has recently discussed Rees-Mogg. Apologies if I have become a bore but I honestly am confused by your response. Thank you though, all feedback is appreciated. I'm not calling you a bore and I didn't mean to imply that, but that is the general tone of this thread lately. If people like JRM then they're entitled to. Not all us dislike people because they're posh.
Alf Bentley Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: I don't think there'll be a change in leadership anytime soon. Whoever takes over has to deal with the fact they have no majority. When TM does go it'll have to go to the membership this time which means it'll probably be a brexiteer. I'm not sure that JRM wants to stand so it'll probably be Boris. Has the system for electing a Tory leader changed since last time? Last time, Tory MPs had to vote for the 2 candidates to be put to the membership. The only reason that it didn't go to the members was because Leadsom (selected with May) pulled out, didn't she?
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